The Serious 9/11 Arguments Compilation.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Jesushere

Let’s sum up you argument again.

You have not provided any video or photographic evidence of cut columns initiating a collapse at the WTC from CD systems supposedly taking out the resistance of each floor.

You have not provided any video or photographic evidence of cut columns from CD systems that supposedly cut columns on each floor.

Your proof of thermite in WTC dust is from a pay to play journal that published an unethically peer reviewed paper by bypassing the paper’s referee. And one of the peer reviewers help to create the paper.

A paper that claims thermite because of aluminum oxide, so there had to be free aluminum for a thermite reaction. And an exothermic reaction. Without containing one result from an analysis that would actually prove thermite. As in trying to burn the chips in an oxygen free atmosphere.

Chips that are basically epoxy industrial coatings with pigments and clays found in industrial paint. Items that have no use in a thermite reaction.

All from people that never pursued having independent labs confirm the presence of thermite to complete the paper’s discovery process.

Without any explanation why there would be thermite chips in the WTC dust anyway?

While nobody else’s can find the free aluminum required for a thermite reaction in WTC dust.

Then you claim thermite because of thermal imaging, even though you cannot produce any evidence of thermal imaging capturing 4,000 F temps from thermite burning.

So you invoked corrosion and claim sulfur from the supposed thermite, but your cited paper never claimed active thermate. It only claimed thermite with some of the chips containing sulfur. The cited paper only mentions sulfur once in the actual text.

And your bases for the corrosion is only from NIST samples. NIST who you claim is not reliable, unless you can find some of their secondary evidence to use out of context for arguments based on pseudoscience. Samples that according to you should not exist because you claimed all the WTC steel was sent to China without being sampled and analyzed?

You are a contradictory wreck of BS and falsehoods.

And you support groups like AE? A group that collected donations for a promised WTC 7 evaluation project who’s finally release date has came and gone, and is now on indefinate hold. A study that was going to prove something other than WTC 7 fire collapse. The study didn’t sound like a biased bought piece of work at all, not. While the a actual claim by NIST for WTC 7 is fire induced uneven heating that caused stain that resulted in the breaking of the floor connections. The broken floor connections caused columns to lose lateral support, and made them susceptible to buckling.

While there are at least three other studies that conclude fire related collapse of WTC 7. One of those studies being a sworn deposition in a lawsuit.

False I have provided an image of thermite cutting through a steel member and leaving a cut out hole. Miss the other image of WTC7 steel? Did you do not notice the similar looking hole in both pictures?

Why the need for a CD setup if nano-thermite can rip through steel beams?

A false argument the paper has 10 co-authors one person had a complaint about something, not a big deal. If this paper was fraudulent why has Dr Milette not released his peer to peer rebuke which he had promised he would do in 2012? You don't complain about this much, do you now, why?

Dr Harrit found Elemental Aluminium he has released the tests that show that in his paper. How come he was respected before this and never had any complaints about his work in the past, but now his work is rubbished. Again false Chemist Mark Basille independent from Harrit also found elemental Al in the red/chips.

The only person claiming there was none is Dr Millette. A guy who did the official WTC dust study and was accused of covering up the dangers of the WTC dust by the mainstream press. Are you going to form your opinion based on what he has to say?

I already provided a quote about thermal imaging of the scene by helicopter on day one. That clearly referenced some areas had a temp of over 2000c.

I never invoked corrosion again a false statement. That's FEMA theory, not mine.

FEMA found holes in steel beams that evidence of a thermite reaction. NIST deliberately left out fittings that were on the girder at column 79 those fittings would prevent lateral movement thus stopping the girder coming off its seat. I Skeptics think it justs fine to remove things that were there during the construction of WTC7 columns, are you serious?

Hulsey WTC7 study and its final full report are scheduled for release in 2018. You swear he has not released anything since he started. He released an early draft of some things he found in 2017, maybe you just did bother to watch that or read what he said.

Was two studies yesterday, now jumped to three will actually name these studies you referring to you keep ignoring my request for further information on that.

a reply to: Jesushere

Start here
You

False I have provided an image of thermite cutting through a steel member and leaving a cut out hole. Miss the other image of WTC7 steel? Did you do not notice the similar looking hole in both pictures?

Post an actual photo of WTC 7 steel cut by thermite.

neutronflux

originally posted by: Jesushere
neutronflux

That is corroded steel that holds no evidence of being cut by thermite. And I bet the metallurgical analysis that goes with that picture shows a corrosion attach with no evidence of reaching temperatures of 4000f at which termite burns.

originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: Jesushere

Sorry but office & even house fires can reach 1100c the Cardington fire test done in the UK showed that.

Millions are spent on fire protection in every country if it wasn't a problem it wouldn't be done.

You don't understand enough about structures like most 9/11 armchair warriors.

Cardington fire test involved the use of gas burner in one test. The temp of 1000c was a flange temp. They also set up the test to make the fire to reach the highest temp it could the conditions were set accordingly.

The part you left out is even at high temps none of the steel beams failed or collapsed. Cardington fire test actually is confirmation that NIST is lying.

a reply to: Jesushere

You

Why the need for a CD setup if nano-thermite can rip through steel beams?

WTF

For the fantasy of thermite.

The truth movement claims the resistance of each floor had to be removed to achieve the witnessed collapse rate. The charges would have been placed on columns on each floor for the truth movement fantasy. That means a charge of thermite placed on columns big enough to cut through the columns. Some sort of container to direct the thermite, magnesium fuses, fuses to ignite the magnesium fuses, and a wired or remote detonator on each charge. Those items had to maintain there integrity through jet impacts, building damage, and wide spread fires.

Is that false.

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: Jesushere
neutronflux

That is corroded steel that holds no evidence of being cut by thermite. And I bet the metallurgical analysis that goes with that picture shows a corrosion attach with no evidence of reaching temperatures of 4000f at which termite burns.

Do you not realise Corrosion makes no sense. Have you examples of steel corroding and leaving holes after a fire of 400c go on I wait for your evidence.

Fireproofing Gypsum is corroding Steel is that your belief?

Harrit red/grey chips ignited at 430c and released a very high energy spike in the DSC test.

a reply to: Jesushere

What does that have to do with you trying to pass off corrosion of steel as cut by thermite with no proof steel reached temperatures thermite burns at?

a reply to: Jesushere

It’s been address, please address

WTF

For the fantasy of thermite.

The truth movement claims the resistance of each floor had to be removed to achieve the witnessed collapse rate. The charges would have been placed on columns on each floor for the truth movement fantasy. That means a charge of thermite placed on columns big enough to cut through the columns. Some sort of container to direct the thermite, magnesium fuses, fuses to ignite the magnesium fuses, and a wired or remote detonator on each charge. Those items had to maintain there integrity through jet impacts, building damage, and wide spread fires.

Is that false.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Jesushere

What does that have to do with you trying to pass off corrosion of steel as cut by thermite with no proof steel reached temperatures thermite burns at?

See this NIST quote I posted.
Due to the effectiveness of the spray-applied fire-resistive material (SFRM) or fireproofing, the highest steel column temperatures in WTC 7 only reached an estimated 300 degrees C (570 degrees F), and only on the east side of the building did the steel floor beams exceed 600 degrees C (1,100 degrees F). However, fire-induced buckling of floor beams and damage to connections-that caused buckling of a critical column initiating collapse-occurred at temperatures below approximately 400 degrees C where thermal expansion dominates

www.nist.gov...

600c max just for the east side and the rest of the building only experienced 300c at the steel. 400c heat leads to the girder failure at column 79.

Where in all this is corrosion going to occur? FEMA own theory says 1000c heat+ the sulphur resulted in melting of the steel

a reply to: Jesushere

So, you cannot provide actual evidence of thermite.

All you can do is take secondary evidence out of context. Create falsehoods around the secondary evidence.

And you cannot answer the question how thermite was even used for CD systems at the WTC?

a reply to: Jesushere

And you cannot provide evidence steel ever reached temperatures at which thermite burns at?

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Jesushere

It’s been address, please address

WTF

For the fantasy of thermite.

The truth movement claims the resistance of each floor had to be removed to achieve the witnessed collapse rate. The charges would have been placed on columns on each floor for the truth movement fantasy. That means a charge of thermite placed on columns big enough to cut through the columns. Some sort of container to direct the thermite, magnesium fuses, fuses to ignite the magnesium fuses, and a wired or remote detonator on each charge. Those items had to maintain there integrity through jet impacts, building damage, and wide spread fires.

Is that false.

The central core has only 24 columns each column extends up from the bottom floor to the top floor. The perimeter wall has 58 columns.

I not sure you even have to touch those 58 perimeter columns to cause a collapse. If the central core failed the floors are going to cascade down and bring the rest of the building down. Column 79 is a central core column on the east side.

You only have to place nano-thermite where the steel beam interlocks with the girder to initiate failure. What would you need fuses to ignite nano-thermite? All you need is fire.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Jesushere

And you cannot provide evidence steel ever reached temperatures at which thermite burns at?

You don't need a high temp to ignite nano-thermite. The DSC tests showed the red/grey chips ignited at very low temp and very high energy spike was picked up Harrit described as explosive.

Thermite yes you do need a high temp to ignite.

waypastvne The antenna on the roof of the WTC tower is where the collapse started.

Watch the actual video of the collapse, you see the central core is falling first, this drag in the floor trusses and the perimeter wall columns as it falls.

This image highlights what I think occurred and fits what you see on video.
The core is falling first and that's causing the bowing in



watch this keep eye on the antenna what falls first

a reply to: Jesushere

You

waypastvne The antenna on the roof of the WTC tower is where the collapse started.

False
Other camera angles shows it was leaning with the upper portion of the tower, and only stated to drop when the upper portion of the tower dropped because of the outer columns buckling.

Anymore falsehoods

a reply to: Jesushere

You

You don't need a high temp to ignite nano-thermite.

Then provide the chemical formula for the supposed low temperature igniting thermite, or do you mean paint chips.....

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Jesushere

You

waypastvne The antenna on the roof of the WTC tower is where the collapse started.

False
Other camera angles shows it was leaning, and only stated to drop when the upper portion of the tower dropped because of the outer columns buckling.

Anymore falsehoods

The top portion fell first because the central core hat truss failed. The video clearly shows that that explosion came later. The central core falling pulled in the floors trusses and the walls and then you got the fireball. The video does not lie.

originally posted by: Jesushere

Have you examples of steel corroding and leaving holes after a fire of 400c go on I wait for your evidence.

I do aluminum anodising. I have a tank of sulphuric acid that is going to be neutralised and emptied soon. If you want a hole corroded through a piece of A36 steel, I can do that for you, no problem. No fire needed.

a reply to: Jesushere

More blamtant falsehoods by you. Cite a source that makes such claims.

The collapse for each tower started at the areas of jet impacts. Some 11 and 29 stories down from the top of the towers.