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UK Authorities Crack Down On Nazi Dogs And Angry Drivers While Forcing Parents To Watch Baby Die

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posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 01:00 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

He will not be cured in Italy. There is no cure. The courts blocked it because the evidence proves moving him there would cause additional unnecessary suffering. This is correct and just.

Where i personally disagree with the decisions (so far) is that he should be allowed home (to die) if that is the parents final wish.


edit on 26-4-2018 by Flavian because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 01:02 PM
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a reply to: Kurokage

Agreed about feeding

Hope is always dashed in a situation like this but witholding food to kill the child is not ethical to me when a massive dose of morphine would do it swiftly. And yes euthanasia is not legal in the UK, but I invite anyone to explain how witholding food from a child with the intention they die is not euthanasia.



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 01:02 PM
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originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: Grambler



very unlikely that the child is in pain


It's this that concerns me.


Ok so now its about the small chance alfie is in pain.

RThe given that, and teh fact that as everyone has told us, the court decision is not about the parents or anyything like that, its all about what is best for alfie...

If the court says there is no hope t all for alfie, and there is a small chance he is in pain, then based on these critiria the humane thing to do would be to end alfies life immediatly in as painless as a method as possible.

Yet they didnt do that.

Therefore it is clear that there are other considerations that the court is taking in to effect, and it is not all about alfie.



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 01:06 PM
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originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: Grambler

He will not be cured in Italy. There is no cure. The courts blocked it because the evidence proves moving him there would cause additional unnecessary suffering. This is correct and just.

Where i personally disagree with the decisions (so far) is that he should be allowed home (to die) if that is the parents final wish.



So now you are saying it is all about alfies pain, when your very last post said that was not the case.

This is what is so troubling, both the posters on here defending the court and the court itself seem to waffle on this when it suits them.

If you are concerned about the admittedly small chance alfie is suffeirng in paibn, then end it now.

If that chance of pain is small enough to not end it now, then leave the bioy be gtaken to italy for competent treatment.

But to ride the fence and say going to italy would be too much pain, but he is not in enough pain to end it now is ludicrous.



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 01:08 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

As been stated before, the UK doesn't do euthanasia.
I also imagine that the father will take Alder Hey to court no matter what any way.
Morphine can be given if a patent asks for it for pain relief or that they are known to be in pain, as the dose increases with the pain then..... with Alfie this wouldn't happen as they are unsure I imagine, and giving a child morphine till they die would cause even more uproar.
edit on 26-4-2018 by Kurokage because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 01:12 PM
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originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
My point is that the judiciary is paid by the government and utilizes government law to rule.

They are government.


Your logic is wrong. By your definition a care worker, or a road sweeper - both paid by taxes - are government. Besides, the point is moot. In the UK (England and Wales) there is a clear division between the judiciary and the government executive, meaning they are independent.

The medical profession work within the law.





Since April 2006, judicial appointments have been the responsibility of an independent Judicial Appointments Commission. Before this appointments were made on the recommendation of the Lord Chancellor, who was a Government Minister.


[who select the judicial appointment commision?]the Selection and Character Committee (SCC), which is made up of the Commissioners. The SCC considers the panel's assessments of the candidates, alongside comments received through statutory consultation. Those who are selected are put forward to the Appropriate Authority for appointment.

Appointment[edit]. Judges of the Supreme Court are appointed by The Queen by the issue of letters patent, on the advice of the Prime Minister, to whom a name is recommended by a special selection commission. -wiki



The supremes the overall end game, are appointed by the queen with advice from the prime minister. Other judges it seems in the end are selected by a commission which is selected by the commissioners.

Not only are they paid by the gov, but they are put there by the gov.



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 01:12 PM
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originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: Grambler

As been stated before, the UK doesn't do euthanasia. I also imagine that the father will take Alder Hey to court no matter what any way.
Morphine can be given if a patent asks for it or that they are known to be in pain, as the dose increases with the pain then..... with Alfie this wouldn't happen as they are unsure I imagine.


Ok fine.

Then we finally admit that the court was not jusst looking at alfies best interest, they were also considering other factors.

So if it was my child, and I was told the following "Sorry, you can not take your child to italy for treatment, because prolonging your childs life may keep him in constant pain"

I would say "My god my child is in constant pain, please end it now then"

To which the court would say "Sorry we cant do that. What we can do is take your child off a ventilator, and allow him to starve to death, which could take days"

I would be pissed.

Further proving this insanity of allowing the courts to make this decision, because uinlike the parents, the court is not only taking alfie into consideration with their ruling.



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 01:19 PM
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a reply to: Grambler


The courts wouldn't care about uproar, look at what is happening now. I imagine all they care about is what is best for Alfie (I'm not a judge), I imagine no one knows for sure if he is in pain, and prolonging his life in Italy "could" do more bad than good.


edit on 26-4-2018 by Kurokage because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 01:19 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

A problem in this thread discussion is that some UK members have absolute faith in 'the courts' decision. I don't blindly submit to any court's decision, be it the criminal court or the family court. Judges are fallible.

And the no euthanasia is bizarre when IF the child is still breathing independently it is equally euthanasia by witholding food or water with the intention that he dies.



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 01:21 PM
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originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: Xenogears


Alfie is a child, his brain is slowly dying, he can't make a decision as he is comatose and unresponsive.


In any case being in pain does not mean you must be euthanized. Some people prefer such, others not.

How does an unresponsive child tell people he'd prefer to live in pain?


So you claim he is not truly brain dead then? You also claim he can feel pain? So he can feel being starved to death no? IF you mean no he will someday be able to feel pain, well there are pain killers. And as I said there are people with 90% of brain volume loss who are functional, even if not functional, to presume he can only indefinitely feel agonizing pain, what is the basis for this? Pain from time to time, we all feel it. Doesn't mean we're better off dead than feeling pain from time to time.



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 01:25 PM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy


Alfie is having trouble breathing. Breathing is autonomic, and in death this one of the last things to go, and from what his parents are saying he has gone blue a few times and they've had to help him.



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 01:27 PM
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a reply to: Xenogears


The disease he has is killing him, and slowly eating away at brain function. That is clear.

ETA. You stated some people would prefer to live in pain rather that death.
edit on 26-4-2018 by Kurokage because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 01:28 PM
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originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy


Alfie is having trouble breathing. Breathing is autonomic, and in death this one of the last things to go,and from what his parents are saying he has gone blue a few times and they've had to help him.


I have heard this said, but only in this thread, do you have a source, I havent found one. (emphais mine)



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 01:29 PM
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originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy


Alfie is having trouble breathing. Breathing is autonomic, and in death this one of the last things to go, and from what his parents are saying he has gone blue a few times and they've had to help him.


Then I do not support witholding food and fluids with the intention of killing him. If the parents wish to keep their child alive with mouth to mouth from their loving breaths then they should be allowed to make that choice so when it eventuall fails and their child dies of their condition, so be it.

Euthanasia through starvation I can never support. The court is wrong to kill a child through that method instead of quickly with morphine.



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 01:35 PM
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originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: Grambler

As been stated before, the UK doesn't do euthanasia.
I also imagine that the father will take Alder Hey to court no matter what any way.
Morphine can be given if a patent asks for it for pain relief or that they are known to be in pain, as the dose increases with the pain then..... with Alfie this wouldn't happen as they are unsure I imagine, and giving a child morphine till they die would cause even more uproar.


I'm sure had nazi germany won they'd also say they did not do genocide. Doublespeak is the bread and butter of the evil.



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 01:37 PM
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originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: Xenogears


The disease he has is killing him, and slowly eating away at brain function. That is clear.

ETA. You stated some people would prefer to live in pain rather that death.


And even if they personally don't want to live in pain. Most don't support suicide either.



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 01:37 PM
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originally posted by: Xenogears
I'm sure had nazi germany won they'd also say they did not do genocide. Doublespeak is the bread and butter of the evil.

Agreed.
Killing someone by intenionally depriving them of food when they cannot feed themselves because of their illness is euthanasia at best.



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 01:41 PM
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a reply to: Xenogears

I support suicide if someone is living in severe pain. My mates mother killed herself last year peacefully with drugs, she was in chronic pain and only getting worse. Her family supported her, as did I.

All my loved ones know if I'm ever in such a position or need to have my ass wiped by someone else I want them to score me enough heroin so I can do it myself while I still can. All have agreed.



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 01:41 PM
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originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Grambler

I truly believe that an american NHS would do wonders !

the kind of money and healthcare america already has , and the wealth they have , just a few billion from that military budget and you guys would be living until you are 200


The irony is if we advanced genetic engineering, tissue engineering, and anti-aging. We could probably eliminate most healthcare by like 99+% making it something for only rare extreme cases. A manhattan or apollo like heavily funded research initiative could probably do this in a few decades, wiping disease and aging by giving us dominion over biology.



posted on Apr, 26 2018 @ 01:41 PM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy


I feel the same.




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