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Air Force seeks to replace OC and WC-135

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posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 05:20 PM
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The Air Force is seeking $430M to replace two WC-135 and two OC-135 aircraft. The WC-135s would be replaced by three KC-135Rs that have been retired from Air Force service. Modifications would start in September of next year, at the same facility that upgrades the RC-135. The OC-135 aircraft would be replaced by two commercial derivative aircraft, possibly 737s.

Both types of aircraft have some of the worst reliability records in the Air Force, but at the same time, the most important missions. The WC-135s are used to monitor airborne radiation levels, and detect nuclear tests. The OC-135s are used for Open Skies missions over Russia. The current OC-135s are still using wet film cameras, while the other signatories have moved on to newer airframes and digital cameras.


The Air Force is seeking $430 million to pay for five aircraft to replace Offutt-based planes that were built in the 1960s and lately have been plagued by maintenance difficulties.

The Trump administration’s 2019 budget request includes $222 million to buy two new small airliners and equip them with cameras that allow the U.S. to photograph military facilities in Russia and other countries as part of the Open Skies Treaty.

The budget request also includes $208 million to convert three KC-135R aerial-refueling tankers into “Constant Phoenix” jets capable of detecting and identifying fallout from nuclear explosions in North Korea or elsewhere.

All five new and reconditioned jets would fall under the 55th Wing at Offutt Air Force Base.

www.omaha.com...



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 05:29 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

So I know we are treaty bound to run those open skies flights. Do we really gain anything from them considering the quality of satellite imagery these days? It's not like its time sensitive intel so what could the 135 do that a sat could not? I definitely agree we need a balance between ISR aircraft and satellites, but I prefer my ISR capability to be nearly invisible or to go slightly faster than a 135 can.



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 05:39 PM
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a reply to: Bfirez

It's not ISR capability, it's treaty verification capability. Open Skies is to verify things like defueling of missiles, dismantling of weapons, etc. Satellites aren't capable of imaging that level of detail as they go overhead, and they can't loiter and monitor it being done.



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 06:02 PM
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Time to change these suckers out for sure. I can see the 737 platform for sure as its got about the same range as the platform they are flying.



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 06:18 PM
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a reply to: FredT

That's what I was thinking. They'll have parts and support commonality with the C-40s, so they won't need a new parts stockpile, they'll already have a depot facility, etc.



posted on May, 13 2018 @ 09:20 PM
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I'm not going to say what I think about certain gentlemen from Texas, because it would be a T&C violation.

OC-135 replacement funding cut.



posted on May, 15 2018 @ 03:58 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

It isn't the right of "he who shall not be named" to unilaterally decide to end the OpenSkies flights. (Assuming I understand the article.) Also in the scheme of things, replacing these old planes is chump change.



posted on Dec, 18 2018 @ 08:24 AM
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The current Speckled Trout, 63-7980 has been retired to Tinker, and is in the process of being stripped. The engines have been removed and are on the way to L3 in Greenville, Texas where they'll be installed onto one of the WC-135s. No word on the other WC getting upgraded.



posted on Jul, 3 2019 @ 07:01 AM
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Interesting development to this.

www.defensenews.com...



posted on Jul, 4 2019 @ 12:49 AM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
Interesting development to this.

www.defensenews.com...


Jesus what about the crews in those Herc's. From what Ive seen the Constant Phoenix have a number of crew protection systems. A mask is not gonna cut it here



posted on Jul, 4 2019 @ 12:53 AM
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You know what would really fit the bill here? A 767. You have commonality with the KC-46. They already looked at and did a partial development of the E-10 MC2A so you may not need to start from scratch etc.

The KC=46's issues aside, its a proven airframe with good range and decent reliability



posted on Jul, 4 2019 @ 12:55 AM
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a reply to: FredT

Yeah, it's definitely not the best solution, but it gives them more coverage than two aircraft.



posted on Apr, 26 2020 @ 01:21 PM
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Big Safari and L3 confirmed that the first aircraft, 64-14836, a former Airzona and New Hampshire KC-135, will begin conversion to a WC-135R in May. The second aircraft will start in January 2021, and the third in September 2021. The conversion will remove the boom, and upgrade the avionics to RC-135 standards, as well as adding sampling devices to the fuselage.

Omaha.com
edit on 4/26/2020 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2020 @ 01:35 PM
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What about buying the 5 Sentinel R1’s off the MOD when they “retire” them next year...good airframe..very low hours...lots legs on them..lots of room underneath when you take the old radar from out the belly canoe...L3 did the original conversion on the first one so they are no stranger to the aircraft...the USAF already have GLEX’s I service so are used to the airframe and already have flight qualified crew...better they have them than scrapping them....!



posted on Apr, 26 2020 @ 01:42 PM
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a reply to: Silentvulcan

The conversion would be too extensive. For an R model, it's just a matter of pulling the boom, giving them a cockpit upgrade (which they were already slated for anyway), and adding the external pods and storage tanks. With them being the same basic airframe, the 55th RW is already setup to handle them. For a Sentinel, they'd have to remove the radar, make the alterations for the sampling mission, and then they'd be orphan children for where to home them, and who would take care of them. The E-11A fleet is all expeditionary, so they don't have a home back in the states.



posted on Apr, 26 2020 @ 01:49 PM
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Right...I see the issues now...just seems a shame they might be scrapping them with so few flying hours in them...a reply to: Zaphod58



posted on Apr, 26 2020 @ 01:58 PM
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a reply to: Silentvulcan

They're neat little aircraft, and it's crazy that they're dumping them this soon. It would be nice if they send them to RF21-1 so I can get a shot of them.



posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 07:48 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58
And an even broader look could see the E-3's, E-8, OC, RC and WC-135's replaced by 737 derivatives. The E-7 is a good fit for many E-3 roles and you can probably afford more airframes for the same or similar cost, plus we have seen a proposed E-8 replacement that dovetails nicely with the E-7. And of course the P-8 just adds to the pool. Additionally we can expect to see 737NG models and almost certainly the Max around for many many years to come which gives you a massive pool of parts to draw upon. Meanwhile almost nobody operates the 707 anymore so it just gets more expensive each year. I frankly cant see what the problem is. There is a fleet of aging and increasingly decrepit aircraft fulfilling roles that are still necessary and not going away. There is a US made aircraft that is closely related to the KC-135/707 family that is still in production and is vastly more efficient and cheaper to run. It has already been modified and proven in some of the roles needed at Mil Spec levels. Not having a large scale adoption is frankly insane given how much it would save and how much more capability it would provide.



posted on Apr, 27 2020 @ 08:37 AM
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a reply to: thebozeian

The problem is that we get a bunch of guys in the procurement office that want one platform to replace them all. They tried to replace the E-3, E-8, and all the RC models with the E-10. They were going to use a 767 to combine all those missions. They were already starting again, with wanting to replace the E-4, E-6, and C-32 with one aircraft. At least that combination makes some sense.



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