Genealogical Website DNA Data Used to Nab Golden State Killer Suspect

a reply to: theantediluvian

Some of my family members and I had a discussion a while back about taking DNA tests. We opted not to do it for 2 reasons.

1) These DNA testing companies have laughably small sample sizes of African ethnic groups, which defeated the purpose for us.

2) We were all suspicious that the DNA samples and info would be kept, sold to, and used by companies, researchers, law enforcement branches, and various other govt agencies virtually forever (not just in this country).

So I'm not surprised by this story. If anything, I'm surprised that they allowed the public to know how they got the info. It's kind of like the CIA's fake vaccine program that supposedly led them to Bin Laden in Pakistan. The method itself isn't that surprising; the surprising part is that they let the world know that's how they supposedly did it.

ETA: After reading some of the comments in this thread, I now think I understand why they released this info. I'd completely overlooked the fact that some people would willingly trade their own info and rights in exchange for a sense of security. So it makes sense that they'd use this incident to boost support for law enforcement keeping everyone's DNA on record.

Now the tinfoil-hat-wearer in me wonders if they really used DNA info to track this guy in the first place. It's something that also bothered me about my above example of the CIA's fake vaccine program being used to track Bin Laden. I wondered why they would release that info because it would let their enemies know their methods, which would theoretically make it easier for their enemies to counter those methods. But part of me wondered if that story was a lie and was just used to cover up their real methods for tracking people or to provide cover to specific informants who may have been the real reason the CIA was supposedly able to track him.

a reply to: TobyFlenderson

In this case, the government did not actually have direct access to the DNA.

As I understand it, they did a DNA test using the DNA test of their suspect. This was done the same way that any person in the public would submit their DNA. The service they use, perhaps Ancestry.com, then compares your DNA to that submitted by others to locate your relatives who have also submitted tests. In this case, they were able to find the suspect by finding other close relatives.

This is unsettling.

It's good that they caught the evil bastard, but it is still unsettling.

a reply to: BlueAjah

I know how it happened and I believe this is the first time it's been done, or at least publicly acknowledged to have been done. I know it was done with an old missing person case (the "Buck Skin Girl" or something like that) but not identification of a victim, not a suspect. This is the crack in the door. See now that they know it can be done, they may have probable cause to ask a judge to order the DNA companies to turn over any close matches to a suspect's DNA. From there who knows how far they can push it? Also, with all the built in backdoors to Intel chips and the like, it's highly likely to me that the NSA has already hacked their way in and taken all the DNA files from those companies.

a reply to: TobyFlenderson

I highly doubt that they just started doing this.

originally posted by: Jefferton
Only on ATS would catching a rapist/killer be "alarming".

Oh boy.

Where did anyone say that? What's alarming is that they have access to peoples DNA info who were not even involved and how that could be abused in other situations, not this one.

I think everyone is thrilled that monster was caught. Why pretend otherwise?

originally posted by: BlueAjah
a reply to: Blaine91555

Anything that law enforcement can do to protect us from evil like that is fine with me.

In that lies the problem. I don't think there is any regulation that protects those who are not criminals privacy. Using fear to invade innocent peoples privacy can not be a offshoot of that and there is nothing to stop it now I'm aware of.

Information is power. Look at how the lack of laws dealing with things like emails has removed any semblance of privacy now. Look at how Facebook abused it's customers. This information will be misused and of that I'm certain. It will somehow harm innocent people in the name of safety like the Patriot Act, no real Patriot would have signed.

a reply to: theantediluvian

My takeaway was the same as yours on this story. In fact, my sister recently did one of these tests and I was very put off by it because she is using the *features* of sharing the info to try to find an unknown great great great grandfather. I feel like she is skating a fine line in terms of violating my privacy rights.

Not my choice or DNA...still feels very creepy though...

originally posted by: NarcolepticBuddha
a reply to: Blaine91555

I used to tell people like 10 years ago that the future would replace job applications with a facebook and DNA submission.

Looks like my vindication is not too far off!

It's going to happen, I agree. Even now as an employer I can easily gather information on anyone without much trouble and I should not be able to do that. I don't in fact. $8 and I have your whole life story without input from you that may be important. It's getting scary and I don't think people realize what's coming.

Of course, I'm happy he was caught, and was wondering how so after soo long. Privacy was an issue brought up when these DNA test kits began gaining traction. Sites don't even have to turn over data anymore as claimed by sources in the past(and said untrue for at least one that I posted). There's a growing number of third party DNA analysis sites with various search options, even available for free, just have yours(or others as in the OP) DNA results handy.

a reply to: theantediluvian

The BTK killer was caught in a similar manner. Police seized his daughter's pap smear. Yeah.

Enough MSM bullspit PLEASE...........these lazy incompetent collisional Cops and prosecutors and Investigators on ALL LEVELS are responsible for bungeling this case and are responsible for MANY LIVES....this monster should have and could have been stopped many years ago......and let KEEP THE RECORD STRAIGHT...if it were not for the unstoppable work of this woman who devoted her LIFE to bringing this man and the incompetent Cops et al who refused to be honest and diligent and stop him sooner....we would NEVER HAVE FOUND THE ANSWERS........

www.cbc.ca... -colleague-1.4636696

Michelle McNamara......REMEMBER HER NAME...she is a modern day HERO.....and it was HER WORK THAT SPURNED THE WHEELS OF JUSTICE TO BEGIN TURNING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

This is ATS...and when someone goes above and beyond the stats quo to FORCE JUSTICE TO BE FOUND...well this is a good place to set the record straight and give credit where credit is due....thank you Mrs.McNamara for your hard work comittment and dilligence in flushing out this monster...you are a humanitarian hero.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: theantediluvian

Some of my family members and I had a discussion a while back about taking DNA tests. We opted not to do it for 2 reasons.

1) These DNA testing companies have laughably small sample sizes of African ethnic groups, which defeated the purpose for us.

2) We were all suspicious that the DNA samples and info would be kept, sold to, and used by companies, researchers, law enforcement branches, and various other govt agencies virtually forever (not just in this country).

So I'm not surprised by this story. If anything, I'm surprised that they allowed the public to know how they got the info. It's kind of like the CIA's fake vaccine program that supposedly led them to Bin Laden in Pakistan. The method itself isn't that surprising; the surprising part is that they let the world know that's how they supposedly did it.

ETA: After reading some of the comments in this thread, I now think I understand why they released this info. I'd completely overlooked the fact that some people would willingly trade their own info and rights in exchange for a sense of security. So it makes sense that they'd use this incident to boost support for law enforcement keeping everyone's DNA on record.

Now the tinfoil-hat-wearer in me wonders if they really used DNA info to track this guy in the first place. It's something that also bothered me about my above example of the CIA's fake vaccine program being used to track Bin Laden. I wondered why they would release that info because it would let their enemies know their methods, which would theoretically make it easier for their enemies to counter those methods. But part of me wondered if that story was a lie and was just used to cover up their real methods for tracking people or to provide cover to specific informants who may have been the real reason the CIA was supposedly able to track him.

A guy named Adolph would have absolutely loved there to have been a DNA databank available to him....are you getting my drift here......only an idiot would surrender their DNA willingly.

originally posted by: one4all

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: theantediluvian

Some of my family members and I had a discussion a while back about taking DNA tests. We opted not to do it for 2 reasons.

1) These DNA testing companies have laughably small sample sizes of African ethnic groups, which defeated the purpose for us.

2) We were all suspicious that the DNA samples and info would be kept, sold to, and used by companies, researchers, law enforcement branches, and various other govt agencies virtually forever (not just in this country).

So I'm not surprised by this story. If anything, I'm surprised that they allowed the public to know how they got the info. It's kind of like the CIA's fake vaccine program that supposedly led them to Bin Laden in Pakistan. The method itself isn't that surprising; the surprising part is that they let the world know that's how they supposedly did it.

ETA: After reading some of the comments in this thread, I now think I understand why they released this info. I'd completely overlooked the fact that some people would willingly trade their own info and rights in exchange for a sense of security. So it makes sense that they'd use this incident to boost support for law enforcement keeping everyone's DNA on record.

Now the tinfoil-hat-wearer in me wonders if they really used DNA info to track this guy in the first place. It's something that also bothered me about my above example of the CIA's fake vaccine program being used to track Bin Laden. I wondered why they would release that info because it would let their enemies know their methods, which would theoretically make it easier for their enemies to counter those methods. But part of me wondered if that story was a lie and was just used to cover up their real methods for tracking people or to provide cover to specific informants who may have been the real reason the CIA was supposedly able to track him.

A guy named Adolph would have absolutely loved there to have been a DNA databank available to him....are you getting my drift here......only an idiot would surrender their DNA willingly.

First, I think a DNA database would actually reduce a lot of ethnic-based and race-based bigotry since all of that "racial purity" crap tends to go out of the window when DNA results come back. And second, there are plenty of legit reasons for someone to willingly give up DNA samples. Have you ever given a blood donation before?

ETA: I get your point but I don't think DNA tests are bad. It's the way DNA testing companies use the data afterward that concerns me.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: one4all

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: theantediluvian

Some of my family members and I had a discussion a while back about taking DNA tests. We opted not to do it for 2 reasons.

1) These DNA testing companies have laughably small sample sizes of African ethnic groups, which defeated the purpose for us.

2) We were all suspicious that the DNA samples and info would be kept, sold to, and used by companies, researchers, law enforcement branches, and various other govt agencies virtually forever (not just in this country).

So I'm not surprised by this story. If anything, I'm surprised that they allowed the public to know how they got the info. It's kind of like the CIA's fake vaccine program that supposedly led them to Bin Laden in Pakistan. The method itself isn't that surprising; the surprising part is that they let the world know that's how they supposedly did it.

ETA: After reading some of the comments in this thread, I now think I understand why they released this info. I'd completely overlooked the fact that some people would willingly trade their own info and rights in exchange for a sense of security. So it makes sense that they'd use this incident to boost support for law enforcement keeping everyone's DNA on record.

Now the tinfoil-hat-wearer in me wonders if they really used DNA info to track this guy in the first place. It's something that also bothered me about my above example of the CIA's fake vaccine program being used to track Bin Laden. I wondered why they would release that info because it would let their enemies know their methods, which would theoretically make it easier for their enemies to counter those methods. But part of me wondered if that story was a lie and was just used to cover up their real methods for tracking people or to provide cover to specific informants who may have been the real reason the CIA was supposedly able to track him.

A guy named Adolph would have absolutely loved there to have been a DNA databank available to him....are you getting my drift here......only an idiot would surrender their DNA willingly.

First, I think a DNA database would actually reduce a lot of ethnic-based and race-based bigotry since all of that "racial purity" crap tends to go out of the window when DNA results come back. And second, there are plenty of legit reasons for someone to willingly give up DNA samples. Have you ever given a blood donation before?

ETA: I get your point but I don't think DNA tests are bad. It's the way DNA testing companies use the data afterward that concerns me.

As I said I am sure a guy named Adolph would have loved to have had a DNA GLOBAL bank....and he would have also appreciated the support of people like yourself who could legitimise his task for him.

Give up your DNA for a medical operation sure....full stop there....you are suggesting that people rely on a COMPROMISED LEGAL SYSTEM TO PROTECT THEIR RIGHTS TO THEIR OWN DNA...LMAO...no one is buying that kind of deal...not today...we KNOW that anything we give up will be used against us......today I can still watch online videos of cop killers who are walking around free and clear with no investigation nor prosecution...I am talking RETROACTIVE....and this is the crux....there is NO MULLIGAN AVAILABLE......no one can trust the system yet....more time is needed for Trump and Friends to clean out the crooked Judges and other imbedded within the legal system..this will take years as some are buried DEEPLY.

a reply to: theantediluvian

This is a bit alarming to me. I think it's great that they've potentially caught this bastard but the implications here are more than worrisome.

And as much as I'd love to research my genealogical roots (I think I have a very interesting family on both sides - he said modestly), it's the only reason I have never done the "provide a DNA sample" thing, to anyone for any reason.

And unless I somehow get convicted of a felony here in the US - where they will take a sample of my DNA which does NOT require my permission as it's a requirement of all felons in the US - I will NEVER EVER allow a sample of my DNA to be taken from me on a voluntary basis. Period. End of discussion

As far as having it stolen from me from say...one of my toothbrushes or a coffee cup I've drank from...well, that is an entirely different matter. And if I should somehow get wind of it prior to it being stolen, my response will be very quick and very ferocious.

The concept of Privacy - at least in *some* form* - is one of the very few rights we should defend to the death in my opinion.

But, your mileage may vary...

Great OP Ante - thanks!

While this could be used for "good" too much BAD can come of it
imo

a reply to: theantediluvian

I know that GedMatch was used. I'm on that site. It's free. You can take your DNA sequence from the pay-for sites (Ancestry, 23andme and Family Tree DNA), and upload it onto their site, using their calculators and relative matching.

It's a huge database.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: one4all

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: theantediluvian

Some of my family members and I had a discussion a while back about taking DNA tests. We opted not to do it for 2 reasons.

1) These DNA testing companies have laughably small sample sizes of African ethnic groups, which defeated the purpose for us.

2) We were all suspicious that the DNA samples and info would be kept, sold to, and used by companies, researchers, law enforcement branches, and various other govt agencies virtually forever (not just in this country).

So I'm not surprised by this story. If anything, I'm surprised that they allowed the public to know how they got the info. It's kind of like the CIA's fake vaccine program that supposedly led them to Bin Laden in Pakistan. The method itself isn't that surprising; the surprising part is that they let the world know that's how they supposedly did it.

ETA: After reading some of the comments in this thread, I now think I understand why they released this info. I'd completely overlooked the fact that some people would willingly trade their own info and rights in exchange for a sense of security. So it makes sense that they'd use this incident to boost support for law enforcement keeping everyone's DNA on record.

Now the tinfoil-hat-wearer in me wonders if they really used DNA info to track this guy in the first place. It's something that also bothered me about my above example of the CIA's fake vaccine program being used to track Bin Laden. I wondered why they would release that info because it would let their enemies know their methods, which would theoretically make it easier for their enemies to counter those methods. But part of me wondered if that story was a lie and was just used to cover up their real methods for tracking people or to provide cover to specific informants who may have been the real reason the CIA was supposedly able to track him.

A guy named Adolph would have absolutely loved there to have been a DNA databank available to him....are you getting my drift here......only an idiot would surrender their DNA willingly.

First, I think a DNA database would actually reduce a lot of ethnic-based and race-based bigotry since all of that "racial purity" crap tends to go out of the window when DNA results come back.

I wish that were true, but it's not. People think that it's all spelled out for the last 50,000 + years, like an orderly book that goes back to Africa, and if it's there it's there and if it's not, it's not, and that's just not how it works. The big 3, Ancestry.com, 23andme, and FamilyTreeDNA, can only reliably go back 4 to maaayyybe 7 (at a stretch) generations. These are good calculators too, with solid algorithms.

If you are very admixed it gets even less reliable. Trust me, I have been beating my head against that for a while. All the more so, because of the rarity of such admixture. The calculators don't know what to do with it, and the experts are skeptical when they see it. I've retested because geneticists have looked at my DNA, and looked at my skin tone and said there must be some mistake.

If you have trace amounts of an ethnicity or, even worse, ethnicities, they can be swamped by your dominant DNA and even distorted in how they are interpreted by the algorithms. For example, if you are primarily, lets say, 98% northern and western European and 2% African, even if your African ancestor was a west African trans-atlantic slave, most calculators will almost certainly say "North African" because of all of the European DNA. It would take an expert to parse it out, if they can at all. As another example, trace amounts of Native American DNA are often confused for East Asian and even Central Asian DNA as the Altaic migration to the Americas has shared roots and so, genetic markers, with those populations.

Also, most self-identifying white/European Americans are exactly what they look like, which is, European. Racial purity was important to our ancestors, and let's be honest, it is still important to many people today. It really was, for the usual, arguably inevitable, tribal propensities with some really horrific and ridiculous justifications. There were real, social implications that could impact survival for those who chose someone brown to have sex with. With the exception of slave owners who had sex with slaves, but those offspring were still left in the social strata for slaves, which created a different ratio in their admixture. There were few exceptions. Regardless of the history, that social legacy is present in the DNA. People are surprised and often disappointed by just how white they are (bearing in mind, for the last 5-7 generations). Although, those ideas about white superiority have been kicking around for a loooong time. Far longer than a meager 7 generations.

a reply to: redhorse

I'm talking about stuff like this:


And this:

And this:

But the real takeaway centers on a new, nuanced pattern within white supremacist groups to redefine and solidify their ranks through genetic ancestry testing, said Aaron Panofsky, a UCLA sociologist who co-led the study presented Monday at the American Sociological Association’s 112th annual meeting in Montreal.

“Once they start to see that a lot of members of their community are not going to fit the ‘all-white’ criteria, they start to say, “Well, do we have to think about what percentage [of white European genealogy] could define membership?” said Aaron Panofsky, a UCLA sociologist who co-led the study presented Monday at the American Sociological Association’s 112th annual meeting in Montreal.

How white supremacists respond when their DNA says they’re not ‘white’