Manned Space Exploration...Why?

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I agree, I think we are not at a time in which the trouble of sending humans to a different planet outweighs the advantages.

One thing that makes space exploration look slow is the fact that, for obvious reasons, space missions tend to use relatively old systems that have shown to be reliable, and that's why we don't see state of the art AI on Mars rovers, for example, and also because of the time it takes to complete such missions up to the launch moment, what was state of the art in technology when the mission was approved is old when it finally launches.

If we look at what we knew about other planets 30 years ago and compare it with what we know now we can see that space exploration is doing fine, even if slower than we would like, but that happens with most things.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

We actually have the tech now to travel to the nearest star, in our current human form, within 80 years.

And that's using a propulsion system that was envisioned decades ago: Project Orion

We have the tech right now to send very small unmanned probes even faster (20 years) to Alpha Centauri

Part of us going to other places, isn't so much "us just getting there", it's the journey to make it possible to get there.

Think of the innovation that we as a species did in the very short time span during the space race to get to the Moon. We got there for the wrong reasons (national pride, etc) however even with the wrong reasons we learned a hell of a lot more about humans and space than we'd ever known before.

Terra forming a planet is hard. Not really necessary though, because you can just terra form small parts (doming over a large crater on Mars for example). But even that isn't necessary (O'Neill cylinders). However, the want and need to get there is simply part of the human spirit and imagination.

There was absolutely NO reason to go to the North Pole, the South Pole, or the Mariana Trench.

There is absolutely NO reason for anyone to ever climb to the top of Mt. Everest......yet they do.

There is no necessity for anyone to ever leave their home, which provides comfort, climate control, etc, and go camping out in the woods....in tents (and sometimes not even those) and yet people do.

Why bother to spend that money to travel to another country? Why not just buy books or heck, even use live web cams to see what is there? But people do spend that money and take that time to go to other countries and places around the world, simply so they can experience it for themselves.

It's in our nature to explore, to expand, to experience the unknown.

It for the same reason that we'll go out of our way to try a new food dish....to savor that taste of something we eat......when we could just make "food pills" and provide our bodies with everything we need....which would be boring as hell.

Humans are explorers over all. Our imaginations tug at us and make us want to go see, to feel, to listen, to just over all experience new and unknown things.

Just like exploring underwater......where robotic probes are cheaper and easier to use.....yet we still make crafts that can take people down there.

Simply because as a species: we got that darn travel bug in us.

a reply to: RAY1990

Good points.

Earth is not going to be here forever, we have to settle as far and as wide as possible if the human race is to survive.
It would be fantastic to improve life here on Earth, but we also need to think long-term, a killer comet or some other cosmic disaster will come along sooner or later, and we are all gone. Imagine everything gone; every person, every painting, piece of music, poetry, every movie, every TV show, every item of scientific knowledge ever gained...... all gone. All the works of Picasso, Mozart, The Beatles, Ballet, Galileo, Einstein. Gone, like they never existed at all.
So we have to spread out into space, if Mars or one of the moons of Saturn is the best we can do for now then fine, every little helps until we can
The longer we keep all of our eggs in this little basket called Earth, the longer we risk the longterm survival of the human race. Our ancestors did not have the capability of doing anything about it, but we do.

originally posted by: OneBigMonkeyToo
One is that however good your equipment is, it lacks peripheral vision and interpretive capability. It can't spot something and ask itself "whats that?" and go check it out. You need eyes on the ground, and our eyes are much better and make decisions faster.

You just need to add some AI, and although our eyes are much better at doing different jobs, specialised cameras are much better than our eyes at specialised jobs, that's why we use telescopes and microscopes.

The other is emotional. When you go to meet astronauts, or when you hear them interviewed, the most important question that people really want answering is "What did it feel like?". People want to understand the experience of being i such a unique position. Photographs or film are fine, but they don't explain the emotional response.

That's interesting, I never thought about that, probably because I don't care about what other people felt when they were doing their job. I don't care a bit about the personal experiences of astronauts.

I ask myself similar questions. Why do we think we will be welcomed in space? If we land on an inhabited planet, what do we have to offer? How can we possibly be perceived as anything but a threat?

We are banking on there not being any other planets inhabited with intelligent sentient beings. We are banking that there will be something we can mine or strip from the planet and eventuality screw it up.

Why do we think we will treat any other planet with any more respect or care than we do our own?

If there are sentient beings, how to we hope to get along with them when we can't find peace with the life forms on our own planet?

Last but not least, why do we think that they won't blow us up the moment we enter their atmosphere, that is surely what we would do?

Until man can get along peacefully with man, until man can respect and care for the planet we call home, we have no business infecting any outer space with our presence.

Of course, that is just my opinion.

a reply to: eriktheawful

Sure there were reasons to go to all those place you list...the spirit of adventure. And there's nothing wrong with that. But that's not really my point.

Traveling to the North Pole is a whole lot different than traveling to another planet. Traveling the top of Mt. Everest only takes a few (dozen) people; traveling to another planet takes tens of thousands of people. Traveling to the Marianas Trench took millions of dollars; traveling to another planet will take trillions of dollars. None of those things are even in the same league with traveling to another planet. And, if some people have the spare time, energy and money laying around to front the operation then fine, go for it. However, realistically speaking, going to colonize another planet is not a practical expectation. It's just not, not for humans anyway.

Great thread - biggest challenge is permanent damage to the human body in weightlessness.

I think optimal future travel would be done by avatars that are either AI or avatars that humans have uploaded their consciousness into, robot/human hybrid. Short of discovering wormholes, and these would be I guess one way trips.

But to the question as to why - its because man has a inquisitive spirit. Lebensraum - new horizons.


en.wikipedia.org...

the most important factor affecting human physical well-being in space is weightlessness, more accurately defined as Micro-g environment. Living in this type of environment impacts the body in three important ways: loss of proprioception, changes in fluid distribution, and deterioration of the musculoskeletal system.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Very good points!

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Great thread - biggest challenge is permanent damage to the human body in weightlessness. ...

Excellent point!!

And one I neglected to mention. Thank you!

a reply to: ArMaP

Yes, it's nearly impossible to argue the superiority of computers and robotic technology over that of a human when it comes to sheer performance of known tasks. Aviation is a great example here. Many modern military aircraft simply could not be flown manually by a pilot using old-school stick and rudder flying. Were it not for computers and robotics the pilots would simply not be able to control aircraft such as the B-2 Stealth (among others).

originally posted by: Moley
Earth is not going to be here forever, we have to settle as far and as wide as possible if the human race is to survive.
It would be fantastic to improve life here on Earth, but we also need to think long-term, a killer comet or some other cosmic disaster will come along sooner or later, and we are all gone. Imagine everything gone; every person, every painting, piece of music, poetry, every movie, every TV show, every item of scientific knowledge ever gained...... all gone. All the works of Picasso, Mozart, The Beatles, Ballet, Galileo, Einstein. Gone, like they never existed at all.
So we have to spread out into space, if Mars or one of the moons of Saturn is the best we can do for now then fine, every little helps until we can
The longer we keep all of our eggs in this little basket called Earth, the longer we risk the longterm survival of the human race. Our ancestors did not have the capability of doing anything about it, but we do.

Yep ... I have always thought earth was just an egg. We hatch and go forth or perish.... as all things born of an egg which never hatch.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk



Because, "to go where no robot has gone before" sounds pretty lame?

a reply to: Moley

And how does Voyager 1, launched in 1977, not already do this? Preserve those things?

The only thing Voyager 1 didn't do was...take the human along for the ride. And, frankly, the human could not have survived if they had been along for the ride.

So, why not send more 'Voyagers', or more modern craft, to Mars and elsewhere? Why not do all the things we're proposing to do with humans on Mars with automated machines instead which aren't so needy like the selfish human is? That mankind will ever colonize another planet is a pursuit of arrogance and ego.

Orbiting Earth is one thing, or establishing a habitat in space, but the expectation that mankind can ever colonize another planet is just simply unrealistic.

a reply to: burgerbuddy

LOL!

You forgot "boldly".

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: Moley

And how does Voyager 1, launched in 1977, not already do this? Preserve those things?

The only thing Voyager 1 didn't do was...take the human along for the ride. And, frankly, the human could not have survived if they had been along for the ride.

So, why not send more 'Voyagers', or more modern craft, to Mars and elsewhere? Why not do all the things we're proposing to do with humans on Mars with automated machines instead which aren't so needy like the selfish human is? That mankind will ever colonize another planet is a pursuit of arrogance and ego.

Orbiting Earth is one thing, or establishing a habitat in space, but the expectation that mankind can ever colonize another planet is just simply unrealistic.

Personally, I think hands on exploration is just built in to us.

A need for the "boots on the ground" so to speak.

Nothing else will do.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: burgerbuddy

LOL!

You forgot "boldly".

LOL, I did, didn't I!

DoH!

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Great thread - biggest challenge is permanent damage to the human body in weightlessness. ...

Excellent point!!

And one I neglected to mention. Thank you!

It's not a problem it's a challenge

Think of all the disease we've eradicated, diseases that once ravaged large percentages of human populations.

I've come to the opinion that when humans finally venture to the stars we won't be homo sapiens, we'll be a new and augmented speciesmore than capable of tackling the challenges we may face.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

An expensive dream.

Our own planet is still a mystery to us. Our oceans cover more of our planet than land and we have not fully explored them. I would like to see some of that pioneer spirit being used to fully explore our own planet, and maybe we would learn how to undo some of the damage that we have done to Mother Earth.

I love the watching the sky, and I too am curious about what lies above. I am just more curious about what lies beneath.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Bingo!