The Prehistoric Origins of QiGong

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: LitriumGem

From ex member here. But given he sells books at over $45 in australia he is making money regardless what his books say. If it was $5 to cover printing cost ok, but not $45. So he must be reaping huge profits if he has millions of followers. DO you know where that money is going?

All the books, exercise instructions and video lectures are free to download or watch from the main Falun Dafa website:

falundafa.org...

falundafa.org...


Of course for the hardcopy of the book a little money is needed for materials and for book production,printing and distribution. The book is not $45 dollars however. The prices are here:

www.tiantibooks.org...


Master Li Hongzhi also addressed this issue:

falundafa.org...

a reply to: LitriumGem

Still seems like a cult or cultish to me. True Qi Gong was never made public and if Falun Dafa is a true practice why was it made available to the public? Might as well practice Tai Chi or Yoga.

originally posted by: LitriumGem
originally posted by: Byrd

But this doesn't prove that people knew this back in the stone age.

Reply:

Well since it was passed down in secret for millenia from Master to pupil ofcourse it will be very hard to find records of it's existence.

Saying this however, many things go back to prehistoric times that people are unaware of. It is mentioned in Zhuan Falun that the Tai-ji symbol, the Hetu and Luoshu diagrams and the Book of Changes have all been passed down from prehistoric times.

The symbol for Falun Dafa is called a 'Law Wheel'. It consists of a central swastika with 4 swastikas and 4 tai-ji symbols positioned around the central swastika.

You can read more about it here:

en.minghui.org...

The symbol is not ancient (and does not appear in other cultures or before Mr. Li created it. So this is not evidence of it being a Stone Age practice.

This swastika is also talked about in Zhuan Falun in great detail:

en.falundafa.org...

This is his idea of the swastika... not its actual history. The written evidence doesn't particularly support his statements about its meaning.

The swastika symbol has been found throughout many ancient civilizations throughout the world:

www.ancient-origins.net...

They seem to be independently evolved and to have different meanings. This would not be true if it was an ancient shared symbol and had spread globally.

a reply to: LitriumGem

$45 was from this link.

He does not address his finances in that reply. It is clearly a sign to look for how the one that teaches, actually lives. Does the teacher live amoung the poor or move to east coast of US to live a better life. These are signs that are important.

Regardless of my feelings, you have made your own mind up. And yes I could be totally wrong and you totally right. I have not written for my own ego but concern for you.

Love.

Byrd wrote: The symbol is not ancient (and does not appear in other cultures or before Mr. Li created it. So this is not evidence of it being a Stone Age practice.



Reply:

The Falun Symbol comprises of Swastikas and Tai-Ji symbols, both of which are very ancient. As for the Falun symbol itself, because this practice has only recently been given to the public and was once taught in a very remote prehistoric time it has been lost to history. Actually many great Cultivation Systems have never been passed to the public and only a few within the Buddha and Dao schools have ever been given to the secular world. Master Li Hongzhi talked about this in one of his Buddha Law lectures:

Buddha Shakyamuni stated that there were 84,000 cultivation disciplines, but that was an understanding communicated based on his realm and within a certain scope. The Daoists hold that there are 3,600 cultivation disciplines, and that is likewise an understanding based on their particular realm. The truth is, the Fa principles they taught were limited. Then how many paths are there in the cosmos that can enable a life to ascend, to return to a higher realm? There are countless ways. However many sentient beings there are, that's how many paths there are.

There are that many. With so many cultivation forms, then, of course they can't all be brought here to human society. The cosmos has a measureless, incalculable number of Buddhas, countless Gods, and moreover, to each of the multitude of gods, the cosmos at their position seems to already be at its zenith, with no lives existing above them and nothing existing above where they are. But in fact, in larger realms there are still more incomparably massive and high realms and even more Buddhas and gods that are innumerable, and when they look upon the gods below them, they see them as ordinary people.

Then just how many paths are there? They, too, are countless. You know that Buddha Shakyamuni validated and enlightened to his cultivation discipline, which is summarized by the words "precept, concentration, wisdom"; that's the path Shakyamuni validated and enlightened to.

There are so many Buddhas in the cosmic body, they are simply immeasurable, incalculable, yet in the cosmos there is no second Buddha whose validation and enlightenment consisted of "precept, concentration, wisdom." In other words, every god has his own path, and each god's system has for its sentient beings its own realm's unique standards and its own criteria based on its Law for a life's rise or fall. Then wouldn't you say there are many approaches to cultivation? The number is enormous.”

surfer_soul wrote:Still seems like a cult or cultish to me. True Qi Gong was never made public and if Falun Dafa is a true practice why was it made available to the public? Might as well practice Tai Chi or Yoga.

Reply:

In Falun Dafa no money is involved, it's loosely organized and people just practice a set of Qi Gong exercises and try to live by the precepts of Truthfulness, Compassion and Forbearance, that's the core of the practice.

If this practice doesn't resonate with someone and they don't want to practice that's fine too. This is expounded upon in Zhuan Falun:

"In our universe there’s another law: if it’s about something you’re seeking or just want, nobody can stop you. Here we’re teaching you to take the right path, and along with that, we’re teaching you the Law inside and out and encouraging you to have your own understanding of it, but it’s still up to you whether you decide to learn it. "The master leads you through the door, but cultivation is up to you." Nobody’s going to push you to cultivate. It’s up to you whether you cultivate. Or to put it another way, when you choose your own path, when you decide what you want, or when you’re trying to get something—nobody will stop you. They can only try to kindly persuade you."



glend wrote:

$45 was from this link.

He does not address his finances in that reply. It is clearly a sign to look for how the one that teaches, actually lives. Does the teacher live amoung the poor or move to east coast of US to live a better life. These are signs that are important.

Regardless of my feelings, you have made your own mind up. And yes I could be totally wrong and you totally right. I have not written for my own ego but concern for you.

Love.


Reply:

I guess some bookstores overcharge for their books. But the book and all the other supplementary books are free to download from the main Falun Dafa website and in the Tianti bookstore you can pick up a pocket version for ten bucks.

In terms of finances if a Qi Gong Master like Master LiHongzhi wanted to become rich he would ask 1 dollar from each of his practitioners and he would be a multi millionaire but he doesn't charge a penny.

You shouldn't have concern for me, the True victims are those Falun Dafa practitioners that are been imprisoned, tortured and murdered by the vile Chinese Communist Party:

en.minghui.org...

originally posted by: LitriumGem
a reply to: Murgatroid

The whole world supports Falun Dafa. The only country that is still actively persecuting it is the Chinese Communist Party:

- - -

"By April 2001, Mr. Li Hongzhi had received over 340 awards and proclamations from Australia, Canada, China (before crackdown), Japan, Russia, and the U.S. in recognition of the extraordinary contributions to people's spiritual and physical health, and to freedom of belief in the world.

These include certificates of recognition from several governmental bodies in the United States – including Honorary Citizenship awarded by The State of Georgia and city of Atlanta. On 14 March 2001, The Freedom House bestowed Li Hongzhi and Falun Gong with an International Religious Freedom Award for the advancement of religious and spiritual freedom at a ceremony in the United States Senate.

In the same year, Li was ranked the most powerful communicator in Asia by Asiaweek magazine "for his power to inspire, to mobilize people and to spook Beijing".He was nominated for the 2001 Sakharov Prize by over 25 members of European Parliament, was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize in 2000 and 2001, and in 2013 was ranked by Foreign Policy Magazine as one of the 500 most powerful people in the world."

- - -

It has also healed hundreds of thousands of people around the world. A whole book has been written about it's healing and rejuvenating effects:

en.minghui.org...



Most false and bad media about Falun Dafa is from the Chinese Communist Party. They have a whole Propaganda bureau just dedicated to slander and undermine Falun Dafa:

en.minghui.org...

en.wikipedia.org...


Furthermore they torture Falun Dafa disciples and also perform live vivisections on them to harvest their organs. The Chinese Communist Party is the True cult. They are the most evil cult on this planet based on strife, fear and deceit:

en.minghui.org...

www.youtube.com...

There is a reason why Falun Dafa is banned in China. You may have seen the positives side to it. A bit like the west thinking that Tibet was heaven on earth before chinese rule, but it is a dangous cult led by a dangous man who has a lot of hate inside in.

Families have been ruined in China because of this cult, I knew a few people in China when I was living their who turned away from their families because of this cult.

Let's not forget they spread hate too

Rightly, it should be banned.

a reply to: LitriumGem

It's very easy to simply announce that something is thousands of years old. Based on the same line of reasoning used by Mr. Li, I can also say (with equal evidence) that Voodoo is 8,000 years old and Hoodoo (the practice) goes back to Neanderthal times as evidenced by the use of red ochre in burials.

I can even say that the ancient Egyptian religion reliably dates to 38,000 years ago, based on the Lowenmensch (Lion Man) figure which I can then say represents the solar deity Bastet (originally shown as a lioness) and that belief in the goddess Bastet is the oldest belie humans have.

All of the above are true (red ochre used by Neanderthals and earlier, the existence of the Lowenmensch, Bastet IS one of the oldest deities in the Egyptian pantheon) - but the conclusions of great age of these practices and this religion is not correct.

Mr. Li is using this same kind of false reasoning to give the idea that his practices are ancient (and therefore reliable and holy.) In fact, his beliefs and practices are not as ancient as the worship of Bastet.

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: LitriumGem
a reply to: Murgatroid

The whole world supports Falun Dafa. The only country that is still actively persecuting it is the Chinese Communist Party:

- - -

"By April 2001, Mr. Li Hongzhi had received over 340 awards and proclamations from Australia, Canada, China (before crackdown), Japan, Russia, and the U.S. in recognition of the extraordinary contributions to people's spiritual and physical health, and to freedom of belief in the world.

These include certificates of recognition from several governmental bodies in the United States – including Honorary Citizenship awarded by The State of Georgia and city of Atlanta. On 14 March 2001, The Freedom House bestowed Li Hongzhi and Falun Gong with an International Religious Freedom Award for the advancement of religious and spiritual freedom at a ceremony in the United States Senate.

In the same year, Li was ranked the most powerful communicator in Asia by Asiaweek magazine "for his power to inspire, to mobilize people and to spook Beijing".He was nominated for the 2001 Sakharov Prize by over 25 members of European Parliament, was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize in 2000 and 2001, and in 2013 was ranked by Foreign Policy Magazine as one of the 500 most powerful people in the world."

- - -

It has also healed hundreds of thousands of people around the world. A whole book has been written about it's healing and rejuvenating effects:

en.minghui.org...



Most false and bad media about Falun Dafa is from the Chinese Communist Party. They have a whole Propaganda bureau just dedicated to slander and undermine Falun Dafa:

en.minghui.org...

en.wikipedia.org...


Furthermore they torture Falun Dafa disciples and also perform live vivisections on them to harvest their organs. The Chinese Communist Party is the True cult. They are the most evil cult on this planet based on strife, fear and deceit:

en.minghui.org...

www.youtube.com...

There is a reason why Falun Dafa is banned in China. You may have seen the positives side to it. A bit like the west thinking that Tibet was heaven on earth before chinese rule, but it is a dangous cult led by a dangous man who has a lot of hate inside in.

Families have been ruined in China because of this cult, I knew a few people in China when I was living their who turned away from their families because of this cult.

Let's not forget they spread hate too

Rightly, it should be banned.

The only cult is the Chinese Communist Party who has imprisoned, tortured and murdered thousands of innocent people who only wanted to practice a righteous Qi Gong practice and live by the precepts of Truthfulness, Compassion and Forbearance. The real reason why the evil Chinese Communist Party began persecuting these people is explained in detail here:

www.ninecommentaries.com...



Byrd wrote:

It's very easy to simply announce that something is thousands of years old. Based on the same line of reasoning used by Mr. Li, I can also say (with equal evidence) that Voodoo is 8,000 years old and Hoodoo (the practice) goes back to Neanderthal times as evidenced by the use of red ochre in burials.

I can even say that the ancient Egyptian religion reliably dates to 38,000 years ago, based on the Lowenmensch (Lion Man) figure which I can then say represents the solar deity Bastet (originally shown as a lioness) and that belief in the goddess Bastet is the oldest belie humans have.

All of the above are true (red ochre used by Neanderthals and earlier, the existence of the Lowenmensch, Bastet IS one of the oldest deities in the Egyptian pantheon) - but the conclusions of great age of these practices and this religion is not correct.

Mr. Li is using this same kind of false reasoning to give the idea that his practices are ancient (and therefore reliable and holy.) In fact, his beliefs and practices are not as ancient as the worship of Bastet.

Reply:

There are many trace remnants of prehistoric civilizations and mysterious artifacts that anthropologists and archaeologists are uncovering that do not fit into any currently known time period and that very little is known about:

www.youtube.com...

If this is the case wouldn't it would imply these relics and artifacts had once belonged to prehistoric civilizations that simply have been lost to time?

In Cultivation they believe that mankind has risen and fallen countless numbers of times and that in each period a little bit of the previous civilization is uncovered from their descendants. Society progresses in such a manner continually rising to a peak and then falling due to moral corruption.

What can be uncovered is usually just a few scant pieces of the previous civilization or sometimes a little further back, as for the other even remote time periods most of those civilizations have been lost to time due to the changes on Earth such as natural disasters and the moving and rising and falling of continental plates.

They also believe that many upright Cultivation systems that are unknown to mankind have been passed down from very remote ages by Enlightened Beings and Great sages in a lineage type way. This means that even though the civilizations of those past eras have been lost to time due to the great changes that have occurred on Earth the teachings have still survived.

As you know, the Falun symbol has a large Swastika symbol in the middle and 4 smaller swastikas on it's side. Master Li Hongzhi has also touched upon this swastika symbol and how ancient it truly is, this is a short excerpt from one of his Buddha Law lectures:

“You know that the swastika symbol of the Buddha system was recognized in Buddhism at the time of Shakyamuni. Over twenty-five hundred years have since passed. In other words, it far predates the time of the Nazis. It’s said that people have found it in the [ruins of] Greek civilization. Then it would predate Buddhism by more than a thousand years. That means its history is rather long. And that’s merely what can be known to man.

In fact, the symbol belongs to Buddhas. How old are Buddhas? That can’t be measured with time—time on earth, that is. So this symbol of theirs is quite ancient for the cosmic body and for the universe. It’s quite ancient even for the universe, not to mention for mankind’s time! "

originally posted by: LitriumGem

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: LitriumGem
a reply to: Murgatroid

The whole world supports Falun Dafa. The only country that is still actively persecuting it is the Chinese Communist Party:

- - -

"By April 2001, Mr. Li Hongzhi had received over 340 awards and proclamations from Australia, Canada, China (before crackdown), Japan, Russia, and the U.S. in recognition of the extraordinary contributions to people's spiritual and physical health, and to freedom of belief in the world.

These include certificates of recognition from several governmental bodies in the United States – including Honorary Citizenship awarded by The State of Georgia and city of Atlanta. On 14 March 2001, The Freedom House bestowed Li Hongzhi and Falun Gong with an International Religious Freedom Award for the advancement of religious and spiritual freedom at a ceremony in the United States Senate.

In the same year, Li was ranked the most powerful communicator in Asia by Asiaweek magazine "for his power to inspire, to mobilize people and to spook Beijing".He was nominated for the 2001 Sakharov Prize by over 25 members of European Parliament, was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize in 2000 and 2001, and in 2013 was ranked by Foreign Policy Magazine as one of the 500 most powerful people in the world."

- - -

It has also healed hundreds of thousands of people around the world. A whole book has been written about it's healing and rejuvenating effects:

en.minghui.org...



Most false and bad media about Falun Dafa is from the Chinese Communist Party. They have a whole Propaganda bureau just dedicated to slander and undermine Falun Dafa:

en.minghui.org...

en.wikipedia.org...


Furthermore they torture Falun Dafa disciples and also perform live vivisections on them to harvest their organs. The Chinese Communist Party is the True cult. They are the most evil cult on this planet based on strife, fear and deceit:

en.minghui.org...

www.youtube.com...

There is a reason why Falun Dafa is banned in China. You may have seen the positives side to it. A bit like the west thinking that Tibet was heaven on earth before chinese rule, but it is a dangous cult led by a dangous man who has a lot of hate inside in.

Families have been ruined in China because of this cult, I knew a few people in China when I was living their who turned away from their families because of this cult.

Let's not forget they spread hate too

Rightly, it should be banned.

The only cult is the Chinese Communist Party who has imprisoned, tortured and murdered thousands of innocent people who only wanted to practice a righteous Qi Gong practice and live by the precepts of Truthfulness, Compassion and Forbearance. The real reason why the evil Chinese Communist Party began persecuting these people is explained in detail here:

www.ninecommentaries.com...



Byrd wrote:

It's very easy to simply announce that something is thousands of years old. Based on the same line of reasoning used by Mr. Li, I can also say (with equal evidence) that Voodoo is 8,000 years old and Hoodoo (the practice) goes back to Neanderthal times as evidenced by the use of red ochre in burials.

I can even say that the ancient Egyptian religion reliably dates to 38,000 years ago, based on the Lowenmensch (Lion Man) figure which I can then say represents the solar deity Bastet (originally shown as a lioness) and that belief in the goddess Bastet is the oldest belie humans have.

All of the above are true (red ochre used by Neanderthals and earlier, the existence of the Lowenmensch, Bastet IS one of the oldest deities in the Egyptian pantheon) - but the conclusions of great age of these practices and this religion is not correct.

Mr. Li is using this same kind of false reasoning to give the idea that his practices are ancient (and therefore reliable and holy.) In fact, his beliefs and practices are not as ancient as the worship of Bastet.

Reply:

There are many trace remnants of prehistoric civilizations and mysterious artifacts that anthropologists and archaeologists are uncovering that do not fit into any currently known time period and that very little is known about:

www.youtube.com...

If this is the case wouldn't it would imply these relics and artifacts had once belonged to prehistoric civilizations that simply have been lost to time?

In Cultivation they believe that mankind has risen and fallen countless numbers of times and that in each period a little bit of the previous civilization is uncovered from their descendants. Society progresses in such a manner continually rising to a peak and then falling due to moral corruption.

What can be uncovered is usually just a few scant pieces of the previous civilization or sometimes a little further back, as for the other even remote time periods most of those civilizations have been lost to time due to the changes on Earth such as natural disasters and the moving and rising and falling of continental plates.

They also believe that many upright Cultivation systems that are unknown to mankind have been passed down from very remote ages by Enlightened Beings and Great sages in a lineage type way. This means that even though the civilizations of those past eras have been lost to time due to the great changes that have occurred on Earth the teachings have still survived.

As you know, the Falun symbol has a large Swastika symbol in the middle and 4 smaller swastikas on it's side. Master Li Hongzhi has also touched upon this swastika symbol and how ancient it truly is, this is a short excerpt from one of his Buddha Law lectures:

“You know that the swastika symbol of the Buddha system was recognized in Buddhism at the time of Shakyamuni. Over twenty-five hundred years have since passed. In other words, it far predates the time of the Nazis. It’s said that people have found it in the [ruins of] Greek civilization. Then it would predate Buddhism by more than a thousand years. That means its history is rather long. And that’s merely what can be known to man.

In fact, the symbol belongs to Buddhas. How old are Buddhas? That can’t be measured with time—time on earth, that is. So this symbol of theirs is quite ancient for the cosmic body and for the universe. It’s quite ancient even for the universe, not to mention for mankind’s time! "

No, you are wrong! The guy has all the hall marks of a cult leader. I am not just talking about the hateful things the guy has said (which is a lot) or the what he has said about Homosexuals. It is about the people who have lost loved ones over this cult!

When I was living in China, my wife's dad's friend had a daughter who got mixed up with these crazies. He was against the cult and becsuse of this, he has not seen his daughter in five years.

It is a horrible cult. Like most cults, they hide behind a peaceful message.

I do not agree, with any government torturing any human being, and I know the Chinese government are not innocent, but closing this cult down, and getting thst idiot to move abroad, was a good thing for china.

originally posted by: LitriumGem
As you know, the Falun symbol has a large Swastika symbol in the middle and 4 smaller swastikas on it's side.

This is Buddha's Swastika.

Buddha's Swastika is ancient. Falun's modified Swastika is not ancient.

originally posted by: LitriumGem
It’s said that people have found it in the [ruins of] Greek civilization.
Then it would predate Buddhism by more than a thousand years. That means its history is rather long. And that’s merely what can be known to man.

So? It's been used all over the world since prehistoric. It's meaning and usage, however, are different. You can find one neolithic Swastika Stone on Ilkley Moor, England.

The earliest swastika ever found was uncovered in Mezine, Ukraine, carved on an ivory figurine, which dates an incredible 12,000 years, and one of the earliest cultures that are known to have used the Swastika was a Neolithic culture in Southern Europe, in the area that is now Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, known as the Vinca Culture, which dates back around 8,000 years.

www.ancient-origins.net...
And no. It's not Falun's Swastika or Buddha's Swastika.

originally posted by: LitriumGem
In fact, the symbol belongs to Buddhas. How old are Buddhas? That can’t be measured with time—time on earth, that is. So this symbol of theirs is quite ancient for the cosmic body and for the universe. It’s quite ancient even for the universe, not to mention for mankind’s time! "

Siddhartha Gautama Buddha was born in 623 BC. We have records of his birth because it was testified by the inscription on the pillar erected by the Mauryan Emperor Asoka.

Buddha has his own Swastika, that is true, but he did not own or create it.

Still it doesn't prove Falun Gong is as ancient as the original Buddha's teaching, or the original Xing Qi ( Meditative Exercise ) and Tao Yin ( Breathing Exercise ), presumably in the I Ching.
It just a mixture of Buddhism, Confucianism and Taoism.

a reply to: Jay-morris

Untrue, Falun Dafa respects free will, if you don't want to cultivate that's you're choice. Falun Dafa is voluntary and is respected by the whole world. Read the wiki on Falun Dafa:

en.wikipedia.org...


Think about it, the whole world supports and knows Falun Dafa is good for society as a whole:

falunaz.net...

It has also rejuvinated and healed many people from all sorts of ailments:

en.minghui.org...



The only country that still actively persecutes Falun Dafa is that wretched mafia that calls itself a government, the Communist Chinese Party. They are the most underhanded, cunning and evil bunch of low lives the world has ever seen.

Think about this, they harvest organs from living ( yes living ) Falun Dafa practitioners and sell them on the black market. This is going beyond even what hitler did. They are demonic to the core. Even the U.N knows about what is occuring:

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: EasternShadow

You mentioned Buddha Shakyamuni who is talked a about extensively in Zhuan Falun.

Zhaun Falun translated into English means 'Turning The Law Wheel'.

Buddha Shakyamuni also talked about the 'Holy Law Wheel King' when he preached his Law in his time. Master Li Hongzhi has spoken about this in some of his lectures:

“When Shakyamuni taught the Fa, he talked about a "Holy Law-Wheel King," otherwise known as the "Holy King Who Turns the Wheel." The name Holy King Who Turns the Wheel has been used more often in the human world, whereas Holy Law-Wheel King is the title used in the heavens.

Buddha Shakyamuni once said that the Holy Law-Wheel King is the most omnipotent and powerful Tathagata in the universe. A Tathagata Buddha is a King of Law. The king of a Buddha's paradise is a Tathagata. We call it "Tathagata" based on ideas in cultivation and enlightenment. "Tathagata" means that the Buddha has come with the truth and the power to do what he wants.

So the world's people call Kings of Law "Tathagatas," which is another correct way to understand it, since they [the Tathagatas] grasp the truths at that level, and among all of the beings in their respective domains they are the highest and grasp the highest truths of those levels.

That's why they are Kings of Law, that is, kings of the beings at a given level or of that group of beings. There are many Kings of Law. Of course, to humans there are countless beings who are Tathagatas, one of whom is the Holy Law-Wheel King. Why did Buddha Shakyamuni name specifically the Holy Law-Wheel King?

It was because the Holy Law-Wheel King was going to descend to the human world to teach the Fa and save people. Of course, you might have heard that Buddha Shakyamuni also said that Maitreya would descend to the human world and save people. Actually, "Maitreya" is a name, and "Holy King Who Turns the Wheel" is a title--the title of a king--which, if it's put in human terms, is, well, a job title.”


It is also believed that when a great enlightened being comes down to Earth to offer salvation to mankind a certain flower known as the Udumbara Flower begins to bloom around the world. This flower has now been seen blooming in various places around the world:

en.minghui.org...

en.minghui.org...

www.clearharmony.net...

en.minghui.org...