The Serious 9/11 Arguments Compilation.

a reply to: Jesushere

How could you even time an implosion by corrosion to make it look like the WTC 7’s collapse? To manny variables.

waypastvne These are images of steel cut by thermite.

You see it sliced through the beam and drippings poured down from it


Thermite again did this damage.


WTC7 steel image FEMA produced look similar to this.


I would not claim the first image is positive proof of a thermite reaction. There could be another explanation like we know workers at the WTC site were cutting steel to break it down to smaller sizes to take away to dump sites. The cuts are just unusual in the first image and steel was melted by extreme heat.

FEMA image that cannot be explained naturally. Heat+ chemistry done that to steel. The best explanation right now is nano termite did that as the heat in WTC7 was not hot enough.

a reply to: Jesushere

You are expecting people to debunk a photo you will not even cite it’s source?

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: Jesushere
neutronflux Are you not happy the image was uploaded on a The Skeptic site? Problem is though they skipped past talking about damage on the side of the box column. The just talk about the column length and size and if broke or not.

You clearly see the side has been pushed out it expanded. I would not rule it out this is where they placed the nano-thermite or explosives?

Like something was pulled through or off the column? Like a floor connection?

Funny you cannot find example of WTC steel worked on by demolitions? With no burns, cut ends, or the steel blown out vs pulled into the center?

The floors were attached to the spandrel so unlikely.

You see an example here.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Jesushere

You are expecting people to debunk a photo you will not even cite it’s source?

I already have done but as per usual you did not bother to even watch the video of thermite experiments I posted. So don't blame me when you're confused about the source.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Jesushere

You

The building experienced freefall

The exterior facade fell at the acceleration of free fall in phase two of its collapse because the exterior columns offered negligible resistance.

The interior of WTC did not fall as a single unit as proven by the order items on the roof disappeared below the roof line.

The interior was a progressive collapse from east to west.

The facade did not began to fall until one of the WTC 7’s penthouse totally fell out sight below the roofline.

Once all of WTC 7’s interior columns buckled, then the facade then collapsed.

Thermite is used to weld metal in the field. It does not cause corrosions that would cause a building’s collapse in hours. If thermite causes catastrophic corrosions, it would be impractical to use as a welding agent.

How does a steel girder fall of its seat when it had 30 shear studs, girder fasteners, and web plate stiffener this would have stopped lateral movements?. Do you not think it's odd they removed things from a girder to make their collapse model work? There no way around NIST released a fraudulent study of the collapse. What they claim took place at stage 2 is false. Their computer simulation does even match the actual collapse view on the north side.

How do you not see this is a problem?

a reply to: Jesushere

When there is no proof of thermite at the WTC. When you have no results of a test proving the WTC dust was capable of a thermite reaction. When you are saying the WTC was corroded into collapse? When you cannot post video or photographic evidence of exterior columns that supposedly had to be cut in such away that the resistance of each floor of each building had to be removed to achieve the witnessed rates of collapse. When you cannot explain how thermite which burns relatively slow and inconsistently could be used in a sophisticated split time fantasy implosions. How slow burning thermite could cut vertically, and how the slow cuts would not jest cold weld together under building load. How the implosion system survived jet impacts, building damage, and wide spread fires. How did the charges get placed on what is essentially the walls of the towers. There was no evidence of columns cut by demolitions found by the forensic and engineering crime scene investigators. The vertical columns of the twin towers fell in the wake of their floor systems. You cannot explain the collapse of the twin towers started at the areas of the jet impacts with inward bowing that lead to outer columns buckling as captured on video.

Building 5 on 9/11 engulfed in fire and never collapsed. Yet WTC7 with its few areas of fire did it.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Jesushere

When there is no proof of thermite at the WTC. When you have no results of a test proving the WTC dust was capable of a thermite reaction. When you are saying the WTC was corroded into collapse? When you cannot post video or photographic evidence of exterior columns that supposedly had to be cut in such away that the resistance of each floor of each building had to be removed to achieve the witnessed rates of collapse. When you cannot explain how thermite which burns relatively slow and inconsistently could be used in a sophisticated split time fantasy implosions. How slow burning thermite could cut vertically, and how the slow cuts would not jest cold weld together under building load. How the implosion system survived jet impacts, building damage, and wide spread fires. How did the charges get placed on what is essentially the walls of the towers. There was no evidence of columns cut by demolitions found by the forensic and engineering crime scene investigators. The vertical columns of the twin towers fell in the wake of their floor systems. You cannot explain the collapse of the twin towers started at the areas of the jet impacts with inward bowing that lead to outer columns buckling as captured on video.

False. Numerous qualified scientists have agreed Harrit found nano-thermite. One scientist said something different Dr Milette. who we know to be not free from bias as he was directly involved in the official study of WTC dust.

False. Red/grey chips were found with all the key ingredients to make nano-thermite. Is paint cutting holes in steel is that your claim? FEMA was trying to understand why the steel had holes in it. They naturally, and I don't blame them, speculated the steel was corroded by high temp + sulphur way back in 2002. If they had looked at the obvious alternative thermate we be talking about this very differently today. Prof Harrit findings have introduced a new substance called nano-thermite.

False. Nobody can as we don't see what happens inside the building internally. Are you not forgetting these columns have to buckle to fall anyways if NIST theory right. Do you see this from the outside? So why you so convinced the columns were not removed by explosives? Remember WTC7 videos are recorded far off in the distance. The one video from the north side does pick up a very loud bang a second before the Penthouse fell in. Could there have been other bangs before this? You can't rule it out because the video does not run for a long time before the collapse?

Nanothermite you can not make at home. It's a new chemistry incendiary and only a government lab would have access to it? We understand thermite can cut through steel though that's clear as day. Thermite doe not burn slow the igniting is fast and rapid. I never saw nanothermite explode on steel but I presume it will have done more damage than thermite.

Dr Hulsey had created a computer simulation of the actual collapse. When he work comes out we will have a better idea of how the building fell down and if explosives would have been needed too.

False Box Columns have slots and holes you don't have to cut through the steel to plant explosives. Nano thermite could have been sprayed on steel or gelled on that a fairly easy process. Or could have been stored in something in rooms on floors?

originally posted by: Jesushere
Building 5 on 9/11 engulfed in fire and never collapsed. Yet WTC7 with its few areas of fire did it.

Was it built like WTC 7? With odd floor connections? A tall entrance gallery? Long floor spans with no mid supports? Did it have concrete columns!

a reply to: Jesushere

And yet you cannot cite where they had a lab independently verify the presence of thermite in their dust to complete an ethical discovery process. And you cannot name one test they ran that with results that shows there dust could support a thermite reaction.

You

False Box Columns have slots and holes you don't have to cut through the steel to plant explosives. Nano thermite could have been sprayed on steel or gelled on that a fairly easy process. Or could have been stored in something in rooms on floors?

One, that would do crap in a thin layer. Two, the columns were insulated. So a layer of thermite would do what?
Three, the truth movement claims the vertical columns had to be cut vertically in such a way the resistance of the columns had to be removed floor by floor.

neutronflux

Do you not notice the breaking of glass runs up the wall on the northside not downwards from the roof. That's a controlled demolition. You removing resistance below so the building falls freely down. If it was a natural collapse the windows would puff and be blowing out at the top, as the building moved in a downward trajectory to the ground.

a reply to: Jesushere

You

Do you not notice the breaking of glass runs up the wall on the northside not downwards from the roof. That's a controlled demolition.

Really? Then it should easy to to find a past implosion that did the same thing?

All that precise timing from corrosion bombs? With no proof of explosives cutting exterior columns.

Pity.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Jesushere

You

Do you not notice the breaking of glass runs up the wall on the northside not downwards from the roof. That's a controlled demolition.

Really? Then it should easy to to find a past implosion that did the same thing?

All that precise timing from corrosion bombs? With no proof of explosives cutting exterior columns.

Pity.

Yes really you clearly see the breaking of windows went upwards to the top west wall on right side. If building 7 was falling down naturally the support would be falling away at the top, not at the bottom

That line ran up the wall is evidence of timed removal of core and perimeter columns. The building falls, remove the delay beneath no deformations clean collapse clearly a well-timed demolition.

a reply to: Jesushere

That line ran up the wall is evidence of timed removal of core and perimeter columns.

Dude just stop.
If there was verifiable proof of CD on the internet, it would have been raised to national prominence.
After 17 years just give it up.

originally posted by: Jesushere

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Jesushere

You

Do you not notice the breaking of glass runs up the wall on the northside not downwards from the roof. That's a controlled demolition.

Really? Then it should easy to to find a past implosion that did the same thing?

All that precise timing from corrosion bombs? With no proof of explosives cutting exterior columns.

Pity.

Yes really you clearly see the breaking of windows went upwards to the top west wall on right side. If building 7 was falling down naturally the support would be falling away at the top, not at the bottom

That line ran up the wall is evidence of timed removal of core and perimeter columns. The building falls, remove the delay beneath no deformations clean collapse clearly a well-timed demolition.

What do we gather from the video?

I here voices from the crowed for the entire collapse. The collapse was never loud enough to drowned out voices?

How loud did you say the collapse of the building was? That it would drown out the 130 dB sound of explosives setting off? A normal restaurant is usually no louder than 85 dB? And the video you showed has conversation that could be heard well into the collapse. Why didn’t the collapse initiation of the penthouse startle the individuals holding a conversation?

So, no detonations of explosives that could cut steel.

No evidence of explosives blowing crap out windows, and no evidence of over pressure events.

You claim the resistance of the exterior columns had to be removed to cause the facade to accelerate at the rate of free fall? I would take that to mean the columns would have to be cut floor by floor? And how long would it take to cut columns vertically if possible with thermite? It has been proven thermite is not efficient at all cutting columns vertically. There is no sparking and flashing indicative of large thermite charges burning for a minute window by window, floor by floor.

I see the penthouse starting to sink in to WTC 7. About 10 to 15 floors down, I see simultaneous disturbances in windows from steel buckling. There really is no traveling up. It’s like a central disturbance is seen in a cluster of windows, then the disturbance radiates from the original cluster of windows.

And I see no evidence indicative of thermite cutting columns on any floor such as sparking and flashing from window to window, from floor to floor.

I see evidence that a progressive collapse started on the left side of the building in the video, and that progressive collapse traveled to the right. Again no evidence of thermite flashing and sparking.

Then I see the facade fall. Again, no evidence of sparking and flashing of exterior columns being cut by thermite from window to window, from floor to floor? I think the picture you showed way back in this thread showed the interior of WTC 7, and it’s columns that would be in clear sight of the windows?

originally posted by: Jesushere
Building 5 on 9/11 engulfed in fire and never collapsed. Yet WTC7 with its few areas of fire did it.

Would you like to acknowledge another false argument by you. Below is all the facts on WTC 5

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Floors 4–9 suffered partial collapse and/or fire damage as a result of the September 11 attacks. Floors 1–3 were not damaged. The building's structural integrity on its upper floors were partially compromised due to the impact of steel and other debris from the North Tower. Other collapsed sections were due to fire damage. Portions of internal collapse and burnout were found on upper floors, mainly floors 6–8. The black exterior facade suffered severe fire damage. Floors 5–9 were on fire after the collapse of the South Tower

a reply to: Jesushere

I would also say if thermite could burn through a column vertically, and load did not push the cut gaps together to result in cold welds of the ends together, it probably would take more like 4 minuets to cut through a column?

a reply to: Jesushere

Your response to this should be a hoot?

As so eloquently put by Steve S, the author of the linked to opening post, mythbusters could not cut a 4,000 lbs SUV in half with 1,000 lbs of thermite laying on the vehicle horizontally.

The thread...

www.internationalskeptics.com...

Mythbuster inadvertently debunk thermite at WTC.

In tonight's episode of the Mythbusters, they tried to cut an SUV in half using thermite. Jamie mixed up a thousand pounds of thermite in a cement mixer, bagged it, then placed it along the centerline of the truck. They also used bricks on either side to try to confine it to the middle. They didn't succeed in cutting it in half. Now if 1000 pounds can't cut a 4000 thousand pound SUV in half, there's no way you could bring down a building weighing millions of pounds without completely filling the building with the stuff.

Steve S.

1000 lbs of thermite Melt SUV
m.youtube.com...

And before you invoke super thermite, isn’t your claim super thermite burns at lower temps?

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: Jesushere

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Jesushere

You

Do you not notice the breaking of glass runs up the wall on the northside not downwards from the roof. That's a controlled demolition.

Really? Then it should easy to to find a past implosion that did the same thing?

All that precise timing from corrosion bombs? With no proof of explosives cutting exterior columns.

Pity.

Yes really you clearly see the breaking of windows went upwards to the top west wall on right side. If building 7 was falling down naturally the support would be falling away at the top, not at the bottom

That line ran up the wall is evidence of timed removal of core and perimeter columns. The building falls, remove the delay beneath no deformations clean collapse clearly a well-timed demolition.

What do we gather from the video?

I here voices from the crowed for the entire collapse. The collapse was never loud enough to drowned out voices?

How loud did you say the collapse of the building was? That it would drown out the 130 dB sound of explosives setting off? A normal restaurant is usually no louder than 85 dB? And the video you showed has conversation that could be heard well into the collapse. Why didn’t the collapse initiation of the penthouse startle the individuals holding a conversation?

So, no detonations of explosives that could cut steel.

No evidence of explosives blowing crap out windows, and no evidence of over pressure events.

You claim the resistance of the exterior columns had to be removed to cause the facade to accelerate at the rate of free fall? I would take that to mean the columns would have to be cut floor by floor? And how long would it take to cut columns vertically if possible with thermite? It has been proven thermite is not efficient at all cutting columns vertically. There is no sparking and flashing indicative of large thermite charges burning for a minute window by window, floor by floor.

I see the penthouse starting to sink in to WTC 7. About 10 to 15 floors down, I see simultaneous disturbances in windows from steel buckling. There really is no traveling up. It’s like a central disturbance is seen in a cluster of windows, then the disturbance radiates from the original cluster of windows.

And I see no evidence indicative of thermite cutting columns on any floor such as sparking and flashing from window to window, from floor to floor.

I see evidence that a progressive collapse started on the left side of the building in the video, and that progressive collapse traveled to the right. Again no evidence of thermite flashing and sparking.

Then I see the facade fall. Again, no evidence of sparking and flashing of exterior columns being cut by thermite from window to window, from floor to floor? I think the picture you showed way back in this thread showed the interior of WTC 7, and it’s columns that would be in clear sight of the windows?

Did you hear the noise when floors were falling on any video? Did you hear the crashing noise of steel and girders inside the building? You did not hear that, did you?

The video was made blocks away from the scene. Did you not notice the buildings in front? For a loud bang to be picked up by audio had to very loud. The floors and steel collapsing were not heard on this video at all. The noise was before the Penthouse caved in. The Penthouse to fall through floor resistance beneath was gone. But that noise could be a timed demolition on the east side?

You can clearly see when the West corner right wall started to fall a line of windows blew out and started from the bottom up to the top end. It did not break at the top then down. That's a sign of controlled demolition. The columns have been synchronised to break beneath as the building fell from the top section. Pressure events are puffs of smoke coming out windows or you referring to something else?

NIST created this progression collapse theory there no historical precedent for it. There no reason to believe it's true even more when there is evidence NIST did not include shear studs 30 on the girder, a Web Stiffener plate and girder fasteners in their collapse model study. That's not acceptable.

Do you notice there no fires on the east side on floor 12 are out and fires on floor 13 very little and fires are moving to the west they fires are looking for items to burn.


Floor 8 has the most light fires,

A NIST graphic pays attention to the 4 pm one it shows hot fires on floor 13 where column 79 was. Floor 12 is column 44 hot fires. The image above was taken at around 4 pm.


Notice NIST claims very hot fires were still blazing on floor 12 at 4 pm that's a lie and you have photographic evidence that shows that clearly