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Judge rules New York City bar can refuse service to Trump supporter wearing MAGA hat

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posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 10:06 AM
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originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
Id just like to clarify my position on this for no one in particular

Either its OK to refuse service to people or its not, you cant pick and choose.

If according to US law a bakery cant discriminate who it bakes cakes for due to religious intolerance and bigotry then a bar shouldnt be able to refuse service based on political intolerance and bigotry.


It's based off local laws, not federal.


Personally I think if people dont want to serve Gays, Trump supporters, Christians, Muslims, Blacks, Whites, Men, Women or whoever they have a problem with then they shouldnt have to.


You've added Trump supporters in with those protected by law. They aren't. That's the difference.




posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 10:08 AM
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originally posted by: dawnstar
I still want to open a restaurant that serves and hires only smokers, just to see if I can get around the smoking ban...
more than likely.... not!!!


Oh hell no. That wouldn't fly. Talk about a group discriminated against. Smokers.



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 10:08 AM
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originally posted by: testingtesting
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

So it is unjust to refuse a known pedo a drink in my Pub?.


You’re a guy slinging drinks. I’m not sure being just is a part of the repertoire.



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 10:08 AM
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originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: luthier

oh, so in that case, it's the lady's fault that she got into an accident (regardless of who's fault the accident was) and having to rely on the tow truck driver to do his job (which, if I remember right, was prepaid)....
but ya all new yorkers are liberals and petty jerks because one man, who was served, was denied service at a bar that was probably near another bar that he could have easily walked to with no problem whatsoever...

well, guess what, if you statement is true about the bar, then I would have to say that the conservative tow truck driver, and thus, all conservatives, are far bigger petty jerks because of that one tow truck driver! and since he used "GOD" in his original excuse for his behavior, I would also extend that to all christians!
only, I've known some REAL christians in my lifetime, they would go out of their way to help ANYONE in need, not just those of their own tribe. so, my guess is that my statement is wrong, but it also means your statement is just as wrong... it's just you found an opportunity to do what you love to do the most, demonize the liberals, our lives are crap and we can't have what we want, what we are entitled to so we need scapegoats!





That is quite a rant.

I was just explaining tow truck drivers are often pretty oportunistic as a stereotype. If you are in an emergency you should call first responders.

And ps. I am a libertarian leaning independent so not sure what the lecture is about.
edit on 26-4-2018 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 10:10 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t




It is easy for a Trump supporter or Hillary supporter who got kicked out of a bar to go find another bar that couldn't give a squat about who you voted for, but a gay person kicked out of a bar in a town or city that holds large anti-gay opinions could have a much harder time finding a bar that is open to them being gay.


Well if a whole town hates you and doesnt want to deal with you for WHATEVER reason maybe you should move instead of expecting them to change. If your not wanted somewhere or someone doesnt want to deal with you then move on.

Not accepting intolerance is just another form of intolerence



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 10:11 AM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: testingtesting
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

So it is unjust to refuse a known pedo a drink in my Pub?.


You’re a guy slinging drinks. I’m not sure being just is a part of the repertoire.


At some point an owner should be able to make the call about how the majority of his customers feel. You run a business in most cases to make money not uphold the constitution.
edit on 26-4-2018 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 10:11 AM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Whatever you say man. You are the one trying to pick an argument with me even though I already told you I don't support kicking people out of bars for their political beliefs.


My apologies. But victims of injustice require defence, not partisan bickering.

So who is the victim in this case, that is little more than he said she said; though receipts would back up the bars story.


It backs up the man’s story too, since there are two-sides to the story after all.

If he was served then he was not refused service, if he managed to spend $200 on drinks incl. tip, his being kicked out, if he was kicked out, wouldn’t likely be because he wore a MAGA hat; and if he spent $200 before being removed for his hat, it doesn’t line up with his story.



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 10:14 AM
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a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

Easy for you to say, but uprooting from all your friends and family is tough no matter what hostility you receive on a daily basis.


Not accepting intolerance is just another form of intolerence

Maybe so, but there has to be giving point somewhere. Eventually someone is going to have to be forced to do something against their beliefs. You can't acquiesce to everyone's wants and desires. I, myself, would rather strive for social harmony over allowing people with unjustified hatred against a people have their way.



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 10:14 AM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I look at my morality in every job I have done, I do not leave it at the work door.
He could have paid 10 times the amount for a pint and I would still tell him to leave and not come in again.



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 10:16 AM
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originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Whatever you say man. You are the one trying to pick an argument with me even though I already told you I don't support kicking people out of bars for their political beliefs.


My apologies. But victims of injustice require defence, not partisan bickering.

So who is the victim in this case, that is little more than he said she said; though receipts would back up the bars story.


It backs up the man’s story too, since there are two-sides to the story after all.

If he was served then he was not refused service, if he managed to spend $200 on drinks incl. tip, his being kicked out, if he was kicked out, wouldn’t likely be because he wore a MAGA hat; and if he spent $200 before being removed for his hat, it doesn’t line up with his story.



According to the lawyer:


​It just happened to be his particular card that was on the tab. He was in fact refused service and we stand by that,” Liggieri said.

As for the generous gratuity Liggieri said his client has “such a good heart that he’s going to tip no matter” how he’s treated.​




posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 10:18 AM
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originally posted by: testingtesting
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I look at my morality in every job I have done, I do not leave it at the work door.
He could have paid 10 times the amount for a pint and I would still tell him to leave and not come in again.


I don’t doubt it. Let’s just be thankful you don’t occupy a position that requires unbiased judgement over the lives of others.



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 10:20 AM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

And lets hope you never hold any power and give pedos the right to talk to kids online.



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 10:20 AM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Whatever you say man. You are the one trying to pick an argument with me even though I already told you I don't support kicking people out of bars for their political beliefs.


My apologies. But victims of injustice require defence, not partisan bickering.

So who is the victim in this case, that is little more than he said she said; though receipts would back up the bars story.


It backs up the man’s story too, since there are two-sides to the story after all.

If he was served then he was not refused service, if he managed to spend $200 on drinks incl. tip, his being kicked out, if he was kicked out, wouldn’t likely be because he wore a MAGA hat; and if he spent $200 before being removed for his hat, it doesn’t line up with his story.



According to the lawyer:


​It just happened to be his particular card that was on the tab. He was in fact refused service and we stand by that,” Liggieri said.

As for the generous gratuity Liggieri said his client has “such a good heart that he’s going to tip no matter” how he’s treated.​


So they took his card, opened a tab for him, but didn’t take his drink order?

Looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, right?



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 10:20 AM
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originally posted by: TheJesuit
a reply to: Middleoftheroad

Publicity or not a bar should not be able to refuse service for a specific hat or because of political affiliation this was America it Starting to look ww2 ish wanna live in that kind of reality?


Let's think this through. What are they refusing service for? An item of clothing? What about all the people who want to wear t-shirts with profanity on them? Or hats with sex toys perched on their bills?

It's a stupid business move to refuse people wearing a political hat (or not, depending on how it works out lol) but it's not actually discrimination based on political affiliation. A Trump supporter can leave the MAGA hat in the car and go right in.

I'll be interested to see how many "conservatives" are outraged by this. As Sillyolme alludes to, many conservative posters believe that business owners should be able to discriminate against gay people — despite sexuality being something people have absolutely no control over and couldn't choose not to "wear" into an establishment even if they wanted to.



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 10:21 AM
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originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: testingtesting
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

So it is unjust to refuse a known pedo a drink in my Pub?.


You’re a guy slinging drinks. I’m not sure being just is a part of the repertoire.


At some point an owner should be able to make the call about how the majority of his customers feel. You run a business in most cases to make money not uphold the constitution.


I used to manage a Dave and Busters. We refused entrance to people wearing tank tops or who had more than 4 kids to an adult. I had to refuse Bears Star Mike Singletary entry for a Birthday Party for his kids for not having more Adults. Luckily he was very cool about it and had an employee stay with his group the whole time so we could eventually admit him and the kids in.

Establishments can and do refuse service to people all the time. Especially when alcohol is involved.



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 10:24 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

I, myself, would rather strive for social harmony over allowing people with unjustified hatred against a people have their way.


If people arent forced to deal with people that they hate then intolerance likely wouldnt be an issue because they wouldnt have to tolerate them.

Who decides who needs to acquiesce when theres a conflict?
Governments choosing this instead of the individual leads to things like the Khmer Rouge and the holocaust, its a slippery slope



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 10:24 AM
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a reply to: dawnstar

Typical, group X get´s "offended" because shop Y threw Z out. How can you be personally offended when someone that you count to your "group" get´s refused? Really, offended?

Stop being whiney group dynamic victims constantly being offended.



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 10:24 AM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian

originally posted by: TheJesuit
a reply to: Middleoftheroad

Publicity or not a bar should not be able to refuse service for a specific hat or because of political affiliation this was America it Starting to look ww2 ish wanna live in that kind of reality?


Let's think this through. What are they refusing service for? An item of clothing? What about all the people who want to wear t-shirts with profanity on them? Or hats with sex toys perched on their bills?

It's a stupid business move to refuse people wearing a political hat (or not, depending on how it works out lol) but it's not actually discrimination based on political affiliation. A Trump supporter can leave the MAGA hat in the car and go right in.

I'll be interested to see how many "conservatives" are outraged by this. As Sillyolme alludes to, many conservative posters believe that business owners should be able to discriminate against gay people — despite sexuality being something people have absolutely no control over and couldn't choose not to "wear" into an establishment even if they wanted to.


It's not really that simple. If you own a gay bar and you know everytimes the guys who wears "I hate gays" comes in fights break out, the cops come, and customers don't come back you make the call....

Who knows what really happened.



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 10:25 AM
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a reply to: pavil

Agreed.



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 10:26 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

what's amazing is that I can go through my daily life, do my shopping and what not... don't do bars, sorry... and when the day is done, the week is done, the month is done, after years have passed.... the people I interact with have no idea what my political leanings are and I have no idea what theirs are... it's not that important to me or them.
so, even if a business had a sign saying no liberals, or no conservatives, ect.... it seems that it would be so easy to circumvent their policies and go anyways... unless you choose to wear or act in a way that gives it away.

meanwhile, how many laws have either been passed or at least attempted to be passed making it legal for the religious right to discriminate according to their beliefs. and, in how many ways is it already allowed?
a man can live without a drink but some women really do require that abortion to continue to live... and yet, it's quite common, and permitted for some of the hospitals in this country to roll the dice on that women's fate and deny the abortion, allowing her to get sicker and sicker..
a man can live without a drink but most people have to work to stay alive, they have to have shelter, and get medical care... all of which they want to be able to deny to those who are living in a way they deem as not right... be they single or divorce moms, same sex couples, or whatever...
they have been fighting for the right to discriminate on the basis of what they belief regardless of the consequences to their victims.... but oh... the horror if someone refuses them a drink at a bar???




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