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India is Ending FGFA Participation

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posted on May, 16 2018 @ 12:26 AM
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a reply to: C0bzz

Apparently, Business insider had someone take a looksee too and saw what we did. Now, the question remains whether or not the final product will match what we have seen above all the way through the 9th prototype.

www.businessinsider.com...




posted on May, 16 2018 @ 01:17 AM
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Oh Lord its Tyler again....



posted on May, 16 2018 @ 11:15 AM
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What’s with the livery on the latest models? Is it just to make it look pretty/break up outline or does the ‘coating’ serve a different purpose on different areas?

All the leadibg edges and the nose cone appear to be different materials/coatings than the rest of the aircraft.

I have no idea myself - just interested

Bob
edit on 16-5-2018 by DrBobH because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2018 @ 11:41 AM
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a reply to: DrBobH

The leading edges sometimes are slightly different. Sometimes they put different RAM there, to make the frontal aspect stealthier, sometimes they'll try different IR absorbing materials to try to cool them, due to the friction as they fly.



posted on May, 16 2018 @ 11:55 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

Thanks for the info Zaphod! That was kind of along the lines I was thinking, I figure there is a cost/durability element in there too as some of the RAMs must be seriously expensive.

Doesn’t hurt from a propaganda perspective if it looks awesome too. Saying the the F22/F35 livery looks pretty menacing.

Radar absorbing materials are pretty well documented but are any systems using a radar scattering material? If so is their a cost/performance benefit there?

Cheers

Bob
edit on 16-5-2018 by DrBobH because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2018 @ 12:13 PM
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a reply to: DrBobH

There's all kinds of neat things out there, but a lot of it is stuff that you have to pull teeth to find out about. Heh.



posted on May, 16 2018 @ 04:41 PM
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Leading edges would get the most abrasion so would be thicker there..



posted on May, 18 2018 @ 03:07 PM
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grates, unclean edges, etc.

This is a photo of the Su-57 with the new engines installed. It's unclear when the photo was taken. it might have been on the previously acknowledged flight of the engines or it might be of a recent date.



posted on May, 22 2018 @ 05:06 PM
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One of the things I learnt when speaking to some guys at LM late last year was the with the F-22 and the F-35, the real magic was not just in the planes themselves, but in the manufacturing technology, the production processes and the systems management that goes into it all. It is one thing coming up with the right physics theory to build a 5th gen plane, but the ability to execute that in real world engineering is something very different. Even if the Russians had detailed schematics of the F-22, their ability to build a counter would be extremely limited by the manufacturing technology issues.

As for the FGFA...well, think of it as a learning exercise, like the Comanche was for the US....



posted on May, 22 2018 @ 05:11 PM
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a reply to: Borys

It was the same with the 787. Both Boeing and Airbus had worked with composites for years, but not on that scale. Boeing learned some new techniques as well that lead them to their Black Diamond system. It's supposed to drop the cost of composites significantly.



posted on May, 22 2018 @ 06:39 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

who bought scaled composites? NG i believe.

but over all some of the videos and papers out there by US contractors on using what essentially is a composite 3D printer and computer assisted design let them do rapid testing of their idea

i would bet Russia is working on the same process but if they are i haven't read anything about it.
edit on 22-5-2018 by penroc3 because: spelling



posted on May, 22 2018 @ 09:01 PM
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a reply to: penroc3

There's a surprising amount of tech that goes from the civilian world to the military world. We see a lot that comes the other way, but a lot more goes the other way than people realize.



posted on May, 22 2018 @ 10:31 PM
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The new SLASH 3D home printers are now producing parts 50x quicker than previous types..



posted on May, 27 2018 @ 09:54 PM
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Plot twist!

Turkey is threatening to switch to the Su-57 if the US blocks the F-35 sales.

www.yenisafak.com...



posted on May, 27 2018 @ 10:18 PM
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a reply to: anzha

One mans trash is anothers treasure?



posted on May, 27 2018 @ 11:11 PM
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a reply to: Blackfinger
In another 10/15 years they will have doubled or more again in speed over that. There will no longer be a need for manufacturers, airlines or defence forces to have a supply chain as it will be reduced for most things down to a supply link. Imagine instead of a parts warehouse you have a production line of different 3d printers specializing in various types of materials and sizes. Anything that isnt made of a material that is difficult to work with or requires specialized treatments or manufacturing techniques that wont 3D print will be produced here. At most you might have just one or two sitting on a shelf for really urgent AOG needs, otherwise you order a part and then 20-30mins later it arrives to be used. All your supply chain group need is a much smaller footprint production warehouse, 3D printers and the raw materials.

All this means that you wont need quite so much centralized and specialized production anymore and you can produce things almost anywhere because labour costs dont now count and you just have to have enough skilled designers to bring an idea to production. So what that means is that more countries (potentially) will be able to go it alone when designing and producing something like a fighter. Even so it will take at least 25 years before it really gathers the critical mass for that to become reality. But its coming.



posted on May, 30 2018 @ 09:12 AM
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a reply to: anzha

RCS estimation study on Su-57 here:

www.scielo.br...

At 6-10 GHz (approximately X-band), frontal RCS is -8 dBsm (0.15 m^2), side is much bigger, as in, flying barn door bigger. Couldn't find any mention of RAM or what they assumed it was made of, how panel gaps would effect this measurement, and so forth. Would be cool if they used the same methodology for other fighters.

So take it with a grain of salt.


As The Drive’s Tyler Rogoway writes, the side-mounted radars on the Su-57 allow it to excel at a tactic called “beaming” that can trick the radars on US stealth jets. Beaming entails flying perpendicular to a fighter’s radar in a way that makes the fighter dismiss the signature of the jet as a non-target.


Yes, I'm sure exposing your 15 dbsm sides is really going work well against some of the most powerful targeting radars ever developed. Because beaming.

/s

Tyler will say anything to advance his agenda.
edit on 30/5/18 by C0bzz because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2018 @ 06:04 PM
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a reply to: C0bzz

Its an interesting paper and gives us a 'good' first order estimation. However, as you said, the gaps and matsci are not addressed and we know those are pretty important[1].

The RCS of the Rafale appears to be 1 m^2, but it might be lower (the story by the French is significantly lower). The Eurofighter is supposed to be .5 m^2. The Rhino is claimed to have between 1 m^2 to .1 m^2. The F-22 and F-35 are far, far less.

If the Russians have mastered matsci, then I could see them getting it down an order of magnitude, but...those gaps and the materials we've seen so far would not bring the the Su-57 within range of the American 5th gens.

That said, I'm definitely echoing your sentiment for the researchers to repeat the analysis with the F-22 or F-35.

1. The X-35 wasn't billed as a combat ready aircraft. The Su-57 is. If they'd called it strictly an EMD aircraft, I'd be giving them more slack.



posted on May, 31 2018 @ 04:29 AM
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a reply to: C0bzz

LMAO

For "beaming" to work you would have to continuously track the enemy radar source. You would be severely constricted in your flight path. That is a stupid tactic for a fighter.

Additionally modern radars (AESA) have functionality to reduce the chance of detection, making the the signal look like noise. So good luck trying "beaming" on a F-22 or F-35.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 02:56 AM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: penroc3

There's a surprising amount of tech that goes from the civilian world to the military world. We see a lot that comes the other way, but a lot more goes the other way than people realize.


That nails a thorny issue that has been happening since the early 1980s: back before the days when Microsoft really made software sexy and lucrative, the best scientific and engineering talent the US produced generally did some time in the defense sector: it paid very well and looked great on the CV. But with Microsoft leading the charge of IT firms, then almost at the same time management consultancy started getting more into hiring straight out of grad and even undergrad schools (and not just business schools) and of course the mega-boom in financial services where the likes of Goldman Sachs paid sums to 22 year olds that other firms would only give to hires with 5+ years of experience, America's smartest gravitated towards those sectors...and then the Wall came down, and the peace dividend saw defense tech as an also ran in the talent wars for over 2 decades (some exceptions of course, but I speak as a general trend), hardly helped by the arrival of Google/Alphabet, Amazon, Facebook and a myriad of other tech firms that continue to absorb the most talented graduates. And the Pentagons recent attempt to tap into some of Alphabets amazing AI talent pool has ended with an internal revolt by large numbers of Alphabets staff staging various actions voicing their disapproval of working with the military - and that included a few resignations of some exceptional staff.

An issue that won't go away, but that needs to be addressed as China continues its high tech push and Russia also can't be discounted in a few fields.




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