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India is Ending FGFA Participation

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posted on Apr, 21 2018 @ 09:42 AM
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India has been really unhappy with the FGFA program for some time now. The work share has not been what was promised. The price tag keeps going up. And, most recently, the Indians have become worried about the performance of the PAK-FA in general. Now, India has come out and stated they are done with the FGFA. The reason? Or at least one of them: the Indians feel the PAK-FA just isn't stealthy enough for a 5th gen fighter.

We have, as a group, had discussions over whether or not the PAk-FA was stealthy or even a true 5th fighter. It would seem the Indians have come to believe the Su-57 isn't one. What would be call it? A gen 4.9? I know Zaph has been pretty eye-rolly over the fighter gen concept, but...wow.

www.business-standard.com...




posted on Apr, 21 2018 @ 09:58 AM
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a reply to: anzha

I said a long time ago that they were going to kill it, and was told there was no way they would, and that they were getting even closer with the deal, and there was no way they were going to end it.



posted on Apr, 21 2018 @ 10:10 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

I do recall.

When it takes a crazy long time to closer a deal with the Indians, it greatly increases the likelihood of cancellation. While I feel they do take a long time due to their bureaucratic problems, this was above and beyond and signaled a desperate situation.

Recently, the Russians tried to fsck the Indians on multiple programs. The Indians are done with that.



posted on Apr, 21 2018 @ 10:41 AM
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China is building there own 5th generation fighter. What is India going to do instead?



posted on Apr, 21 2018 @ 10:44 AM
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a reply to: C0bzz

They're supposedly going to link their new AMCA fighter tender to future fifth generation fighters.



posted on Apr, 21 2018 @ 10:50 AM
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a reply to: C0bzz

the irony of Indas 'overseas' tech support frustrate them so much they hang up.


i get so many calls from people with an extremely loose grip on english start off by saying "my name is Steve, how can i help you?"

all i want to say is like man, your name is not steve....

India is no slouch so maybe they will take the knowledge they have paid for, and use it on their own program.



posted on Apr, 21 2018 @ 11:06 AM
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originally posted by: penroc3
a reply to: C0bzz

the irony of Indas 'overseas' tech support frustrate them so much they hang up.


i get so many calls from people with an extremely loose grip on english start off by saying "my name is Steve, how can i help you?"

all i want to say is like man, your name is not steve....

India is no slouch so maybe they will take the knowledge they have paid for, and use it on their own program.
That's exactly what the Chinese did.

Americans and Russians have indiginous Tech, not to say that china doesn't either, but inregards to advancement, china took what they learned and turned it into a driving force that pushed their country into the one of the top three powers on the Earth.

India almost mimics the path the chinese had to endure before its rise.

It would be wise for them to take what they learn and really push for indiginous advance tech. They shouldn't have any issues other then obstructionist of reform.

What are Indians known for?

Thread Drift - Final thought,

An ancient civilization, India, in conspiracy form, is an ancient technologically advance empire of the old age, before it reduced itself to a primitive state as a result of "nuclear" war or simply being caught between two larger forces blast radius. If those stories have any merit, with the Vimanas and all, they probably could reverse engineer any technology gleaned from scripture or digsite. Anyways, fantasy thinking but good greasy food for thought.



posted on Apr, 21 2018 @ 11:12 AM
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Last thing, why aren't any of you star and flagging this thread? Its obviously of interest and the common players here, wouldn't it not be wise to pay a bit of respect and reward the OP with a S+F?

Stars and Flags, for all its triviality, is good to promote a thread and something refreshing other then the burgeoning politics of the site.

I was was literally the only person that just S+F just this moment.
edit on 21-4-2018 by Arnie123 because: Spelling



posted on Apr, 21 2018 @ 11:23 AM
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I am surprised it took them so long. The way I see it, they've been mostly a cash cow (pun intended) for the project. The development has been firmly in Russian hands, despite India carrying 50% of the costs.



posted on Apr, 21 2018 @ 07:21 PM
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originally posted by: Arnie123
Last thing, why aren't any of you star and flagging this thread? Its obviously of interest and the common players here, wouldn't it not be wise to pay a bit of respect and reward the OP with a S+F?

Stars and Flags, for all its triviality, is good to promote a thread and something refreshing other then the burgeoning politics of the site.

I was was literally the only person that just S+F just this moment.


its all make believe.

a bunch of my numbers under my name were at zeros for close to ten years. cant spend internet points, sadly. but i added my s/f

ETA: i always thought people taking time and showing interest in similar things i find interesting more rewarding than a meaningless stat. i will admit it is nice to get stars but i come her to shoot the shiz. it would be interesting if we could see who gives stars and flags...that might cause people to get strange.
edit on 21-4-2018 by penroc3 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2018 @ 09:35 PM
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a reply to: moebius

There is a lot of politics involved I just like for us. They have factions in support of keeping their Russian ties. Others support going with French equipment. Those two are the dominant ones in their air force. Recently and increasingly, there has been interest in working with America. Until recently though, America and India were.not super friendly and even the personal ties were pretty limited until the 90s. Even then, some remember how their new light fighter was hurt by the sanctions for detonating their nuclear weapon: ge had to remove their engine participation and that really hurt the effort. They are concerned the us might react and leave the Indians hanging again.



posted on Apr, 21 2018 @ 11:55 PM
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How many Rafale are the Indians operating?

They may want to take their arrogant self important persona to a mirror and have a good hard look at themselves.

B...but we are a superpower with a thriving space program...whilst 2/3rds still defecate in the streets.

Let them build their own, on their own, not a fan of that nation in case you didn't pick that up.



posted on Apr, 22 2018 @ 12:15 AM
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India is the worlds largest democracy and a natural counterbalance to China. It's population will even exceed that of China in the coming decades. Love the food (well, Indian food here in Australia) and the people seem pretty decent too (just don't date the women as a white man, trust me I know from experience).

A history of staying relatively independent and without aggressive nationalism, at least from Indians that I have met.

Help them, it's in our interest.
edit on 22/4/18 by C0bzz because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 22 2018 @ 01:59 PM
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Not surprised at all about this announcement. Good thread, I was curious to see what the regulars here think of the whole PAK-FA debacle.


originally posted by: C0bzz
India is the worlds largest democracy and a natural counterbalance to China. It's population will even exceed that of China in the coming decades. Love the food (well, Indian food here in Australia) and the people seem pretty decent too (just don't date the women as a white man, trust me I know from experience).


Geopolitically, this is the strongest argument for the US to court India and prevent them from falling into China's orbit. It seems like a natural alliance for the US. Unfortunately, the current and past US leadership doesn't seem to see the wisdom in this and has instead fostered ties with Pakistan, of all places.
edit on 22-4-2018 by wirehead because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 22 2018 @ 10:18 PM
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a reply to: wirehead

India is unlikely to fall into China's orbit. However, if we fail to court India, the world could become Sinocentric by the end of the century. We pretty much have two choices, long term. We can become China's Russia: the pugnacious power that constantly flipping the bird to the big guy. Or we become Britain to India's America: develop a special relationship with the larger colingual nation and stand firm against China. Likewise, we ought to nurture similar ties to Nigeria, another nation with English as its pan national language.



posted on Apr, 24 2018 @ 01:14 AM
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Lists out some interesting flaws in the Su-57. The engine maintenance perked my ears.

www.thedrive.com...



posted on Apr, 28 2018 @ 07:10 AM
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a reply to: anzha

Su-57 shot.

What's wrong with the aircraft, guys? Not saying. I want to see if you all can figure out the...issues and why it matters.




posted on Apr, 28 2018 @ 07:32 AM
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a reply to: anzha

OLS ball?



posted on Apr, 28 2018 @ 07:41 AM
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a reply to: C0bzz

That's one.



posted on Apr, 28 2018 @ 08:40 AM
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a reply to: anzha

The cessna-style exposed rivets, non-stealthy joints for critical aerodynamic surfaces, etc?

I mean, it's not awful for a YF-22 style "flying kitbash" to prove the basic aerodynamics and performance of a new shape and aerodynamic configuration (that has already passed the pole tests in RCS model form), but for what is by all accounts an EMD aircraft, it's friggin pathetic, especially in light of what the Chinese are doing right now.



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