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why all the hate of zionism?

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posted on Feb, 18 2005 @ 09:00 PM
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Majic - simple Judaism is Not Zionism. They are not the same. Zionism is a Political, Extremist & even Terrorist form of Judaism. They are bringing Land & Property into it. They are actively mixing Religion (Church) & State - this is a dangerous & deadly combination! We are seeing the same thing here in America with the Relationship between our Government &
Christian Fundamentalism! The Moslems are also guilty of this combination.

What the World needs is SEPARTATION of Church/Mosque/Synagogue & State!



[edit on 18-2-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]




posted on Feb, 19 2005 @ 04:54 AM
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Jews - religious people
Zionisnt - political nationalists.

Zionism is used in many of Israel policies and Zionism's new goal is to protect the homeland.

[edit on 19-2-2005 by infinite]



posted on Feb, 19 2005 @ 12:15 PM
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Yes there were people living in Palestine when the Jews arrived. I heard the argument about the absence of people officially recognized as Palestinians before Jews arrived, but this is an dishonest argument since the arab nations of middle-east were just beginning to form in the '30s-'40s, and national boundaries, as well as nations as wholes were at their early stages of development. There were no arab nations before Lawrence of Arabia arabs against the Turks in the '20s, just a bunch of tribes and a few small kingdoms there and there. It's like saying that there were no "citizens" of America before the europeans arrived; you just can't apply retroactively the political conceptions on nationality, citizenship and territory to a pre-state situation!

The treaty of 1918 was decided without the consent of the Arab people that lived there at this time. It's nice to make treaties, but if you ignore one of the 2 or 3 major parties that are concerned by the treaty, expect to have trouble, or at least resistance, from this party (that was actually the big problem with the Versailles treaty on Germany).

Of course, I recognize that no nation in middle-east was interested to have a jewish nation as neighbor, as this must have to do, in parts, with the intolerance and mistrust expressed towards Jews in Europe, Africa and Middle-East for a very long time... but was it a reason to impose by force the Israeli state in Middle-East??? Not really...

Everything is interpretation, eslag... there is no such thing as a naked, pure historical FACTS. History always takes shape in the mouth of the one that tells it.



posted on Feb, 19 2005 @ 12:17 PM
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I did hear that the Zionists are hell bent on creating a second state, America was the country that was used. I know New York has more jews than Israel, but i cannot see America become a Zionist state.



posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 02:17 PM
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I did not mean to say that there werent any people living in Palestine. Just as some arabs were living in Palestine for centuries, so have some Jews. I'm just saying the majority of arabs didn't come until Jewish pioneers came and drained the swamps and made the land hospitable. When Mark twain visited the land, he said it was an empty wasteland.



posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by Researcher

There are 3 kinds of Jews, ignoring those who convert:



There are more. For example:


• Ashkenazim (Jews of Northern and Eastern Europe)
• Sephardim (Spanish and Portuguese Jews)
• Mizrakhim (Middle Eastern Jews)
• Caucasian Mountain Jews (Dagestani and Azerbaijani Jews)
• Georgian Jews
• Indian Jews
• North African Jews
• Yemenite Jews
• Ethiopian Jews
• .....


Originally posted by Researcher

The original, old testament, descended from Abraham ....



Decendends from Abraham and Hagar are todays Muslime
Descendeds from Abraham and Sarah are todays Jews

- and those who converted, are also todays Jews. One very popular convert has been Ruth from the land of Moab. Ruth, who converted to Judaism, was King David's great-grandmother. The Messiach must be descended on his father's side from King David (see Genesis 49:10 and Isaiah 11:1)


Originally posted by Researcher

Semitic



Semitic is a standard term in linguistics - outside linguistics, the term's primary use nowadays is to refer to the ethnic groups who have historically spoken Semitic languages. (In Genesis Shem is described as the father of the Assyrians, Chaldeans, Aramaeans, Sabaeans, and Hebrews, all of whose languages are closely related; the linguistic family containing them was therefore named Semitic.)


Originally posted by Researcher

The "Ultra-Orthodox Jews" [...] are Sephardim



That is wrong. There are Jews from every parts of the World "ultra-orthodox".


Originally posted by Researcher

Sephardim are treated as second class citizens by Ashkenazim in Israel.



huh? That is absolute wrong.


Originally posted by Researcher

"Ancient symbol of the Jews", the Magen David - Star of David. Turns out, it's been a symbol of the Jews since Theodore Herzl.



Theodor Herzl lived from 1860-1904

The Magen David (Shield of David) is a traditional symbol of Judaism.
Legend tells us that King David, the King of Israel, adorned his shield with this six-pointed star, thus the star is named the Magen David.

A David's shield has recently been noted on a Jewish tombstone at Tarentum, in southern Italy, which may date as early as the third century of the common era.

The earliest Jewish literary source which mentions a Magen David, the "Eshkol ha-Kofer" of the Karaite Judah Hadassi (middle of the 12th cent.), says, in ch. 242: "Seven names of angels precede the mezuzah: Michael, Gabriel, etc. . . . Tetragrammaton protect thee! And likewise the sign called 'David's shield' is placed beside the name of each angel." (JewishEncyclopedia)


Rebekka



posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente

Zionism is a Political, Extremist & even Terrorist form of Judaism.



Israel has no apologies to make for being a Jewish state.

Indeed, the State of Israel's existence was recognized by UN resolution 181 on October 29th 1947.

A well-known fact: Partition into a Jewish and an Arab state was rejected by the Arab states.


Rebekka

[edit on 20-2-2005 by Riwka]



posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 05:19 PM
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The reason that some people hate the jewish race goes back centuries, with reasons that are pure social psychology, and others are personal psychology.

Since they were kicked out of Israel in AD70, they had been landless and baseless gathering in small groups in other countires.

In order to keep from being assimilated into the dominant cultures and being lost as a people group, they tried to remain separate, by marrying among their own, keeping their own religion, etc.

They also were forced to work as merchants or similar as they were not allowed to own land.

In the primitive societies back then (heck some still now) any "out group" was the target for the frustrations and scapegoated for any problems in the dominant societies.

Hence the Jews, as a large seperate group, with different culture and dress, became the targets for the primitive people trying to solve issues beyond their power, such as plague, war, etc.

So Jews were killed, after being accused of causing the plague, threatening the state, not being christian, etc, etc.

Truth doesn't mean anything, if you are scared you will pick on others who are defenceless to try and blame them for your problems, its still happening in Africa among the tribal groups.

We see this also in the neo-nazi and hate groups, where uneducated people blame the "out group" (blacks, Jews, Asians, Mexicans etc) for the problems in their lives, instead of admitting that they can't get jobs because they are unemployable.

Notice that much hate comes from individuals who are not successful in their own lives, so feel the need to explain their failures as the result of others instead of themselves. People will always blame their failures on things outside of themselves, (I crashed the car because the road was wet, not becuase I am a lousy driver) its a way of protecting their egos.

So when you come across such explanations for failure, then it tells you more about the individual saying it, than a truth in the society they live in.



posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 06:33 PM
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The reason that some people hate the jewish race goes back centuries, with reasons that are pure social psychology, and others are personal psychology.


Okay, you are quite correct on this history of Jews, but here it's not about hatred or fear towards Jews, but towards zionists.



posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 09:49 PM
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Good point.

One may be an offshoot of the other though.

Take the poster on the othe page who described the Jews as "subhuman animals" This is a just an extention of the hate for Jews to the hate for zionism, by someone who is obviously deficient themselves (note that the lastest "cell" chip 10X faster than Intel was invented in Israel).

On the other hand are there many people who are not just generalising nacient historical and cultural hostility against jews into zionism?

Its hard to tell, as the western cultural hatred goes very deep. You only have to go back 2 generations to see the outworking of it.

Maybe the palastinians have legitimate reasons, but I wonder about many others



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 12:57 AM
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The jews seem to controll everything so they may be the problem in the first place. Too many rich jews/zionists+Gullable american public+Mtv/Viacom+Federal reserve+Neo COn=NWO. Look at "Who owns viacom" in google and how the federal reserve works if you don't beleive me. /me just revealed the most pollitically incorrect idea immaginable. w00t



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 01:18 AM
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Has someone been reading the Protocols of Zion?



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 04:31 AM
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Israel's right to exist as a state in security is uncontestable.

“When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews" (Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. in a 1968 appearance at Harvard).


Rebekka



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 05:30 AM
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Originally posted by XX_SicSemperTyrannis_XX
Has someone been reading the Protocols of Zion?


Im considering buying a copy (if i can),
so i can study it in detailed



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 07:49 AM
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I would like to clear some things.

Unlike the believes of many of you: the "Jews" didn't came to some land named palestine, killed its people and stole their land.

It wasn't even close to that.

Zionism is a movement according to which the problems of the Jewish people could be solved by creating a Jewish homeland, a state of their own. Since Jews are a race with the same history and religion, a race which suffered perhaps much more than any other race in history - I don't see anything unreasonable in that.

Since the land known as "palestine" was where the jews lived according to the bible, and at that time most of the jews were religious (or at least treated their religion with great respect) - creating a Jewish homeland in palestine was what most of them hoped for.

Of course - other than few extremists who illegaly immigrated to Israel at that time - no one thought about going in their and conquering land. its absurd. The zionist wanted to achieve their goal legally and politicalyl, by asking help from other countries which have some power.

Other than Israel - several other options were examined. Argentina and Uganda, for example, were also places where the zionists considered creating their homeland (in a legal way, of course).

In the end, though Britain - which at that time basically controlled and owned palestine - agreed (in what is known as the balfour decleration) to help the Jews create a jewish homeland in that area, with respect to the arabs living there.

Immigration strarted, and the Jews BOUGHT land from Britain and the arabs who owned it. Most of the land (about 90 percent) wasn't even theirs, and they lived in peace with the arabs there.

In 1921, however, the arabs living there suddenly started to kill and murder the jewish immigrants. Perhaps it was because they didn't like the jews coming there, or perhaps it was because of arab leaders who incited their people in order to gain power. Either way - Jews were killed while they didn't had even the most primitive wat of defending themselves, and counted totally on the british governemnt.

Britain, on their part, ignored jewish claims and chose to restrict the Jewish immigration and the selling of land to jews. It was done, and the jews couldn't do much to oppose.

In 1929, however, more murderd happened, and more jews were killed. And again the jews couldn't do anything to opose, and britain, as a result, restricted them even more.

Those restrictions became more and more serious, and britain continued to ignore jewish claims - probably because they didn't want to lost any power in their relations with the arabs.

In 1936, following a partition plan which the arabs declined, there was a major uprising and hundreds of jews where killed. In the following years, however, many jews understood they couldn't rely on britain for protection, so jewish military organizations where formed to protect the jews and act against the arabs. A jewish homeland was a dream for them, a vision they gave their life for, they felt they were losing it and they chose to use violance as the arabs did.

As it tought in Israel schools - those organizations where terror organizations, killing innocent people. We, in israel, don't adore them much. I think it was a dark period in our history, and fortunately it didn't last long. In the end those organizations where dismantled, in understanding that it only harmed the creation of a jewish nation.

During WWII the Jews in palestine helpled britain on the logistic side, many arabs, however, hoped that germany will win. some famous arabs in the area even spent time recruiting people for germany in order to fight for the axis.

During and after the holocaust britain didn't allow any jews who managed to escape or survive to enter palestine. illigal immigration begun as a result, bringing Jews illegaly to israel by ships. Many ships were stopped and sent back. On one occasion a ship was cought in a storm and tried to dock in turkey, turkey didn't agree and britain didn't agree for it to dock in Israel. It was forces to continue sailing until it was drowned, probably by a russian submarine, killing all of its passengers.

After the war the UN proposed a partition plan, the Arabs, again, didn't agree, and this lead to the 1948 war, which was an attempt by the arabs to regain control of the area by eliminating the jews in the area. After the arabs lost Israel was founded.




How can you say we stole their land, killing people and forcing them out of their homes? We gave our lives for Israel, for a chance to live in peace in our own homeland, away from the suffering the world created for us. And now, when arabs are brainwashed in schools from their birth and tought lies about Israel and Jews, leading them to murder people in the name of their god simply because thats what they were told to do - you blame *us* for using tanks and missiles to protect our lives?

Israel is the only democratic country in the whole middle east. We are tought in schools to respect the world and its people and strive for peace. The last time there was a rumor an Israeli soldier shot a body of an already dead palestinian girl of no reason - it was the main story in Israeli media for weeks. There is a new law here now, according to which, medical help will be given to terrosists first if their situation is worse than other's, and only after that Israeli citizens will be treated, in case of a terror attack.

And then you go and call us unmoral, evil?

The USA killed more arabs in a month than we killed in 56 years of our existance. Russia kills chechen terroirists like they were ants and there are whole massacres in africa. But when we shoot a missile on a terrorists who killed dozens of Israelis you suddenly blaim *us* of war crimes?

Will YOUR country ever think twice before destroying a house which is used for manufacturing bombs? Will your country ever consider the life quality of the enemy before building a fence which will save the lifes of hundreds? Well, we do, and you still call us murderers.



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 08:01 AM
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I wonder if Native Americans will ever clue in to what Zionist jews have learned: namely that if you EVER owned a piece of land, you can retake it by force at any time down the road.

Would the Native Americans be justified in retaking, say, Arizona? Shouldn't that be the new "Indian Sovereign State"?

If the jews can do it, with the collusion of the world's superpowers (Balfour Declaration) then why not the original owners of the American land?

Amazing how when you contrast and compare, the Zionist agenda falls to the floor as an obvious joke. Supporters need pages and pages of words to justify it while detractors need only mention the obvious: Under Rule of Law, you cannot take someone's land just because it was once yours.



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by Riwka
Israel has no apologies to make for being a Jewish state.

Indeed, the State of Israel's existence was recognized by UN resolution 181 on October 29th 1947.

A well-known fact: Partition into a Jewish and an Arab state was rejected by the Arab states.


Rebekka

[edit on 20-2-2005 by Riwka]


Well, how can Israel justify is reason for being based on the Torah?? the Qur'an states the holy land belongs to Israel, who is right then?



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by smallpeeps
I wonder if Native Americans will ever clue in to what Zionist jews have learned: namely that if you EVER owned a piece of land, you can retake it by force at any time down the road.

Would the Native Americans be justified in retaking, say, Arizona? Shouldn't that be the new "Indian Sovereign State"?

If the jews can do it, with the collusion of the world's superpowers (Balfour Declaration) then why not the original owners of the American land?

Amazing how when you contrast and compare, the Zionist agenda falls to the floor as an obvious joke. Supporters need pages and pages of words to justify it while detractors need only mention the obvious: Under Rule of Law, you cannot take someone's land just because it was once yours.



Really? I thought the important part was more something like: "You cannot express a claim about something if you don't even have the slightest clue about it". Which is, unfortunately, exactly what you just did.


The whole world, as you should know, was shaped by the act of conquering lands - usually those which were never even yours in the first place. The Jews, by the way, as people with common history and religion who probably deserve a state more than any other ethnic group in the world - haven't even done that.

Even if we ignore the simple fact that nobody "took" someone else's land, even if we ignore the current brainwashing of the palestinians which has nothing to do with the past, your claim still turns out to be naive, one sided, and, to be honest, meaningless.

Its even a bit sad that the only thing you have to justify the intended murder of women and children is some pathetic claim about something which haven't even happened.



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 09:14 AM
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Originally posted by smallpeeps
Amazing how when you contrast and compare, the Zionist agenda falls to the floor as an obvious joke. Supporters need pages and pages of words to justify it while detractors need only mention the obvious: Under Rule of Law, you cannot take someone's land just because it was once yours.


So then would you agree that the United States had no right to invade the Confederacy? You would have to according to the argument you just made. If you don't then you've contradicted yourself.



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 09:16 AM
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The Jews, by the way, as people with common history and religion who probably deserve a state more than any other ethnic group in the world

Do you have anything to state other than opinion? Common history and religion are what Native Americans had.

Rule of Law is what is at stake here and that means jews are subject to it also. You cannot take back land that was once yours. You remember a guy named Hitler right? He tried the same trick, saying that Sudetenland and Czechoslovakia were predominantly German. He was right; the Sudetenland had been settled by Germans for 600 years prior to WWI. It's the Versailles Treaty that created Czechoslovakia in the first place. [Educate Yourself Here]

He was not allowed to keep that land he had RIGHTLY taken. This was due to Rule of Law, which must reign supreme. What's the difference, oh wise one? Do you see jews as being above Rule of Law just like Hitler?

Wouldn't the Indian and Mexican people have a right to reclaim the western half of the U.S., by your own logic? Or maybe they could just have a small strip of the land, say, San Diego to Oceanside.





[edit on 21-2-2005 by smallpeeps]



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