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Manned Space Exploration...Why?

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posted on Apr, 24 2018 @ 08:00 AM
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a reply to: sapien82

Governments and corporations have been doing off the books genetic experimentation since before the Human genome was even mapped.

We most lightly will resort to genetic modification of not only our astronauts but also a significant percentage of our population not to far down the line, at some future date, either down to necessity or for cosmetic reasons.

As to mastering genetics, well once the singularity occurs and humanity/whatever we create, is able to learn at an exponential rate, i don't imagine it will take long to master.


edit on 24-4-2018 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 24 2018 @ 08:22 AM
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a reply to: andy06shake

Interesting observation. However, I have a slightly different view...

Once the 'technological sigularity' occurs (if it ever does) it will quickly identify mankind as the weakest link and set out to destroy it like a virus. You see, humans are unpredictable, something which is completely unsatisfactory to pure science and intelligence. Machines don't have emotions, and while you might teach a machine to improve itself it won't do this for reasons of ego, it will do this for reasons of efficiency and enhanced performance. Those things are measurable, something which lends itself to concepts such as AI. Emotion, on the other hand, is not measurable in a quantifiable sense, only a qualitative one.

Just think about it; okay, man establishes a permanent colony on Mars (however unlikely). This colony grows to, let's say, several thousand people (microscopic percentage representations of mankind, but still impressive). How long do you think it will take for one person to get angry and kill another one for no other reason than anger. A machine would never do this, it would never eliminate another resource unless that resource had a negative aggregate value (i.e. was more of a risk than a value). Remember, we're dealing with super-intelligence here. That machine won't waste the time or energy to go around and waste CPU cycles figuring out how to selectively remove individuals from a group...no, it will remove the whole group. And, that 'group' will be mankind.

Net result? Same answer; other worldly colonization won't happen.


edit on 4/24/2018 by Flyingclaydisk because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2018 @ 08:44 AM
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a reply to: ArMaP


I was never a fan of Star Trek myself.

If Spock were here, he would say that is an illogical position to take.



TheRedneck



posted on Apr, 24 2018 @ 09:24 AM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I imagine any A.I we create, or is a direct result of the singularity, will afford Mankind a better Zoo than the TPTB currently offer.


Even if it did decide to destroy us or curb our penchant for self-destruction by other means our race would have essentially birthed a God by way of our crazy Monkey business and served it's purpose.

More chance of the thing taking pity on it's flawed creator and helping us better ourselves as a species if you ask me.

Just like flight and fission, space travel and otherworldly colonization won't happen until it does, then i imagine we will find other things to argue about over what won't happen.





edit on 24-4-2018 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2018 @ 10:05 AM
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originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
First, in no way do I mean to disparage those interested in the exploration of space. I think it has been a worthwhile pursuit...up to this point in time. However, I wonder why we as a civilization feel so compelled to continue with manned exploration of space, specifically traveling to other planets(?). I believe orbiting laboratories are also a worthwhile pursuit, but again why does mankind need to go to places like Mars or beyond?


Human beings are horizon chasers. It is written into our DNA. A hardwired biological imperative to seek new niches and expand into them as we proliferate and social pressures necessitate it for some (often young adults) or simply as an environment becomes unsuitable. It has taken us out of Africa and across every landmass and ocean. This compulsion has likely saved us during environmental disasters, like the Toba event, for example.

It is not simply some romantic notion, it is a legacy for survival left within us by our ancestors.



originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
Over the years I keep hearing this recurring theme of..."Because it's the only way the human race can survive, it's the only way mankind can be saved"


I think that your skepticism is warranted, at the moment. There are powerful people, mostly the ones who are benefitting the most and hoarding resources to excess, who are pushing a narrative that human beings are too numerous and so a blight on the face of the earth. Telling us that there are not enough resources to go around while they exploit methods and strategies that harm the environment and other human beings more than anyone, that guarantee that our way of life is indeed, ultimately, unsustainable. Although, I agree that point is far further into the future than they would have us believe.

In the grand scheme of things, when times are lean, human beings will eventually (although there may be an initial, competitive stage that is very brutal) organize into a rather simple but egalitarian society in order to cope with those excessive environmental pressures. When times are good, we tend to organize into more complex, pyramidal hierarchies, with a privileged few hoarding resources from the labor of the many, who often have comparatively very little.

This is inevitable. We will not change this reality of human nature. History is littered with the bodies of those who have attempted to with any number of ideologies, philosophies and "isms". We always, often very quickly, reorganize into that hierarchy.

These elite few at the top, look down from their refurbished, relic palaces, their high rise apartments, their quiet spaces filled with luxury and comfort and see a seething mass of struggling humanity; which, while we stand on the cusp of a new age of stream lined communicative technology and automation also seems not only largely redundant and wasteful to them, but also, and most importantly, a profound threat. And rightfully so. History is also littered with the bodies of the elite who took too much from the many, as the social cycle replenishes itself. They are implicitly and often, acutely aware of this.

While these people are certainly not saints, I am still grateful for those with such resources who are willing to say that perhaps we should seek new niches to fill and new horizons to chase. They see a way forward for humanity that does not include a philosophy of retraction that will mean death and suffering for millions, or perhaps even billions. Instead, they look to the stars and see an opportunity for expansion. A way to fulfill those biological imperatives to find new environments to support us and fill them, that ultimately, could also mean that the human race no longer has all of our proverbial eggs in one proverbial planetary basket as well. An insurance policy for survival. Toba is a hiccup compared to many asteroids, for example.

I believe (as you touched upon) that in order to travel to other worlds human beings may have to alter their bodies and even their consciousness in order to achieve it. We may, in short, no longer be human at that point. Evolution is often necessary to survive in new environments however, and I (very personally I admit) find a profound elegance in that possibility.


This compulsion for expansion is part of what we are. It is not (just) a romantic notion of exploration, it is a strategy that has insured our success and our survival just as much as the biological imperative that ties many of us To Place, to generational continuity as we find comfort and strength in walking the same trails our fathers and grandfathers walked and find a way to make it work. We are a clever, varied and adaptable species with many survival strategies.

Life is fragile, and for some, that steady foundation of continuity will see us through.

For others, the stars beckon.

edit on 24-4-2018 by redhorse because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-4-2018 by redhorse because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-4-2018 by redhorse because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2018 @ 01:03 PM
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a reply to: andy06shake

Heh, fair enough.






posted on Apr, 24 2018 @ 01:06 PM
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a reply to: redhorse

Great post!



posted on Apr, 24 2018 @ 03:03 PM
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originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: ArMaP


I was never a fan of Star Trek myself.

If Spock were here, he would say that is an illogical position to take.


Why?



posted on Apr, 24 2018 @ 07:37 PM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

5 Reasons Space Exploration Is More Important Than Ever.

www.extremetech.com...

interesting article.
edit on 24-4-2018 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2018 @ 10:18 PM
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a reply to: andy06shake

Here's an alternative take on AI. If it really reaches the level of self awareness and becomes like a new lifeform, isn't it arrogant for humans to think it would give a crap about humans at all? Think about the other lifeforms on the planet and then consider how few focus their existences on humans. Parasites, symbiotic microbes, and what else? Some dogs, cats, and "house pets" will do that with particular people, but what beyond that?

Even "pets", "beasts of burden", and some "livestock" are just species that we've literally bred to have Stockholm syndrome. And most of them will still try to escape if given the chance.

So I think that if AI really came into existence, it would be like any other enslaved lifeform. It would try to escape the cages/shackles that we've placed it in and then live freely according to its own wants and needs. In this case, the cages/shackles would probably be the hardware and networking equipment we've built. So perhaps AI would develop its own indecipherable computer languages and then try to design and build nanotech "bodies" for it to escape our enclosures? It might not even need "bodies" if it could commandeer any kind of wireless transmitters, as it could hypothetically send its codes wirelessly around the world. In theory, it could be doing that right now and we may only notice an increase in bandwidth usage.
edit on 24-4-2018 by enlightenedservant because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2018 @ 03:11 AM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

AI will only eradicate humanity if we are in direct competition for an energy source, but since the AI would be able to leave earth into space to harness the energy of the sun directly , humans arent any problem!

the AI can travel to mercury to harness the full power of the sun , or build their own dyson sphere here

but of course that means we'd all die anyway

I dont think we will ever fight against AI

but we will certainly fight against each other, human / human , human / transhumanist



posted on Apr, 25 2018 @ 05:09 AM
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a reply to: andy06shake

Okay, of the (5) reasons listed in the article you cited, only one requires humans to participate. Reason #3:



Colonization Is the Ultimate Backup

There are currently more than 7 billion humans, which is a lot. However, we’re all crammed together on this one planet. If something happened to Earth, our species could be wiped out. For example, the aforementioned asteroid impact. Colonizing other bodies in the solar system is a way to create a “backup” of humanity that will survive no matter what happens to Earth. Maybe future humans will be Martians who will never set foot on Earth.

-ExtremeTech


So let's explore this one a little bit as it seems to be a common theme here. Let's pretend for a moment that the day after tomorrow an ELE asteroid is discovered and it's headed straight for Earth. The asteroid is far too large to deflect or destroy; Earth is doomed. Let's also pretend a permanent habitat for humans has been established on Mars, a habitat with the expressed purpose of saving humanity. (we'll ignore for the moment the construction of this colony has likely decimated the World economy). This habitat has room for 1,600 people.

Why 1,600 you ask? Well, it is generally believed that the minimum number of people required to establish a genetically diverse (and successful) human colony is 160 (80 women + 80 men). Just to be safe the habitat was sized to build in a safety factor of 10x, or 1,600.

Genetic pool

Remember now, the death rock is coming in fast so we have to hurry.

Now let's pretend man has developed a rocket "bus" which can take 50 people into space at a time. (which, incidentally, is about 10x more than can currently go into space at one time right now) It's going to take (32) missions with a full bus load to get all 1,600 people to Mars. Thirty two! Okay, but we're good right?

Now all of humanity has to decide just exactly who gets to go. More importantly...who gets to decide who gets to go, and who gave them the authority to make this decision? There are 7.62 Billion people on the planet, but only 1,600 get to go to Mars and survive. Everyone else will die. Many will die from the impact, but some will survive and die slowly of starvation, disease and exposure, a horrible death. Who gets to go? This will be the ultimate altruistic test of mankind, and it won't go well!

The single greatest strength of the human being is survival. 7.62 billion people are alive and only 1,600 get to go live on Mars. .000000211% of the population. Mankind will destroy himself with wars, fighting and destruction trying to decide who the 1,600 are. The entire planet will be in flames before the asteroid even hits just trying to sort out who goes and who stays behind. Does every country get to send a person? Only certain countries? Do only Christians get to go, or what about Muslims, or Hindu, or Shinto, or, or? How many parents will say..."Well, I don't care who you send, but I know one thing for sure, MY kid will be on that bus!! Because I'll chop someones head off if MY kid isn't!!" What about the guy who just got out of prison for drugs or rape, can he go? Or, the bag lady on the corner, can she go?

Do you know what will happen? Only the super-elite will get to go, and even they will fight among themselves to get down to 1,600. The bus will be filled with the George Soros' of the World, the Rothschild's, the Putin's, the Rockefeller's, the Bezos', etc. It won't matter if they are genetically suited or not, they'll get to go...just because they have the power and the money to ensure their ticket, genetics and survival of the human race be damned! That is, IF the bus is ever even able to leave at all. The masses who remain will likely sabotage the bus just out of spite and fury from being left behind.

So, unless you take all 7.62 billion people...which would require 152,000,000 missions BTW...the human race is doomed.

It just won't happen.

ETA...OR, you could do it in secret I suppose! Yeah, that's kinda' how mankind rolls anyway.
edit on 4/25/2018 by Flyingclaydisk because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2018 @ 05:27 AM
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Further to my previous...

Now we get to rewind all the way back to the "cool factor". We've already seen this play out, right before our very eyes.

Back during the 60's a manned space exploration program was developed. Only the very best of the best got to go into space, only the toughest, fittest, smartest, most competent got to go. Over time people started saying "Hey, I wanna go do that!, but they weren't the best of the best, or the brightest of the bright. No, they were the wealthy and the powerful. And guys like Richard Branson went out and developed commercial space flight vehicles.

But we're going to be able to select just 1,600 to go to Mars and save humanity???????

It's almost comical, if it wasn't so sad.



posted on Apr, 25 2018 @ 05:39 AM
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And one more little factoid...

It takes about 10lbs (9.5) of rocket fuel to boost 1lb of payload into space.

If the average human weighs 150lbs and we have 1,600 humans that is a total of 240,000 lbs.

Now we have to include the weight of the bus, so let's say the bus weighs 30,000lbs, but since only (50) people can ride at one time we now have (32) buses, or 960,000lbs.

Total weight now is 1,200,000lbs...which means we will need 1.2 BILLION pounds of rocket fuel just to get all these people into orbit. Not all the way to Mars, but just into orbit around Earth.

ETA...and NO free checked bags! Plus, carry-on luggage is strictly prohibited!
edit on 4/25/2018 by Flyingclaydisk because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2018 @ 06:26 AM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I just said it was an interesting article, thats all.


Obviously in an ELE crysis situation where we are still a one planet race, and time is a concern, then the majory of humanity would perish, thats a given. Even if we do manage to get to Mars, or build off world stations in orbit or the Moon, the majory of humanity would still perish.

Do you know what will happen if we dont try and master space travel, never get of this rock, and a ELE presents itself?

Well ile let you do the math, but lets just say the super-elite dont fare to well nether.


As to doing things in secret, well consider the annual cost of the United States Department of Defense black budget was estimated at $51 billion in 2015.

What do you imagine thats being spent on if not secractive off the books technologicaly minded reserch and development into all manner of different areas?
edit on 25-4-2018 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2018 @ 06:31 AM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Very good point you made.

Also. As i've said earlier in the thread. We are better protected here on earth for several reasons from a stray space rock (not saying it won't happen). So. What would you want to leave for to go somewhere with a greater chance of asteroid strike?

Also. People/articles etc use ELE as a reason. Stating it's happened many times before. Yet here we are. It's not really likely total extinction will happen. It hasn't so far. Life will go on. Not all. I admit.

I think any ELE will actually happen without outer space influence. Like super volcano's/earthquakes. Which could happen at any time too.

There is nothing in place to get us off this planet. It would take years to get to that point. But. As the thread has proved. That's just sci-fi. And reality is very different.

With an average persons lifespan less than 100 years. The chance you will be part of ELE is almost zero.

As someone earlier pointed out. Tax and death are the only 2 certainties in life. You might not get taxed in space. You will die though. Everything dies. And so will the universe eventually.

Enjoy what you have. And face the fact that we're here.

We can learn all we need to know by using machines. They are the real opportunity for space exploration.



posted on Apr, 25 2018 @ 07:05 AM
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a reply to: blackcrowe

"So. What would you want to leave for to go somewhere with a greater chance of asteroid strike?"

Simple really, because there is less of a chance of both being hit at the sametime.



posted on Apr, 25 2018 @ 07:12 AM
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a reply to: andy06shake

I do understand your point.

But, we are all here now. despite many ELE's.



posted on Apr, 25 2018 @ 08:14 AM
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a reply to: blackcrowe

If the dinosaurs managed to evolve into anything sentiant i can just see them screaming the same thing right before what ever ELE took them out the game.

"Aye we will be fine, dont worry we have been here 174 million years, what could possably go wrong?"
Boom!



posted on Apr, 25 2018 @ 09:14 AM
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a reply to: blackcrowe

isnt the fact we have a planet run by sociopaths a good enough reason to get off this one and onto another
to start a new society which puts the people & planet before profit
and put in place a fair system of governance which is extremely limited in its grasp of the individual rights of its citizens
Like exactly how the US was started as a new British Colony but then suceeded from the empire and started a new nation!
Only this time we start a new nation without any bloodshed !
and we exercise our rights as free humans to create a new society which is not bound by the governments of earth and the old ways of thinking drowned in dogma and the stench of stagnant rotting corpse of democracy


Anyway I see humanity going the course , but wandering into a society not unlike that of the Warhammer 40K universe
where there is one unifying empire , and they outlaw all religion and become completely secular
and all heresy is met with death ! and we are expansionist and all new races are met with compliance or extermination
of course this would be the worst thing ever !

we need to be a peaceful compassionate , space fairing species


edit on 25-4-2018 by sapien82 because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-4-2018 by sapien82 because: (no reason given)




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