UK Authorities Crack Down On Nazi Dogs And Angry Drivers While Forcing Parents To Watch Baby Die

originally posted by: ScepticScot

He is almost 2 and can't eat.

Like i said read up on it.

People keep on about his eating He's been in a coma for well over a year!!

The only nourishment he has had in all that time has been intravenously fed

to him.

So can people at least stop saying he is being starved .... I've seen enough

pictures of starved African babies to see Alfie is at least not suffering from

starvation.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

The problem i see is that tptb can't even deal with a little paper transfer and instead they would just view the baby as a hunk of metal.

These are the people that are leading our world.

Information is just energy to them they care not about logic and reason but they have to stay within the defined guidelines unless perhaps they could find a way to apply a patch for this problem.

a reply to: Grambler

Agreed.
I mentioned previously that my father was terminally ill, in agony, bed ridden and unable to feed himself. He begged them to end it and they did with a massive dose of morphine, of course unofficially. The family was grateful.

Now, had they said "sorry, we can only stop feeding you and starve you to death" we would not have been grateful.

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: ScepticScot

He is almost 2 and can't eat.

Like i said read up on it.

People keep on about his eating

He's been in a coma for well over a year!!

The only nourishment he has had in all that time has been intravenously fed

to him.

So can people at least stop saying he is being starved .... I've seen enough

pictures of starved African babies to see Alfie is at least not suffering from

starvation.

The definition of coma does not fit alfie.

Since he is able to track objects with his eyes.

When they took out the feeding tube yesterday they spent six hours begging the doctors to feed him. Finally they did.

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: ScepticScot

He is almost 2 and can't eat.

Like i said read up on it.

People keep on about his eating

He's been in a coma for well over a year!!

The only nourishment he has had in all that time has been intravenously fed

to him.

So can people at least stop saying he is being starved .... I've seen enough

pictures of starved African babies to see Alfie is at least not suffering from

starvation.

Yes you are right, alfie wasnt starving.

Now teh court is saying that alfie is not allowed to have food, which means he will be starving.

Why is that a good thing.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

originally posted by: Kurokage
it's undignified

How is dying of his condition while unconscious any more or less dignified by dying of starvation while unconscious.
I'd love to read your explanation of that.

by dying of starvation

Please point to where I've stated that he should be starved?
Eventually, even if they still feed him indefinitely his body will stop taking it at some point.
By being left on a machine, to breath, and feed him whilst his brain slowly rots to nothing is undignified. I've sadly seen it few times.
We know that Alfies brain is slowly dying away, does he feel pain? We don't know, he can't react or respond.

originally posted by: howtonhawky

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: Grambler

He should be allowed to die of his condition

I think what people don't get here is that his brain disease is very much like dementia, I have seen someone very close to me die from that disease, it's undignified, and if it was me I rather "go" before it got to that kind of severity.

Srry but your dementia is not helping the boy and it is getting in the way of your ability to post rationally.

It is undignified.

Your insults are very poor and shows how you don't understand the topic at hand!!

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: Grambler

Agreed.
I mentioned previously that my father was terminally ill, in agony, bed ridden and unable to feed himself. He begged them to end it and they did with a massive dose of morphine, of course unofficially. The family was grateful.

Now, had they said "sorry, we can only stop feeding you and starve you to death" we would not have been grateful.

And lets say you grandfather in a monet of clarity asked to be kept of life support and a ventilator.

Would you have looked at your father as having a shameful, undignified death?

Of course not!

But according to others, many people that make the decsion for ventilators are shameful and undignified.

originally posted by: Kurokage

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

originally posted by: Kurokage
it's undignified

How is dying of his condition while unconscious any more or less dignified by dying of starvation while unconscious.
I'd love to read your explanation of that.

by dying of starvation

Please point to where I've stated that he should be starved?
Eventually, even if they still feed him indefinitely his body will stop taking it at some point.
By being left on a machine, to breath, and feed him whilst his brain slowly rots to nothing is undignified. I've sadly seen it few times.
We know that Alfies brain is slowly dying away, does he feel pain? We know he can't react, or respond.

Again, I find your claims of what is is is not dignified to be totally subjective.

Please explain to me how forcing this child to starve is somehow more dignified than letting him die of his condition.

originally posted by: Kurokage

originally posted by: howtonhawky

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: Grambler

He should be allowed to die of his condition

I think what people don't get here is that his brain disease is very much like dementia, I have seen someone very close to me die from that disease, it's undignified, and if it was me I rather "go" before it got to that kind of severity.

Srry but your dementia is not helping the boy and it is getting in the way of your ability to post rationally.

It is undignified.

Your insults are very poor and shows how you don't understand the topic at hand!!

That was not an insult.

Take it literally.

Your previous dementia experience is hurting your ability to look at the factors of this case rationally.

I am truly srry you lost someone but it has no valid reference in this topic because the child does not have dementia as set on by old age and such.

a reply to: Grambler

Ok but that is why I feel its ok for me or any other to weigh in on hwat they think about this,

If it's open, honest and respectful debate then that is the very essence of ATS, or at least what it used to be, unfortunately its rarely that.

.... and its not a measuring contest between two countries.

But it is for far too many members.

Maybe I've become too cynical and am guilty of tarring everyone with the same brush?

I understand any decsion here will be difficult.

An understatement, but at least you can see that, far too many see it as a black and white situation.

That is not me saying the UK sucks, or that the US is better.

Good and bad in both.

As I have said to otherss, yes, you can point to many times when you heard offensive things said and nobody batted an eye.

SSo why recently have people been being charged under these laws for things like posting rap lyrics in honor of a fallen friend?

I don't know....but these rare and uncommon occurrences are portrayed as the norm rather than the exception.....and people believe that nonsense rather than first hand testaments to the contrary.

a reply to: howtonhawky


I've worked in the NHS, I'm also looking at this rationally, everyone else is adding there own beliefs to Alfies case.

Your understanding of dementia shows your ignorance of the term or maybe Americans call it something different.
look up "mixed dementia" or "vascular dementia", this isn't an just an "old persons" disease.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Kurokage

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

originally posted by: Kurokage
it's undignified

How is dying of his condition while unconscious any more or less dignified by dying of starvation while unconscious.
I'd love to read your explanation of that.

by dying of starvation

Please point to where I've stated that he should be starved?
Eventually, even if they still feed him indefinitely his body will stop taking it at some point.
By being left on a machine, to breath, and feed him whilst his brain slowly rots to nothing is undignified. I've sadly seen it few times.
We know that Alfies brain is slowly dying away, does he feel pain? We know he can't react, or respond.

Again, I find your claims of what is is is not dignified to be totally subjective.

Please explain to me how forcing this child to starve is somehow more dignified than letting him die of his condition.

Please point me to where I've said "let him starve to death"??

originally posted by: Kurokage

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Kurokage

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

originally posted by: Kurokage
it's undignified

How is dying of his condition while unconscious any more or less dignified by dying of starvation while unconscious.
I'd love to read your explanation of that.

by dying of starvation

Please point to where I've stated that he should be starved?
Eventually, even if they still feed him indefinitely his body will stop taking it at some point.
By being left on a machine, to breath, and feed him whilst his brain slowly rots to nothing is undignified. I've sadly seen it few times.
We know that Alfies brain is slowly dying away, does he feel pain? We know he can't react, or respond.

Again, I find your claims of what is is is not dignified to be totally subjective.

Please explain to me how forcing this child to starve is somehow more dignified than letting him die of his condition.

Please point me to where I've said "let him starve to death"??

You are defedning the courts decision.

They have decided the child should get no food, and then starve to death.

a reply to: Xenogears

I don't believe I know what is best.

I believe that in a civilised society, when someone can't make such an important decision for themselves, then it's best its done via the court system.

Exactly as has happened here.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Grambler



I don't know....but these rare and uncommon occurrences are portrayed as the norm rather than the exception.....and people believe that nonsense rather than first hand testaments to the contrary.

I never said it is common, I said it is incredibly dangerous and sleectively applied.

I love comedy.

One of my heros is US comedian Lenny Bruce. Lenny was arrested over and over for obscenity in the 1960's.

The protests against that were one of the crowning moments for free speech.

So what I see in the UK reminds me of that.

And it is worth fighting this tyranny, even if it is rarely applied.

originally posted by: angelchemuel
Just posting this link in case anyone is interested in Alfie.....
Official Alfie Facebook page

He's been breathing by himself for 27 hours, his seizures have decreased, and he's majing noises and opening his eyes. His parents have had to go to court to get him fluids. and tomorrow they are back in court as they are not allowed to feed him. Latest updates at the link.

Rainbows
Jane

Wow, the UK knows how to reach new lows. Allowing mass child rape wasn't enough. Now starving to death disabled babies and threatening parents who want to keep it alive at gun point.

As for the child if it is truly brain dead it cannot feel pain, it cannot feel anything. Keeping it alive would be only for the comfort of the parents. But if people who are pro life support are willing to finance his care, it is their right. You may consider it wasteful, but society wastes hundreds of millions making a hollywood movie, and other frivolous entertainment. People have a right to do whatever they want with their money, so long as it doesn't directly harm other people.

There is no new and experimental treatment, he would be a guinea pig tested on without any pre-planned treatment, whimsical roll of the dice medicine like that of the turn of the century which was inhume by todays standards. I thank the UK medical teams from protecting Alfie from that.

The body is capable of quite astounding feats. When people misteriously cure themselves with no treatment, and it is called a miracle, it is nothing more than the body's own healing somehow managing against all odds. It involves nothing supernatural, but is highly improbable.
The existence of miraculous recoveries is not in doubt, it is a possibility. People have come out of comas, after decades. Even people diagnosed dead, have come awake in the autopsy table.

Yes because one is proven, there is no pain, and one is a gamble with the potential of pain or no pain.

The judge is trying to protect a dying child from having his 'life' prolonged by selfish parents with the only options available being still dies in a week/month with no pain or dies within a week/month in horrible pain.

True brain death is medical death, there is no recovery no way to ever feel pain. The original post claims undiagnosed brain condition.
Some have said down patients are better off dead, but others have said no they deserve life. Even a patient in a vegetative state, might prefer living over dying, we don't know. If they are not truly brain dead, then they might be able to feel pain but they may also be able to feel other emotions. Even if not able ever to function in society, we don't euthanize people for severe mental retardation or being locked in in a vegetative state(some people in indefinite vegetative states have been found to be conscious).

I give him 30 minutes if he hasnt popped over to the other side yet, in another week after the shrine is removed these two will have a month to appear on Jeremy Kyle at which point they will be gone except for future appearance in the Mirror when they name their next son Alfie to get some more free money for the weeks news, the Irony wont be lost of the wonderful care they received at Alder Hey.

Didn't the parents have to beg for fluids? A normal healthy adult dies after 7-10~ days without water, and after 30-40~ days without food. Obviously if you cut water or food, the baby dies quite quickly. Just as if you cut oxygen by suffocating it. That proves nothing, even a healthy baby will die under such conditions.

originally posted by: howtonhawky

The definition of coma does not fit alfie.
Since he is able to track objects with his eyes.

Doesn't it?

Alfie Evans has been living in a coma for well over a year after being struck down with a mystery illness.

He started making "jerking, seizure-like movements" and was taken to the doctors, but his parents were told he was "lazy and a late developer", the family claim.

But he caught a chest infection that caused seizures and was placed on life support at Alder Hey Children's Hospital in Liverpool in December 2016.

www.thesun.co.uk...


So he has been in a coma on life support for 16 months. Thats more than

half his life!

When they took out the feeding tube yesterday they spent six hours begging the doctors to feed him. Finally they did.

Not to feed him as in food...... but to reinstate his line.

It appears he has been in hospital since before he was weaned so in point

of fact he has NEVER actually eaten.

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: howtonhawky


I've worked in the NHS, I'm also looking at this rationally, everyone else is adding there own beliefs to Alfies case.

Your understanding of dementia shows your ignorance of the term or maybe Americans call it something different.
look up "mixed dementia" or "vascular dementia", this isn't an just an "old persons" disease.

No amount of credentials can make up for the irrational decision to not feed a starving child.

Starvation is murder.

Denying a patient the right to food,water and air is prosecutable.

It is inhumane.

You all are forgetting that if your piss poor diagnosis of coma and dementia ect... is correct then no amount of food and water can keep him alive. If you are wrong then it would then be necessary to kill the child in order to protect the diagnosis.

a reply to: Grambler


What I'm defending is the Hospital, specialists, and Doctors opinions, which is a specialist Childrens Hospital. Not this assault by people who don't fully understand the circumstances of Alfies disease, how that since he went to hospital as been unresponsive and on life support suffering fits and seizure. How people are using this child to there own political agendas.