It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Why do we continue to suffer Original Sin, if Jesus redeemed us on the Cross?

page: 1
6
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 19 2018 @ 01:21 AM
link   
The question of the Suffering is one of the biggest unresolved questions in theology. No matter the Church, or even the Religion, it is not explained satisfactory why should we suffer almost all our lives, if we couldn't technically commit so many sins for so short lifespan. Let alone, we start suffering in childhood age when we are still inoocent.

The Judaeo-Christian explanation of the Original sin of Adam and Eve, that is translated down the generations, explains the cause to some degree. Yet, we were not told of what kind of fruit our great grand parents had eaten up, and why should that be transmitted to their children etc. After all, none of us has agreed consciously to eat from that fruit, and still we were born with the Original sin.

According to Judaeo- Christianity, the souls are not reborn, so they didn't sin in previous lives, as the Eastern religions claim.

Ancient Genetic manipulation that could have made the human body and mind (if not the soul) prone to sin and error, could be a better explanation.

Where is the role of Jesus Christ, when His precious death on the cross covered the original sin and redeemed us for eternal life? If so, why do we see continuation of the sinful nature of baptised persons, regardless of how often they practice the Christian rites? Yes there is ecclesiastical explanation(s) as good as the one with the apple, repeated over and over again thru centuries by the brightest minds of Christian thought.

I do not question the redemptive role of the Savior Jesus Christ. I question the scholarly explanations that, no matter what, leave us with the only option to bear one's cross until the death. What difference then with the pre-Christian world, when people suffered as well? May be not more, even less, if we don't count the absurd religious wars and hunt of witches that appeared after 4th century.

Perhaps the Churches owe us explanations that name the things better than they did in the past. Perhaps some secret knowledge from the dawn of humanity found in secret libraries will shed light..I'm sure the theologians have what to say Today, avoiding all their symbolic talk and pre-set agendas.

What is your view on all that?
edit on 19-4-2018 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 19 2018 @ 01:28 AM
link   
Suffering is a construct of the mind.

You chose it, it's not something automatic.



posted on Apr, 19 2018 @ 01:35 AM
link   
The original sin (if one can call it that) is a ton of scribes writing a book about a bloke that apparently worked wonders and then other scribes further down the line «  Chinese whispers » took care of the rest.

In my opinion!

I wonder who gets all the royalties on said best seller!? (The war mongers do... that is for sure!)

Kindest respects

Lags
edit on 19-4-2018 by Lagomorphe because: Just my opinion



posted on Apr, 19 2018 @ 02:03 AM
link   
Not telling the truth of humanity's origins is the primary guilt of the leaders of religious communities. They cannot escape that responsibility once the truth makes it to the surface.



posted on Apr, 19 2018 @ 02:05 AM
link   
a reply to: 2012newstart

Because if you enter the world being taught that you are inherently flawed, it's easier to be controlled and easier to put your faith in something outside of yourself.



posted on Apr, 19 2018 @ 02:22 AM
link   
Because-the truth-there is no such thing as original sin much less a need to be forgiven. What are we-all killers?

I agree with the above poster-it's all a construct from corrupt self-serving power hungry leaders to fill their pockets with money to buy their way to an unknown life after death experience.

But, hey, if it works for you to believe centuries old fairy tales by the unscrupulous inventors, you're free in the US to do so.

Just quit shoving it and judging others who don't share your "beliefs."



posted on Apr, 19 2018 @ 03:15 AM
link   
Because that's all complete nonsense.


Period.



posted on Apr, 19 2018 @ 03:26 AM
link   

originally posted by: AgarthaSeed
a reply to: 2012newstart

Because if you enter the world being taught that you are inherently flawed, it's easier to be controlled and easier to put your faith in something outside of yourself.






exactly.... Also as we all suffer a great deal through life it allows for people to accept that suffering.



posted on Apr, 19 2018 @ 03:26 AM
link   
a reply to: 2012newstart

Asking a question like that on ATS is... going to get you a whole lot of answers that have nothing to do with anything.
The Biblical answer is in Philippians:

"For I am confident of this, that He who began a good work in you will continue to perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus." (1:6)

The point here is the the ultimate redemption takes place at the return of Christ.
This is what is described in 1 Corinthians 15 (perhaps take a minute to read that, it's incredible) - where human flesh gives way to new, spiritual bodies, the mortal becomes clothed with the immortal, and we are prepared to enter into the presence of God (which sinful flesh cannot do).

The book of Romans also goes into great length on this topic - particularly in chapters 6 through 8.

The short answer, though, is this: we are indeed saved from sin, but are also BEING saved from sin, and we will be saved from sin (in a final sense).

This is where the terms 'justification', 'sanctification' and 'glorification' come in - they relate to these three states.

We have been saved: positionally from the penalty of sin (Eph 2:8, 9). This is often called justification salvation.

We are being saved: from the power of sin, operationally, by the Holy Spirit, moment by moment (Rom 6). This is usually called sanctification.

We shall be saved: from the presence of sin; after the resurrection, often called glorification, or “the redemption of our body” (Rom 8:23).



posted on Apr, 19 2018 @ 03:48 AM
link   
a reply to: 2012newstart


Why do we continue to suffer Original Sin, if Jesus redeemed us on the Cross?


The answer as to why can be found in Genesis 3:19:

By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground since from it you were taken; for dust, you are and to dust you will return."
That sentence is still upon us. Only the death part has omitted from it with Jesus sacrifice.


Where is the role of Jesus Christ when His precious death on the cross covered the original sin and redeemed us for eternal life?

Jesus is that narrow gate mentioned in Matthew and His role is to lead us to eternal life and the restoration of mankind to its original state of companionship with God.

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.



If so, why do we see the continuation of the sinful nature of baptized persons, regardless of how often they practice the Christian rites?

Because of people prone to sin. But that does not negate the role of Jesus. The parable of the Prodigal Son said it best: “This son of mine was dead and is alive again”.

Peace



posted on Apr, 19 2018 @ 04:46 AM
link   
God has stated he shall offer them up to you for your Lust to be fulfilled. Read the old testament, silly.
But before he does... You must serve him. Well...



posted on Apr, 19 2018 @ 04:46 AM
link   
a reply to: [post=23331383]Lagomorphe[/post

I have a very simple belief about the reason that people still suffer and sin after they have become followers of the Faith. I have seen that people don't understand that EVERY sin which they have committed BEFORE becoming a christian has been forgiven. They seem to not understand that every sin is now covered by the act of Jesus going to the cross and laying down his life for the forgiveness of ALL sin. The Original Sin is about disobedience, not about what the fruit or other item being eaten was. As relating to people continuing to suffer and sin after baptism, they have NOT received the full forgiveness of sin and that means they wouldn't accept ALL the healing that God wants to bestow on everyone! It doesn't matter as to how many times one performs Christian rites if they are not doing it with a clean heart! And if you believe that you are still cursed, how can you be worshipping open and honestly like Jesus taught? One of the damning beliefs that people take to hell with them is that they are NOT completely clean of ALL sin when they accepted Jesus as their Savior!
As far as can souls commit sins in prior lives, it has no place in the kind of Spirituality that I am relating to everyone because almost all religions believe that souls, before they are born, are with God. How can a soul sin if it is with God?
I believe, as you have made your last conclusion, that as we look to the churches to get instruction from God, the leaders in the church should make the answers to these questions much more accessible to those who are seeking so diligently! I also believe that one should ask God directly because He answers with many ways and even through people who are not yet saved! Seek the truth, my brother!



posted on Apr, 19 2018 @ 05:06 AM
link   
a reply to: Tazmann

1 John 1:8:

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.


Christians are entirely forgiven. "There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus" (Romans 8:1) - but we nonetheless remain in "this body of death" (Romans 7:24). In order for us to see Christ as He is, we must become as He is. This is where mortal flesh will fall away and the immortal will take its place (1 Corinthians 15), which is the ultimate fulfilment of the promise.
edit on 19-4-2018 by Awen24 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 19 2018 @ 05:07 AM
link   
I believe that religion, apparent suffering for something we haven't done, making people feel guilty and threaten them with hell is all because there are so many people around that lack insight into their own responsibility.

I am nobody's punching bag. I make mistakes because I am a human animal and because I will learn from them. I am inherently an ok person, I don't go round causing harm to others for fun or commit nasty crimes.
Now I am who I am because of integrity. I'm just not a bastard by my own standards.

However many [including family] god people can't seem to do that. They even lie to their own congregation [New Apostolics], have TVs when they are not allowed and treat family like poop just because we don't want to go and sit through a sermon with them after an 8 hour drive.

Now imagine those really nasty people without the wrath of god and his threats of pain and suffering, they'd be dangerous.
They can't even contain themselves from lying and being nasty WITH the threads.
Telling them they have original sin also seems to not matter much to them either. They are just nasty individuals.

These people however find glee in telling others about original sins and suffering.

It is because of this I can't trust anything any believer says, nor can I trust what the bible says because really it was written to contain the uncontainables. They literally had to come up with something to make those with no integrity behave somehow.

I don't need this and neither do other inherently good people. No Jesus on any cross can make you have any original sin, it's complete tyranny and really bad for people with mental illnesses who might take it far too serious and suffer BECAUSE of it.

There are humans who have never heard of jesus and who lead a decent life. Think about that.



posted on Apr, 19 2018 @ 05:59 AM
link   
NEWS FLASH Jesus didn't die for our sins...

...he died because of them.

Have fun swallowing that horsepill of responsibility.



posted on Apr, 19 2018 @ 06:03 AM
link   
a reply to: Awen24

I agree with that.

But...how one could explain that a child is born with inherited illness without ever having the chance to sin?

That could be transferred to many other people, who in their whole life couldn't do the number and severity of sins corresponding to the punishment they suffer. Even if they'd want it, and many people do not want to commit grave sins, rather live a good christian life.

Sure there are also those whose sins are much bigger and for whom the punishment in this life is not enough and ultimately would deserve the pains of afterlife without God, i.e. the hell. For their salvation the only hope is God's mercy.

But why all of us are required to suffer so much all our life, is beyond my comprehension. That's why I go back to that tree in the garden, that obviously we were not told the whole truth of it.



posted on Apr, 19 2018 @ 06:24 AM
link   
a reply to: 2012newstart

Suffering, interesting, original sin caused a broken world. Free will means people harm others and themselves, God won't intervene free will otherwise it's not free will and it's not the actions of love to deny choice.
We suffer because we hurt ourselves and each other, the world is broken so doesn't function correctly

Christians are not sinners, we are born with a new flesh, the flesh is sin free after salvation, yet like a virus within the body, sin infects the new flesh. So while we are sin free, we have a disease that is not our new flesh infecting us.
That was from Bruxy Cavey teaching, it makes sense in context to me

Hope that helps



posted on Apr, 19 2018 @ 06:27 AM
link   

originally posted by: Pinocchio
God has stated he shall offer them up to you for your Lust to be fulfilled. Read the old testament, silly.
But before he does... You must serve him. Well...


The Old Testament is an old covenant to the Jews, it does not reflect on Christianity, silly
We are saved by grace, not works, we serve Christ, the community from love not duty

You seem confused and a touch arrogant



posted on Apr, 19 2018 @ 06:54 AM
link   

originally posted by: 2012newstart
The Judaeo-Christian explanation of the Original sin of Adam and Eve, that is translated down the generations, explains the cause to some degree. Yet, we were not told of what kind of fruit our great grand parents had eaten up,

The serpent didn't tell you the fruit contain knowledge of good and evil? Did he also tell you knowing good and evil make you equal to god?

Yes, he did.


originally posted by: 2012newstart
and why should that be transmitted to their children etc. After all, none of us has agreed consciously to eat from that fruit, and still we were born with the Original sin.

Did he tell you the fruit will turn to gene and the knowledge will pass down to future generation?

Did he tell you the fruit is also a poison that would kill your eternal life?

Did he tell you the fruit it unclean that it could manifest evil from within the heart?

Did he tell you only God could hold to such knowledge and Adam or Eve simply were not ready for it?

Wait what? No. He didn't tell that.

I guess the serpent didn't tell you full story, huh?


originally posted by: 2012newstart
Where is the role of Jesus Christ, when His precious death on the cross covered the original sin and redeemed us for eternal life?

Jesus' death brought back eternal life that had been lost to the knowledge of good and evil. He didn't cure us from evil flesh nor did he guaranteed us to have good life.


originally posted by: 2012newstart
If so, why do we see continuation of the sinful nature of baptised persons, regardless of how often they practice the Christian rites?

I told you already the fruit contain poison that not only kill your eternal life, but it also manifest evil desire and evil thought into mankind, pass down from Cain. But meh, no one listen to me.

Baptism didn't stop Cain from killing Abel. Why should it stop anyone from abusing child or murdering million people? The purpose of baptism is different. The only thing to stop Cain from killing Abel was to take out the knowledge of good of evil, which is the knowledge of god, which is the curse and source of corruption to human flesh and mind. But it can't be done. Because it mean men would need new body.


originally posted by: 2012newstart
What difference then with the pre-Christian world, when people suffered as well?

What is the difference you ask?
The difference is Jesus death give the world eternal life. Before Jesus, god only give this privilege to the Israelites, and the Israelite Jews are notoriously conservative.



posted on Apr, 19 2018 @ 06:55 AM
link   
I think we have the wrong idea of what “sin” is.... I think sin is suffering- (that is caused by our choices/ others choices). And it is simply a byproduct of this existence. Christ came to heal us, to help us. He can heal us from the suffering we experience.

That’s my opinion, in a very small nutshell.



new topics




 
6
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join