Kanye West, Candace Owens, & Monolithic Black Thought

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: cenpuppie

Do you know where the acting white theory originated?
Dr. John U. Ogbu, a Nigerian born UC Berkeley professor.
NY Times
wiki:John Ogbu
NYT, Berkeley..... gotta be gospel, right?

He also concluded that some students did poorly because high achievement was considered "acting white" among their peers.

Yeah the magic word is "Some" but folks take the some and made it the all or the most,
HOUSTON TEEN CALLED 'OBNOXIOUS' BY FOX ANCHOR FOR APPLYING TO 20 COLLEGES DEMANDS PUBLIC APOLOGY
www.newsweek.com...
.

I'm welling to bet no one gave him hell for that, but FOX.

and BTW lil off topic this other kid got accepted into a ridiculous number of Colleges also.

originally posted by: cenpuppie
a reply to: butcherguy

So, what? This is American and he's a professor, he can say what he pleases, he is free to express his own opinion.

And that opinion is about as uneducated as it gets.

''When we asked if friends made fun of kids who do well in school, we don't find any racial difference in that,'' said Ronald F. Ferguson, a senior research associate at the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard who analyzed a new study of 40,000 middle and high school students in 15 middle class school districts, including Shaker Heights.

From your article. If you want truth, you have to reject the lies.

And their are a lot of lies on this site about black folks. Uneducated, poorly constructed lies.

So what?
You called a member a liar, saying that it is an invention.
The man that popularized it was a black doctor of anthropology at UC Berkeley.
That's so what.
Are you going to tell us that he doesn't have any idea of what he is talking about?
When people start talking about 'stroking each other', you know that they have lost.

a reply to: Spider879

Cenpuppie called another member a liar.
The problem does exist.

a reply to: Spider879

just curious to know what conservative means in the US to you all.

For me conservative means , rich white people that dislike poor people of all colours and classes lower than theirs
at least in Scotland that's what it means to me
when I was wee, that used to equal , rich white English people, but then I grew up and realised there are rich white Scottish #s too!

a reply to: butcherguy

Dunno but usually when people are stroking you , you are onto a win eventually right ?

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

If you know the history of the Demorat Party and LBJ’s buyoff of blacks with his 1964 EOA bill, then you’d understand just how bad the D’s actually are for black Americans.

It’s great to see someone like Candace shrug off the leftist groupthink and look at the other side objectively. And I say this as a former leftist that did not vote for Trump.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Edumakated

Independent thought, individuality is an anathema to the mob mentality of the left.

Cultural Marxists want you as the collective, not as the individual. They want to sort everybody into piles based on color, sexuality, gender etc. so when there is a gay person who likes guns or a black woman who has conservative opinions they treat it as a heresy to their ideology. They are the modern priesthood of the 21st century.

a reply to: sapien82

A lil different, over here, while mostly white, a lot are actually poor and poorly educated , all ethnic groups can be found among them tho, plus there is a break between what used to be called Conservative vs what some if not most called Conservative to day, having pushed the conservative so far right a number of them is willing to have, Nazi types in their ranks with no problem.

The upper echelons, are all corporate puppet today not merely pro business , while back in the days of Nixon they were the ones who created the EPA and other great agencies, today their descendants are busily trying to kill it.

Caveat many on the left are also corporate sellouts ,just not as blatant.

she can say she thinks freely all she likes but when she buys back into the left right divide, she isnt really "woke"

she is just like all the rest trapped in the dichotomy of the US democratic system!

if the US is to get anywhere it needs to break free from this same tired old system !

If you were awake , you'd realise the system is vile and corrupt and not convince anyone to be on any side apart from the side which opposes the system of profit before people and planet !

a reply to: sapien82

The problem is that on a day to day scale, there IS a divide, and the stakes for the regular, working person and families at this point are so high that neither side is willing or able to give up the battle against the other.

I live in the failing state of California, which is a single party state run by Demorat leftists. The Demorats nationwide (DNC) want all of the USA to be just like CA. That means the destruction of the US and everything that is good about it. It means an anti-democratic, socialist state. I'm not willing to back down from doing everything I can to prevent that from happening.

I'm sure there's a leftist side to this argument as well, but I don't really care what it is.

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: cenpuppie

Do you know where the acting white theory originated?
Dr. John U. Ogbu, a Nigerian born UC Berkeley professor.
NY Times
wiki:John Ogbu
NYT, Berkeley..... gotta be gospel, right?

He also concluded that some students did poorly because high achievement was considered "acting white" among their peers.

Yeah the magic word is "Some" but folks take the some and made it the all or the most,
HOUSTON TEEN CALLED 'OBNOXIOUS' BY FOX ANCHOR FOR APPLYING TO 20 COLLEGES DEMANDS PUBLIC APOLOGY
www.newsweek.com...
.

I'm welling to bet no one gave him hell for that, but FOX.

and BTW lil off topic this other kid got accepted into a ridiculous number of Colleges also.

It was obnoxious... this is not to take away from the kids accomplishments, but hardly any student applies to 20 schools, especially a kid with his qualifications who was virtually guaranteed admission to most Ivies, Stanford and the like...

I've experienced the "acting white" accusations...

First, you are acting white because you speak proper English and tone of voice

Second, you are acting white because you believe in academic excellence

Third, you are acting white if you don't necessarily participate in "black activities" i.e., if you skateboard instead of play basketball.

Fourth, you are acting white if you don't subscribe to the political group think. Notice none of the critics actually challenge anything Ms. Owens has said, but just attack her character.

For any black person to deny this is to deny reality. Black popular culture is littered with jokes and commentary on this social norm. I remember the big joke back in the day was always newscaster, Bryant Gumbel being accused of acting white. Recall on the comedy show, In Living Color, they had a whole skit with two black newscasters acting corny (i.e. white). Of course, more recently, comedian Wayne Brady... this was part of what made the whole "Does Wayne Brady have to smack a bitch?" joke on Chappel show so funny.

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: cenpuppie

Do you know where the acting white theory originated?
Dr. John U. Ogbu, a Nigerian born UC Berkeley professor.
NY Times
wiki:John Ogbu
NYT, Berkeley..... gotta be gospel, right?

He also concluded that some students did poorly because high achievement was considered "acting white" among their peers.

You completely distorted the article to make it say that learning is acting white. That's how these stereotypes start. One person distort a Truth and everyone runs with it , then before you know it, it becomes a euphemism

It's funny you point to an article refuting a moron who did a study in a school in Ohio in the early 2000s where racial divide was peaking. Even in the article it concurs that acting white is not about academic achievement at all but a snobbish or hierarchical behavior pattern of superiority; hence acting WHITE.

The article even goes to explain this. But you quote it as if it saying black think academic achievement is whiteness.

Mr. Ferguson said that while minorities lag behind whites in things like homework completion, it is wrong to infer that they aren't interested in school. ''High achievers are more often accused of acting white than low achievers, but it's because the low achievers suspect the high achievers believe they are superior.''

''It's things like talking too properly when you're in informal social settings,'' he continued. ''It's hanging around white friends and acting like you don't want to be with your black friends. It's really about behavior patterns and not achievement.''

Mr. Ferguson speculated that what Professor Ogbu saw was a clumsy attempt by black students to search for a comfortable racial identity. ''What does it mean to be black?'' he said. ''What does it mean to be white? The community needs to help kids make sense of their own identity.''

''I would agree with Ogbu that there are youth cultural patterns and behaviors that are counterproductive for academic success,'' he went on, mentioning socializing in class and spending too much time watching television. ''But when they engage in those behaviors, they are not purposely avoiding academic success.''

Other researchers have zeroed in on other culprits, whether inferior schools, lower teacher expectations, impoverished family backgrounds or some combination.

Theories of black intellectual inferiority, too, have popped up from the 1781 publication of Thomas Jefferson's ''Notes on the State of Virginia'' to ''The Bell Curve'' in 1994 and beyond. Given that sensitivity and the implications for policies like school desegregation and affirmative action, virtually every aspect of the academic gap has been examined.

Where Professor Ogbu found that some middle class blacks were clueless about their children's academic life, for example, Roslyn Arlin Mickelson, a sociology professor at the University of North Carolina, instead concluded that such parents were often excluded from the informal networks that white parents use for information about courses, gifted programs and testing. ''I believe, based on my own research, that the center of gravity lies with the school system,'' she said.

Claude Steele, a Stanford University psychologist, meanwhile, has hypothesized that black students are responding to the fear of confirming lowered expectations.

And Walter R. Allen, a professor of sociology at the University of California at Los Angeles, said that even when racial minorities and whites attended the same schools, they could have radically different experiences because of tracking and teacher expectations.

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Professor Allen is conducting a long-term project on college access for African-American and Latino high school students in California. In his view, black students sometimes underperform because of subtle exchanges with teachers who convey the message that they find the students inferior or frightening. And, he said, minority schools still overwhelmingly lack good teachers and adequate teaching tools.

He also pointed out that comparing the income level of black and white families, as Professor Ogbu did with his Midwestern subjects, can be misleading. Black incomes might be derived from two-career families juggling several jobs compared with a single breadwinner in white households.

Professor Ogbu is no stranger to controversy. His theory of ''acting white'' has been the subject of intense study since he first wrote about it in the mid-80's with Signithia Fordham, then a graduate student and now a professor of anthropology at the University of Rochester. They studied an inner-city Washington high school where students listed doing well in school among the ''white'' behaviors they rejected, like visiting the Smithsonian and dancing to lyrics rather than a beat.

The two anthropologists theorized that a long history of discrimination helped foster what is known in sociological lingo as an oppositional peer culture. Not only were students resisting the notion that white behavior was superior to their own, but they also saw no connection between good grades and finding a job.

Many scholars who have disputed those findings rely on a continuing survey of about 17,000 nationally representative students, which is conducted by the National Center for Education Statistics, an arm of the federal government. This self-reported survey shows that black students actually have more favorable attitudes than whites toward education, hard work and effort.

But that has by no means settled the debate. In the February issue of the American Sociological Review, for example, scholars who tackled the subject came to opposite conclusions. One article (by three scholars) said that the government data were not reliable because there was often a gap between what students say and what they do; another article by two others said they found that high-achieving black students were especially popular among their peers.

''It's difficult to determine what's going on,'' said Vincent J. Roscigno, a professor of sociology at Ohio State University who has studied racial differences in achievement. '''I'm sort of split on Ogbu. It's hard to compare a case analysis to a nationally representative statistical analysis. I do have a hunch that rural white poor kids are doing the same thing as poor black kids. I'm tentative about saying it's race-based.''

Indeed, Professor Mickelson of the University of North Carolina found that working class whites as well as middle-class blacks were more apt to believe that doing well in school compromised their identity.

All these years later, Professor Fordham said, she fears that the acting-white idea has been distorted into blaming the victim. She said she wanted to advance the debate by looking at how race itself was a social fiction, rooted not just in skin color but also in behaviors and social status.

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''Black kids don't get validation and are seen as trespassing when they exceed academic expectations,'' Professor Fordham said, echoing her initial research. ''The kids turn on it, they sacrifice their spots in gifted and talented classes to belong to a group where they feel good.''

a reply to: Edumakated

Blacks have never been more eclectic, from skateboarders to hockey players to swimmers gymnastics, rock and roll, 3d animation, computer science to mobile app development.

I feel sorry for you it seems you were put in a box.

I grew up in Elizabeth New Jersey, I played for Rutgers hockey, from a poor family, went to FD U, majored in comp sci, and now a biomedical and electronics engineer. I've never, in my skewed and weirdo ways, been accused of acting white by any of my friends, black or white or other.

I was skateboarding right after I played basketball on Jefferson Park by the pool with many other black kids and white kids and Italian kids.

Like that Doctor, you misinterpreted cultural with appropriation. Therefore you probably missed out on a lot of things you probably could have been doing...

There aren't many blacks people who skin seals for a living or eat frozen whale meat... That's because there aren't many blacks living in the artic... Not because they don't want to act white.

It's ridiculous you're enforcing stereotypes on your own race. No wonder the police shoot first then tells us not to move.... A black acting white is a black

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Spider879

just curious to know what conservative means in the US to you all.

For me conservative means , rich white people that dislike poor people of all colours and classes lower than theirs
at least in Scotland that's what it means to me
when I was wee, that used to equal , rich white English people, but then I grew up and realised there are rich white Scottish #s too!

You are using the academic definition of conservative. Being from Scotland I'm not all that surprised. Most conservatives I know are NOT rich. They care for everyone skin color or economic class aside. They just want to be left alone. However most liberals I know are c****. Like yourself...

originally posted by: odzeandennz
a reply to: Edumakated

Blacks have never been more eclectic, from skateboarders to hockey players to swimmers gymnastics, rock and roll, 3d animation, computer science to mobile app development.

I feel sorry for you it seems you were put in a box.

I grew up in Elizabeth New Jersey, I played for Rutgers hockey, from a poor family, went to FD U, majored in comp sci, and now a biomedical and electronics engineer. I've never, in my skewed and weirdo ways, been accused of acting white by any of my friends, black or white or other.

I was skateboarding right after I played basketball on Jefferson Park by the pool with many other black kids and white kids and Italian kids.

Like that Doctor, you misinterpreted cultural with appropriation. Therefore you probably missed out on a lot of things you probably could have been doing...

There aren't many blacks people who skin seals for a living or eat frozen whale meat... That's because there aren't many blacks living in the artic... Not because they don't want to act white.

It's ridiculous you're enforcing stereotypes on your own race. No wonder the police shoot first then tells us not to move.... A black acting white is a black

You are the first black person I've ever heard say they've never been accused of acting white at some point for stepping out of the norm You are either a unicorn or lying through your teeth imho.

Like I said, I can pull up all kinds of examples in pop culture, pundits, etc directly or indirectly acknowledging this phenomenon.

Heck, you look at half the criticism being thrown at Candace Owens it is ad hominem attacks of calling her a sell out, Uncle Tom, anti-black, etc. I can go pull up article after article written by supposed black pseudo intellectual journalist & pundits on the topic and that is all they do.

The ability of some of you do deny reality is fascinating to me.

a reply to: odzeandennz

Exactly!!!, they love to call Blk folks single minded,single culture ,single socioeconomic following the beat of the same drummer ,most detractors love to causally dismissed yours and mine experiences, and demand that theirs is all and be all, and others the exception not the rule.
This is especially grating coming from self identified black folks who I suspect,should know of the vast variety that exist among us.
What make some of us Libs or progressive depends largely on certain issues we stand for and the best way to solve them and I suspect the same is true of them. Me being a Lib or progressive is beyond any racial or ethnic issues only, it includes the environment, fair labor rules, socially aware of others , a sense that equal opportunity do not mean equal results, that access to health should be a right, one of the most greedy recently suggest that water is not a right.

Privatization of water is that Water is not a Fundamental Human Right
www.globalresearch.ca...


Since when and who decided that, Scott Pruitt is busily killing off the EPA so this asshole can take control of water. wait till they start charging us for air..yet I'm supposed to be on the same team as those guys???

a reply to: Edumakated

You are the first black person I've ever heard say they've never been accused of acting white at some point for stepping out of the norm You are either a unicorn or lying through your teeth imho. 

Nope !! he is not the only one, but there you go causally dismissing other folks experiences only your own is legit.

originally posted by: odzeandennz
A black acting white is a black

APPLAUD!!!!

Damn straight. You either act human, or you don't.

a reply to: Edumakated

I'm may be the one in a million I guess. Or maybe it's because I'm from originally a black country and migrated to the US at an early age. But I was surfing on my island and rollerblading with no indignation. And I carried that mentality after I migrated here. I swam , and ran, and played volleyball and went to the library every chance I ha, and not once it crossed my mind I was doing white things.

I'm afraid that might have been instilled in you or your parents or grand parents. I didn't grow up thinking about the arts being a white privilege, in my former country the artists and ballet dancers were black, since way back when. Don't generalize your up bringing onto the black population, leave that for the police and mortgage loan firms and the likes, you don't have to perpetuate it or believe in it.