India is Ending FGFA Participation

That's always been my big thing, is without tankers and support aircraft we're screwed. But the leadership knows better than everyone and it's all about getting their shiny stealth aircraft.

How about shiney new Stealth UAV tankers from the Navy..?

a reply to: Zaphod58

The only thing that makes me a tiny bit less scared about that possibility is USN actually spending money on surface-to-air missile technology and the fact that any such encounter would likely take place near or over the water so that the J-20s would have to deal with multiple Ticons and Burke's spamming Standards like something out of Macross to get to the tanker/AEW&C assets.

a reply to: Blackfinger

You mean the ones that are not that stealthy?

SM's are not that cheap, I would think that the normal air defences would be taking care of any aircraft and the point defences like the s.m would be used against missiles

a reply to: penroc3

It's more that if they shoot themselves empty taking down fighters, and then someone starts popping off anti ship missiles, everyone is screwed, but yes, they have other options for anti air, although they will use at least some of their load of SMs.

Navy is already frantic with concern with the low amount of VLS cells at sea. Not sure delegating air defense to them is going to mitigate that...

a reply to: RadioRobert

Honest question: do you think they will do a rebuild on the Zumwalts to yank the cannons for more vls cells?

I don't think they have the slightest hint of a comprehensive plan, so i would guess not because inaction is always a safer bet than action.

a reply to: RadioRobert

You made Baby Mahan cry, RR.

I'd speculate they are waiting to see if the power hungry weapons in development will be ready and if so, then if they can retrofit them since the Zumies do have the power generation the rest of the surface fleet lacks. Whether railgun or laser.

But the again, I suspect you're right. THey'd order a change in the Johnson at least if they had a real plan.

When I am King, things will be different...

a reply to: Zaphod58


I think it's more feasible to defeat SSM and ASMs with passive defenses and CIWS than SMs anyway. The SMs are better served defeating aircraft that would probably be launching both AAM and ASM. Rogaway posted a good graphic that shows quite clearly why an offensive operation against the US would have a hard time succeeding. The amount of fighters and cruise missiles you need to do damage is exponentially large against a well prepared defended. What is seemingly tons of firepower does comparatively little damage.

a reply to: anzha

Su-57 shot.

What's wrong with the aircraft, guys? Not saying. I want to see if you all can figure out the...issues and why it matters.

So apparently in that image is a "Phase 1" aircraft, which is the 4th T-50 ever built. The newer aircraft "Phase 2" have a great deal many changes and improvements. I do not know all of them since I don't follow Su-57 development too intensely, but here's some photos of Phase 2 aircraft.

russianplanes.net...

russianplanes.net...

russianplanes.net...

russianplanes.net...

russianplanes.net...

russianplanes.net...

You can tell "Phase 2" from "Phase 1" via proper engine cowlings and composite LEVCON lip.

I do not think it is fair to use that image to judge the Su-57. Also, I find it amusing that The Warzone Wire is using an image of the 4th T-50 in their defense of the Su-57.

izdeliye 30 gives LOAN style nozzles as well, depends when that's ready though.

a reply to: C0bzz

Yeesh... I can see how people are starting to call this a "stealth-ish" design if this is what the "improved prototypes" look like. Between the dozens of intake vents and the rippled Slavic sheet metal that looks like it came off some prototype from the 80s, I don't even know where you'd begin trying to make this thing into a proper stealth airframe. It's a shame, too, because otherwise it's a really sharp looking aircraft that seems to have been let down by Sukhoi's inability to get the details right.

a reply to: C0bzz

Cobzz,

All the micro projections that I was trying to point out to everyone are still present in the photos you put up. The shape is far, far from clean even in the newer prototypes. The 9th bird still had the same issues.

You guys are a riot.

a reply to: anzha

At this rate, the only way this makes sense as a "stealth" aircraft is if they're building a "tranche 1" design that debuts the basic airframe, avionics, and possibly the engines in a generally "stealth-ish" package that has the potential to become a truly stealthy aircraft in the future with cleaned up "tranche 2" builds that feature minimized skin protrusions, a cleaned-up surface, and completely redesigned intakes once the Russian materials science catches up and they actually have RAM to put on it.

a reply to: RadioRobert

You're adorable, too.

Are you wannabee experts going to agree on a conclution soon....i am waiting.....

a reply to: spy66

haha. Conclusions? Really? On an internet forum? *snirk*

That will happen when morons post their citations for their statements.

a reply to: C0bzz

Still got that god aweful pimple on the nose.If a 3mm proud screw on an F1117 can take it from invisible to "Hey Im a flying BARN" imagine what a sensor sticking out like that will do to a RADAR return.