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Autism.Asbergers.ADHD spectrum

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posted on Apr, 20 2018 @ 03:55 PM
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Genuine questioning topic so don't get all arsey and pissed off by my anecdotal observations.

Every documentary/news piece I see on kids with such diagnosis it is always a single mother parent. No dad on the scene offering dad 'justice'.
I was just watching one now, the 12 year old was effectively beating his mother up and there was nothing she could do.

So how have all these diagnosis become a thing?
I can't comment for the US but I know some members will suggest diet etc because you sell your citizens #ty additive ridden food which the EU doesn't. That said, why the 'explosion' of diagnosis in the UK when our food is so different to yours?

My gut instinct is lack of fear.
Lack of fear of dad, or mam's partner.

I have friends who are highly autistic and all of them at some point have got arsey with me me and I've replied with something like "Do that again and I'll knock you the # out you cheeky #" or similar. It's amazing, functioning autistic people understand fear of having a smack in the face if they attack me. 100% success rate, no need for therapy, just an understanding that if you do X or Y then expect me to react in a way I would to anyone treating me like a prick.
70's/80's/90's Britain kids knew that, and there were much fewer kids with a 'diagnosis' because fear of punishment, or rather reasonable force and defence against violent behaviour, so they behaved.

Call me a prick who doesn't understand the finer points of welfare for people on the spectrum, but it is a fact that every person I've ever met who is claimed to be on the spectrum behaves themself with me because they don't want a violent defensive reaction. Every person I've ever met in fact, look in the eye "don't try your # with me" and they behave.

I'm not calling for corporal punishment, but they understand fear of violence so if they are acting violently I genuinely think the lack of fathers on the scene is a contributing factor.
I told a guy the other day he was milking his autism, and I saw in his eyes he knew he'd been sprung.
All thoughts welcome, including outraged parents of children on the spectrum.
edit on 20-4-2018 by CornishCeltGuy because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 20 2018 @ 04:07 PM
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None of that was ever an excuse when I was coming up. I was diagnosed with ADD and that was back during the Ritalin craze...which is awful stuff. I got my ass spanked all the time and even now I remember picking and choosing my disobedience based on if I felt it was worth the punishment. So yes in my opinion a real physical consequence does have merit.

I am sure though you will have many stopping by who will say it doesn't and it is cruel and horrible, but all the lessons I learned the hard way stuck with me and all the times I was babied through something never really helped me.



posted on Apr, 20 2018 @ 04:07 PM
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There is a legitimate or are legitimate conditions. I have worked with kids who have them, but I think they are rarer than the actual rate of diagnosis.

For one thing, a lot of younger kids react with hyper-active/inattentive behaviors as a symptom to almost anything. When there doesn't seem to be a quick fix, they tend to get labeled as ADD/ADHD. The reality if that ADD/ADHD is supposed to be a diagnosis of elimination, meaning that everything else it could possibly be has been ruled out first. And since it could possibly be a LOT of other things, it means there really shouldn't be a lot of ADD/ADHD kids.

Our son started magically showing what the teacher was aching to label as ADD?ADHD symptoms all of a sudden last year. Turns out that he was finally hitting a wall with an undiagnosed learning disability. Diagnose the real issue, and all of a sudden, the ADD/ADHD symptoms dial way back to him simply being an active little boy again.

There are also quite a few things that have symptoms that are either very similar or overlap. For example, a really gifted kid can develop a real area of intense intellectual interest similar to an Aspy. The two things can look almost identical and lead to misdiagnosis.

As a parent, it's your job to trust your gut a lot of the time and know for certain who is diagnosing your child. Sure they may be professionals, but not all professionals are very experienced with certain types of kids and certain conditions, and as the parents who has raised him or her, *you* will ultimately always know them best because a lot of diagnosis also boils down to knowing the child.

**EDIT**

However, nothing does replace discipline and routine for a child. They like to have boundaries and know what they are, even if that means all they seem to do is test them. Those things provide a sense of security which is important for a kid.
edit on 20-4-2018 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 20 2018 @ 04:14 PM
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a reply to: RickyD

Wow, thanks for the honest reply

...as I said, I'm not advocating corporal punishment, but anyone on the spectrum thinking they can get away with violence it ain't happening.
And in my experience, everyone on the spectrum who I've ever had dealings with understands that full well.
Autistic does not = stupid.



posted on Apr, 20 2018 @ 04:15 PM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Asperger's syndrome is just a made up condition... for people that don't like making eye contact with strangers and who refuse to comply with social norms, due to a superiority complex, which convinces them they're 'above' the common folk.

I do love what Hollywood has done with the mythical condition though... Sheldon Cooper on 'The big bang theory' and Abed on 'Community', are totally bad arse...



posted on Apr, 20 2018 @ 04:19 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Agreed, discipline and routine is the way forward, and in my experience the key with boys on the spectrum when they try it on with their own violence. They need to then know that someone is harder than them.
100% success rate with all autistic people in my life, no 'meltdowns' when you're # scared that the bloke you attacked will knock you out. People on the spectrum are not stupid lol.



posted on Apr, 20 2018 @ 04:30 PM
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I think you're confused about what autism is and how it works.



posted on Apr, 20 2018 @ 04:32 PM
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a reply to: trollz

Feel free to educate me, I'm an open book always willing to learn.
EDIT
I can only express anecdotal stories, but no 'spectrum' child who is violent to their mother is violent to me...they back down.
That speaks volumes to me about understanding losing a fight while picking a fight with mothers.
edit on 20-4-2018 by CornishCeltGuy because: (no reason given)


EDIT
Best reply I could have read...

originally posted by: RickyD
None of that was ever an excuse when I was coming up. I was diagnosed with ADD and that was back during the Ritalin craze...which is awful stuff. I got my ass spanked all the time and even now I remember picking and choosing my disobedience based on if I felt it was worth the punishment. So yes in my opinion a real physical consequence does have merit.

I am sure though you will have many stopping by who will say it doesn't and it is cruel and horrible, but all the lessons I learned the hard way stuck with me and all the times I was babied through something never really helped me.

edit on 20-4-2018 by CornishCeltGuy because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 20 2018 @ 04:51 PM
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originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: trollz

Feel free to educate me, I'm an open book always willing to learn.
EDIT
I can only express anecdotal stories, but no 'spectrum' child who is violent to their mother is violent to me...they back down.
That speaks volumes to me about understanding losing a fight while picking a fight with mothers.


Well first, the reason it's called a "spectrum" is because it ranges in severity. Some people on the autism spectrum are functional and able to interact with others, which are the people you have met. But have you met autistic individuals who are on the severe end and nonfunctional? These individuals may be completely unable to comprehend social cues or verbal communication, and hitting them or otherwise causing fear in them would have absolutely no positive effect on their condition or behavior. There are people in the world who do not understand communication and cues as you or I do. Someone could be acting like a total asshole to you and you could tell them you'll smack them if they don't knock it off, but that person could potentially be unable to relate the two things together. There are people in the world who simply wouldn't be able to understand the connection between their behavior and you saying you'll smack them if they don't stop. This discrepancy, difficulties with interaction and communication, is one component of autism disorders.



posted on Apr, 20 2018 @ 04:56 PM
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originally posted by: trollz
But have you met autistic individuals who are on the severe end and nonfunctional?

Yes, and when they get violent they still understand fear of being hurt if they instigate violence.
Stop giving them a hall pass for being a prick to other people, even non functional understands fear of violence.
Even folk in secure units know how to behave if they don't want to be restrained.
You are desperate for an argument lol

EDIT
...and yes I'll defend myself vociferously against any violent person on the spectrum. But this thread is about regular functioning people on the spectrum, not 'non-functioning' as you lamely tried to deflect with.


edit on 20-4-2018 by CornishCeltGuy because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 20 2018 @ 05:07 PM
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originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
Yes, and when they get violent they still understand fear of being hurt if they instigate violence.

Even folk in secure units know how to behave if they don't want to be restrained.

This is absolutely false. Some people are unable to relate the two. Consider a person who is so severely mentally retarded that they have no comprehension of how to even tie shoes. Do you think this person understands what the consequences of their actions are? But yet they're still human, are they not? Humans exist along a wide range of ability and intellect. Some people aren't able to understand things that others naturally can.



posted on Apr, 20 2018 @ 05:17 PM
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a reply to: trollz

Most people I've ever met on the whole spectrum understand don't be violent or X person will be violent back at ya.
You are referring to severely mentally disabled people. I am not.
Autistic/Asperger people understand fear of violence back in defence full well, but deny that if you wish.

EDIT
I have young autistic friends who I have helped raise to adulthood, and I've always been harsh, blunt, and honest with them, not pandering to their wishes, setting routine and rules.
...and don't try getting violent with me because I'll punch you back in the face to defend myself, that's always been my general rule.
edit on 20-4-2018 by CornishCeltGuy because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 20 2018 @ 05:48 PM
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originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Asperger's syndrome is just a made up condition... for people that don't like making eye contact with strangers and who refuse to comply with social norms, due to a superiority complex, which convinces them they're 'above' the common folk.

I do love what Hollywood has done with the mythical condition though... Sheldon Cooper on 'The big bang theory' and Abed on 'Community', are totally bad arse...


It was known that only children who had lost their fathers during the war, were more likely to suffer from Aspergers. It's not due to a superiority complex, but simply due to them never having anyone to practice socializing with. They just did their own thing through lack of social contact. Parents never having parties meant they never had any practise learning from children older than themselves or their parents; boys copy their dads, girls copy their mothers.
Nothing physiological or mental but just a lack of social experience.



posted on Apr, 20 2018 @ 06:01 PM
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a reply to: stormcell

All kids on that wild autism/asbergers/adhd spectrum in my anecdotal experience are mainly raised solely by their mother.
Certainly all the 'spectrum' boys of my female mates are more behaved when I'm around, or any other male mates for that matter, they ain't stupid.



posted on Apr, 20 2018 @ 06:22 PM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

I have ADD and I definitely had a dad around growing up.



posted on Apr, 20 2018 @ 06:23 PM
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a reply to: hombero

Ah good, made me smile

EDIT
Would you have acted violently to people if you knew they would be violent back?
Genuine question.
ADD doesn't mean you fail to understand self preservation from immediate harm because of your choices.
edit on 20-4-2018 by CornishCeltGuy because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 20 2018 @ 07:09 PM
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Not all kids progress at the same rate. When they start classifying a kid that is slower as having one of this disorders when real young, the kid does not learn to progress as well. Under a year is way to young to diagnose this, so is under two years. I know some people who had kids diagnosed with autism and because of the diagnosis the kids got screwed up. One of the parents just quit the program and at the time of kindergarden the kid was almost like the others. It just took him a tad bit longer to adjust. The boy is not super smart, he has to work a little harder, but he is doing fine, in fact he does really well in a few subjects, ones he has interest in.

If someone does not have interest in something, they are not going to learn. That is not a disease, it is a defiance against social conditioning. Not everyone needs to be a rocket scientist, we need jobs for those who are not so smart and we need to teach those with these conditions that they need to follow the protocol set by society, not cop out of it. I think our society has gone nuts. Just because someone can't create technology or work at office jobs does not mean they need to be classified as having an issue like this. Yes, there are some kids with these conditions where it does cause problems. But I feel only one tenth of the kids classified as having these conditions need treatment. You do not keep feeding a kid with ADHD candy, cake, cookies, and soda pops, they will get all strung out. Diet can help some of these people, kids with some of the ADD like problems can actually think better if they start by having a cup of coffee, not loaded with sugar either.

I have gone for therapy more than I ever should have in the past. I was a construction worker, I am used to getting hurt and shaking it off and continuing to work at the same time. I did not need those therapies I was sent to. Maybe someone who sits behind a desk needs to do that stuff, I thought it was rediculous, just give me a boflex to work with and I can do a much better job. A simple one therapy to show me what I should be doing works, they had me going for six months, it was a big inconvenience making those appointments. I had good insurance, they saw me as a cash cow I think.



posted on Apr, 20 2018 @ 07:41 PM
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a reply to: rickymouse

Cash cow same as some parents who milk add or adhd whatever naughty kids are called these days.



posted on Apr, 20 2018 @ 08:48 PM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Single mum to a boy with autism here. He also has epilepsy - which was a red flag for me because the only other person in my family that had it was a great-great-great grand aunt who died in an asylum from it at age 19. Epilepsy has high co-morbidity rates with those on the spectrum.

Buddy was mostly all about violence and lashing out specificially when people were not following order, or the rules. Or in his personal space. He has both high sensory avoidance, and high sensory seeking (right?!) and I've figured out his triggers. By no means do I shield him, gradual exposure to triggers helps build resilience - something he really (and all of us!) needs before he goes out into the big world on his own.

Finding the diagnosis has been an uphill battle here - many concerned people here (but not on his fathers side of the family) and his school and kinder and child nurse was also concerned - but since diagnosis towards the end of last year we have got things in place and a new understanding. Proof? Why this year so far he has zoomed ahead in his academic performance, is actually interacting with his peers, and developing far better resilience to stressors - he's not being sent home from school every day now.

Don't get me wrong, it's not all sunshine and rainbows here still, there are some days were it's just not working - he needs to be in his own space and recharge. He's better off at home with me those days - and not at school becoming a risk to others safety.

Disclipline wise it's been difficult - I was raised in a home where corporal punishment was the norm, and a father and sibling that had no qualms beating you even if you really didn't do anything wrong (dad was an alkie, but mostly lashed out in non-physical ways) and I still carry those emotional scars, but I for the life of me never wanted my kids to feel how I did. So I don't punish Buddy with a smack. He gets punishment with taking stuff away - but my focus is really on rewarding good behaviour and good choices - which I see as really effective.

His father and I broke up when I was a few months pregnant - I personally cannot stand him for a multitude of reasons and one day I might go into it here for advice seeking. But I recognise he and my son have every right to have a relationship so he sees his dad every second weekend (he lives in another city) and part of every holidays. We usually swap each christmas too. His father also comes to school events too - for Buddy. And yammer away about Pokemon on the phone. What does break my heart is sometimes my son articulates his displeasure in his father (I don't badmouth him in front of buddy) for similar reasons I find.

Anyway - buddy's autism isn't going to be a card for him to hold out to use as an excuse for everything. He's under 10 and we have a few solid years left to get him able to deal with high school and then hopefully life after.

And a side note : Not all kids on the spectrum are like my boy - some have other co-morbidities that make their situation more complex.

Edit: Also to add - it is possible that your female friends kids behave that way around you because they don't feel "safe" to be themselves and let out their emotions, they bottle it up and let loose later OR - you are adhering to their requirements of routine and order


Some times Buddy does his hardest to contain his emotions... and as soon as he gets home with me it's a volcanic explosion. Not so much these days - he can tell me "I need to have some alone time"


edit on 20-4-2018 by auroraaus because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 20 2018 @ 10:01 PM
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a reply to: trollz

Your reply was spot on.

My daughter was completely lost in school. She had lots fo friends but loved being the clown. She never seemed to understand school work. I had her checked by doctors and every "psychologist/psychiatrist" said she was ADD; like her brother who turned out to be a genius and not ADD at all.

Finally, met a psychologist who said something was "off" and recommended an audiologist. Turns out she was severely CAPD or there was a disconnect between what her ears heard and her brain comprehended what it heard. She was born this way-we knew she had a little speech defect but she had til age 12 learned coping skills- but just sitting in a lecture and she was lost. It cost her so much including friends. Schools were sued and we won because they refused to follow what the doctors said she needed like earphones to hear only the teacher and not all the white noise; writing down school assignments, etc.

It is still a little understood problem but the school tried to force me to treat her with ritalin. I knew better by then because her older brother had been diagnosed as ADD because he never did homework, was extremely bored, but aced every test. They did test his iq which was around 140. I have such guilt that he took ritalin. He said it made him feel not like himself.
Finally, during a school ip after the teachers had left the table, the county school school psychiatrist told me to get him out of school and into college, at 16. So I did.

Long story why he was made to take ritalin (because of his father who I divorced but as soon as I moved 1000 miles away) and my son wanted off ritalin so I took him off. He became his happy active fun self again and I was happy because he was happy again.

You have to listen to your gut and never give up.

No, they were never suspected on autism, but trying to control them through fear is utterly cruel and ridiculous.

Every child is different with different needs. It's your job as a parent to know them and their particular needs. I sincerely doubt beating or threatening to beat your child will get you the behavior you desire. You don't need to be a parent; we have enough abusive parents as it is.




edit on 20-4-2018 by Justso because: (no reason given)




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