India is Ending FGFA Participation

a reply to: spy66

How do you know they were undetected? Because Russia said so? A lot of things go on that don't get announced by either side. The only people that know the truth are the people involved. Isn't it funny that somehow Russia always tells the truth, and everyone else is spouting propaganda.

Whatever, you go on believing that Russia is awesome and builds the greatest military equipment ever, and some of us will keep believing in reality.

a reply to: Zaphod58

How do i know that they were unditected?

Well i am aksking you that question. Did we pick up on our sensors when the SU 57s flew from Russia to Syria? Did we monitor the flight path in anyway?

How did russia manage to fly these jets from russia to Syria without us picking it up. Did they fly over the Black sea and over Turkey. Or did they fly from Russia over Iran and Iraq?


Did we pick up how many SU 57 russia flew to Syria?

a reply to: spy66

Your like a dog with a bone. Detecting them or not detecting them on a ferry flight means nothing. And there's no way that we would say if we did or didn't, because that involves information on radar systems that isn't public knowledge.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: spy66

Your like a dog with a bone. Detecting them or not detecting them on a ferry flight means nothing. And there's no way that we would say if we did or didn't, because that involves information on radar systems that isn't public knowledge.

this , we act like we cant detect them so they run around thinkin they are stealth all the while we are monitoring them, if we admit we can see them then they figure out how and its counterproductive.

a reply to: truthnlies

Or we buzz them, collect data on their capabilities and share with the Indians.

The Indians are really underwhelmed and cancel the contract with the Russians.

The Russians are then faced with having half the funding they had before to develop and manufacture them.

a reply to: anzha

Or the fact is that the US dident see shi##t. And all you people are arguing is nothing but fiction.....

If its like Z stated...what ever you people state is nothing but wishfull thinking. You people have no facts....

a reply to: spy66

And you do? Because according to you everything Russia says is Fact and Truth. Well come with your facts and back up what you say for a change.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Well. I am aksking you to prove them wrong.

But now... that is a national secret according to you so we wont know now will we.

So keep blowing hot American air Z...

a reply to: spy66

You think Russia would allow raw radar data from an A-50 to be released? Get real. They'd keep it as tightly held as we hold E-3 data. Especially if it involved stealth aircraft.

At least I'm willing to admit the USscrews thinggs up and has made a lot of mistakes, as well as admitting other countries make good equipment and shouldn't be under estimated. From your posting history Russia makes no mistakes.

a reply to: spy66

Perahap you are right. Perhaps not. My wild supposition has more support in the following actions by the Indians than what you are proposing.

We lack data either way and you are getting angry over an opposing view.

The only way to know one way or another is to see what the Russians do with the su-57. The indians.were rumored to be supplying half the budget for development. Their actions will speak louder than any press releases, glowing comments by fanboys or snarky comments by detractors.

Rogoway has come out to say that the Su-57 is about as stealthy as the Rhino. I suspect its stealthier than THAT, but not by a whole lot. I've been teasing folks about what's wrong with the Su-57 and you can see it plainly if you look closely. That bird is NOT very stealthy. Even in some of the latest pix of the latest Su-57 EMD aircraft, it has serious flaws for low RCS:

twitter.com...

However, Rogoway makes an interesting point. While the Su-57 is really just a reduced RCS aircraft (like the Rafale) and not a Low RCS Aircraft, it was designed to counter low rcs aircraft. he then makes a list of some of those things.

1. The Cheek radars: these are radars in the aircraft meant to be turned on at an angle and allow for the Su-57 to try to mess with the AESA radars on more advanced jets. It also allows for better situational awareness because they have radars pointing more than 'just' forward.

2. The IRST. This is meant to allow the Su-57 to look for stealth aircraft it can't see with the radars. Thermodynamics wins all wars, folks. FWIW, the F-22 was going to have one and it was cancelled for money reasons. The F-35 does, iirc.

3. Infrared countermeasures built in. This is useful to essentially jam heat seekers.

4. Supposedly, rough air fields. Traditionally, the Russians do like the ability to work off of rough air fields. I'm not convinced we have seen this demoed by the Su-57 yet, but I could be wrong.

5. 3d thrust vectoring. Meh. I think dog fights are really a thing of the past. Esp once the 6th gen and SHIELD gets deployed, but some people live, love and die on the idea that the more maneuverable wins the fight.

6. he also goes on about the weapon's bay lay out. I'm not convinced but could be.

The idea here is that the Russians clearly believe they cannot make a fighter that is the F-22. They tried to play to their strengths. The problem is, when it comes to a shooting war, as our friends the Blue Beanies stated as far back as the Gulf War, if you can see it, you can kill it.

The F-22 and F-35 will see the Su-57 first. That's bad for the Su-57.

Stealth isn't a panacea and its not magical. It DOES delay detection and that means everything in war.

And it seems the Chinese agree.

www.thedrive.com...

a reply to: anzha

For a first stealth, counter aircraft, it's a nice design. And it's maneuverable as hell, as are most Russian fighters. But it's not the oh my god aircraft that people want it to be. You don't go from "we've built some great 4th Gen aircraft" to "we've got a stealth better than the F-22" on your first try. There's a hell of a learning curve to stealth, no matter who you are.

Now, when it comes to the Su-57 and J-20 being used as counters to our tankers and support aircraft, using something like the new Chinese VLRAAM.... That gives me nightmares. And both can be built in the numbers that we can't stop, if they put their will to it.

a reply to: Zaphod58

It's not bad. Against anything other than ours and maybe the latest gen chinese it's top tier. The Chinese J-20 might detect the Su-57 first and get the shots off first.

I think I fear the J-20 a bit more. Less about head to head, F-22 vs J-20, but more about it being a great tanker & AWACS killer. If the Chinese can delay *US* detecting their J-20 until its in range of the AWACS and tankers with its VLRAAM, then we have serious problems.

a reply to: anzha

That's always been my big thing, is without tankers and support aircraft we're screwed. But the leadership knows better than everyone and it's all about getting their shiny stealth aircraft.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Could the tankers use SHIELD?

Where is the KC-Z sitting right now?

a reply to: anzha

They've tested a bolt on Guardian system for the -135, but it'll only give partial coverage. I haven't seen it go past the testing for the mount, but there's talk they're going to get SHIELD once it comes online.

If KC-Z goes as expected, we won't hear anything until someone catches one in the wild.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I wonder if we end up with something like hypersonic carriers that release a swarm of smaller missiles closer in to deal with the close-in weapon systems aircraft may end up with.

a reply to: anzha

We're about due a jump soon. It's been a long time since we've seen a real, wide scale tech leap. I'm waiting for that hypersonic announcement, but waiting for more than that.

a reply to: anzha

Rogoway has come out to say...

A lot of unsubstantiated and baseless things.