More Torture Made Public!!!!

Wow Ed my brother, You are loosing your cool...then they are winning

Torture or not to torture? Well it depends on what you define torture is? (def of the word "is" is)

Personally listening to Howard the Duck Dean makes me want to strap on dynamite.......................................on Dean and through him to you all.

For all you potheads: Listen to Helen Reddy, the Los Vegas years or cut off your little finger? "Give me the cleaver!"

My question is Ed why would you have a captured insurgent? Run out of bullets? Logistics, the key to winning!

My take, send them to Allah.

Question: If every Islamic martyr receives 70 virgins in heaven, how would that be heaven for the virgins and how many virgins are there until there is a shortage? Don't worry, I would not mind helping them receive a reduced allotment,. Also since the Prophet, Mohammad preferred prepubescent girls for sex, does that mean that is what it takes to be a virgin in the Islamic world? Fear?


Rom 8:35-9:1
5 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written:

"For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."

37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

NIV

Originally posted by jprophet420
not fighting back will make YOU blind if you are fighting against an enemy that empoloys that tactic.

Not getting into the damm fight in the first place helps a little bit in that situtation doesnt it?

torture to stop genocide is fair play at the least, and doesent even to begin to qualify for "an eye for an eye" as genocide

So pain and punishment to stop pain and punishment is all fair game then?
So we can beat up potential vandals then?
Love to see that get past in a red cross meeting....

Originally posted by edsinger

(1) Well at least your honest about having no concept of kill or be killed.

(2) Oh yes there is, this particular case might not have been one but some of the examples listed below would change your mind. You can talk the talk but when it hits home you would have a change of heart.

Wrong *again*. Torture is a tool of primitive times. I will not reduce myself to a primitive animal

(3) How DARE you? That is F^&&*ing BULL#. How many of them lost fingers? How many have we thrown off buildings? You obviously haven't a single clue as to what went on before and I am going to stop before I get a flag that I have been 2 months without.....wait a second I was gone 2 months, screw it.

Sit behind your computer and talk bull#

Haha you say this as if you haven't been talking smack all day from behind YOUR computer? Pot calling the kettle black sir.

...but let me explain something to you, when the chips are down you will look to people who actually have testicles to do your fighting for you......you make me sick with that childish and ignorant comment.

Spit on you nation, why in the F&(*)&*^ don't you move to Canada?

Ed, fighting for my freedom and safety is one thing.

But

Torture is something TOTALLY different. Just because i personally was not in the military does not mean i am ignorant to how the military works. Dont even try to pull that whole "You don't support our troops/You hate america" bit with me either, because that's just igorant. Many of my family members serve and have served in the military (and a few have even retired).

THIS DOES NOT MEAN I CANNOT HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION
THIS DOES NOT MEAN I CANNOT FORM MY OWN CONCLUSIONS
THIS DOES NOT MEAN I HATE AMERICA
THIS DOES NOT MEAN I SPIT ON OUR TROOPS

You do not know me sir, therefor you have no way to judge how i would react if the "chips were down" as you put it. Defending my home, my freedom and my family has NOTHING to do with the fact i think the torture on ANYONE by america soldiers is WRONG.

Ed-

One more thing.

Don't be so quick to assume i'm some kind of coward just because i am against torture.

Remember what your mother said? When you assume... you make an a** out of you and me.

[edit on 18-2-2005 by negativenihil]

I am curious as to why they were using torture methods that could possibly kill. I know there are certain things you could do with electricity that could eventually make anyone tell you everything they have ever known, and if done properly there is much less risk of killing the poor soul than beating them. I've also read things the Indian police occasionally do with a stick and chili powder that made my blood run cold and would have no chance of killing the recipient....this whole topic is giving me the jeebies.

Originally posted by negativenihil
Wrong *again*. Torture is a tool of primitive times. I will not reduce myself to a primitive animal

No, you will sit behind your fantasy world and speak like you understand it all and let your fellow soldiers or family die to uphold a principle to refuse to treat savages like savages.....yeah real cool......

Originally posted by negativenihil
Haha you say this as if you haven't been talking smack all day from behind YOUR computer? Pot calling the kettle black sir.

Excuse me? I HAVE SERVED and you? And in a round about way I still do.....so you can spill your Perrier and kiss my ass.

Originally posted by negativenihil
Ed, fighting for my freedom and safety is one thing.

But

Torture is something TOTALLY different. Just because i personally was not in the military does not mean i am ignorant to how the military works. Dont even try to pull that whole "You don't support our troops/You hate america" bit with me either, because that's just igorant. Many of my family members serve and have served in the military (and a few have even retired).

You have a hard way of showing it, You have shown that you would let your fellow man die to save your principle already, so let me ask you this. If it was your daughter being held soon to be beheaded, you would sternly talk to the terrorist in the hope that he would tell you? You LIE but have no balls to admit the truth.

Originally posted by negativenihil
THIS DOES NOT MEAN I CANNOT HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION

Have it , fine, it shows what you are like...

Originally posted by negativenihil
THIS DOES NOT MEAN I CANNOT FORM MY OWN CONCLUSIONS

I guess you have and so have I. Under no circumstances would you torture someone to save your own family member a grueling death.

Originally posted by negativenihil
THIS DOES NOT MEAN I HATE AMERICA

You have one heck of a way saying otherwise, goto Berkley when you go to college , you fit in with the flower children.

Originally posted by negativenihil
THIS DOES NOT MEAN I SPIT ON OUR TROOPS

IMHO - You already have.

Originally posted by negativenihil
You do not know me sir, therefor you have no way to judge how i would react if the "chips were down" as you put it. Defending my home, my freedom and my family has NOTHING to do with the fact i think the torture on ANYONE by america soldiers is WRONG.

But you already said under NO circumstances....you made your case now defend it!




[edit on 18-2-2005 by edsinger]

Ed-

Your last post is, for lack of a better term, a rambling mess.

However there are a few points i will try to respond to.

first- if a child of mine were to be beheaded, i would most certianly want whomever was doing this beaheading dead. THAT DOES NOT MEAN I WOULD WANT THEM TORTURED.

Again you are assuming i am some kind of coward, when infact i would be more than happy to lodge a few bullet into their head. There is much to be said for the quick and messy means of death.

Originally posted by edsinger

Originally posted by negativenihil
THIS DOES NOT MEAN I SPIT ON OUR TROOPS

IMHO - You already have.

So not backiing torture at the hands of the troops whom my tax dollars pay for = spitting on the troops? weak.

For a man who claims to be so religious, it shocks me how far you will go to support torture in the name of some kind of false sense of security.




oh and fyi- i graduated college long ago. i'd be willing to bet i am far more educated than you've assumed.

Originally posted by negativenihilEd-
Your last post is, for lack of a better term, a rambling mess.
However there are a few points i will try to respond to.

Well I guess I try to do to much at one time then..........Point was given though....

Originally posted by negativenihilfirst- if a child of mine were to be beheaded, i would most certainly want whomever was doing this beheading dead. THAT DOES NOT MEAN I WOULD WANT THEM TORTURED.

So you would shoot the individual who had the location of your child and therefore let your child die? Just how would you get the information that you would need to save your child's life? Quit skirting the question and answer it directly would you?

Originally posted by negativenihilAgain you are assuming i am some kind of coward, when in fact i would be more than happy to lodge a few bullet into their head. There is much to be said for the quick and messy means of death.

I agree but you still need the information don't you?

Originally posted by negativenihil
So not backiing torture at the hands of the troops whom my tax dollars pay for = spitting on the troops? weak.

If you knew all the facts and we don't I will admit but if they are as were are contemplating and still felt that way, then yes.

Originally posted by negativenihil
For a man who claims to be so religious, it shocks me how far you will go to support torture in the name of some kind of false sense of security.

I support the fact that I would do ANYTHING within my power to save the at risk party, that is were you and I differ.....give em a good tongue lashing would you? Remember these "insurgents (not Iraqi for the most part I remind you) have followed the rules of war right?

Originally posted by negativenihil
oh and fyi- i graduated college long ago. i'd be willing to bet i am far more educated than you've assumed.

Well maybe so but you have a funny way of showing it, maybe you have lived a sheltered life...???

Originally posted by edsinger
So you would shoot the individual who had the location of your child and therefore let your child die? Just how would you get the information that you would need to save your child's life? Quit skirting the question and answer it directly would you?

you misunderstood me.

i'd shoot the person doing the beheading.

first- if a child of mine were to be beheaded, i would most certianly want whomever was doing this beaheading dead.

see?

If you knew all the facts and we don't I will admit but if they are as were are contemplating and still felt that way, then yes.

No, WE do not know all the facts.

One fact that i do know- You support torture. plain and simple.

Well maybe so but you have a funny way of showing it, maybe you have lived a sheltered life...???

hah hah hah hah "zing"

Yes, i'm educated, therefor "sheltered". what a briliant observation.
(this is what we call sarcasm)





[edit on 18-2-2005 by negativenihil]

Originally posted by negativenihil

you misunderstood me. i'd shoot the person doing the beheading.

Quit skirting the question and answer it directly would you?


Again I got that part but your daughter would be dead nonetheless,

Let me ask this one more time,

If you had only to torture a fellow human being who was party to the soon to be beheading of a close family member, would you condone it if you knew the innocent life would be saved?

Originally posted by negativenihil
first- if a child of mine were to be beheaded, i would most certianly want whomever was doing this beaheading dead.see?
No, WE do not know all the facts.
One fact that i do know- You support torture. plain and simple.

Under certain circumstances, I guess I do, just like capital punishment.

Originally posted by negativenihil

hah hah hah hah "zing" Yes, i'm educated, therefor "sheltered". what a briliant observation. (this is what we call sarcasm)

No but your rosy look at the world implies that you were. I payed my own way through college, so I saw many there that had it quite easy, and most were liberal minded, not in touch with reality. Maybe you different I really don't know, but I do know one thing, you have said torture under no circumstances and yet you fail to answer a simple question....

Originally posted by edsinger
If you had only to torture a fellow human being who was party to the soon to be beheading of a close family member, would you condone it if you knew the innocent life would be saved?

no matter how many times you ask this question, my answer will be the same.

torture is wrong. i do not support it under any situation.

stop changing your question, and stop twisting my answers.

No but your rosy look at the world implies that you were. I payed my own way through college, so I saw many there that had it quite easy, and most were liberal minded, not in touch with reality. Maybe you different I really don't know, but I do know one thing, you have said torture under no circumstances and yet you fail to answer a simple question....

Yes, again, you are assuming i've had the world handed to me on a silver plate, and once again, you've assumed wrong.

i have been on my own since age 18, and i paid EVERY CENT for my college education, so don't pull that "i worked my way up" bit either. i've been there, and i've done that AND I STILL DO NO SUPPORT TORTURE.



Do me a favor- Stop assuming so much about me.

[edit on 18-2-2005 by negativenihil]

[edit on 18-2-2005 by negativenihil]

Originally posted by negativenihilno matter how many times you ask this question, my answer will be the same. torture is wrong. i do not support it under any situation.stop changing your question, and stop twisting my answers.

OK you we have your final answer and I think you are clear, under NO circumstances. I however would condone it and maybe even do it to save a life. We will just have to disagree.

Originally posted by negativenihil
Yes, again, you are assuming i've had the world handed to me on a silver plate, and once again, you've assumed wrong.
i have been on my own since age 18, and i paid EVERY CENT for my college education, so don't pull that "i worked my way up" bit either. i've been there, and i've done that AND I STILL DO NO SUPPORT TORTURE.

Well congratualtions then, I guess I was wrong....one last assumption though.....LAS degree right?

Originally posted by edsinger
Well congratualtions then, I guess I was wrong....one last assumption though.....LAS degree right?

Wrong. CompSci.

Originally posted by negativenihil

Originally posted by edsinger
Well congratualtions then, I guess I was wrong....one last assumption though.....LAS degree right?

Wrong. CompSci.

Well I admit it then, I was wrong about that one, good thing I don't gamble much, I would have lost big time on that one.

Not getting into the damm fight in the first place helps a little bit in that situtation doesnt it?

amen brother, amen.

I was watching an a show on Al Jazeera and everytime Al Jazeera shows a captured or dead american or british soldier they have phone calls coming in bitching about how its against the geneva convention and all that crap, but as if the americans or the brits give a flying f**k about the geneva convention seeing as they show dead iraqis every day. In my opinion british and us army are a bunch of hypocrits.

The difference between Al Jazeera and our news shows is that Al Jazeera shows both sides of the story, dead iraqis and dead americans/brits.

[edit on 19-2-2005 by fishbrain]

Originally posted by fishbrain
I was watching an a show on Al Jazeera and everytime Al Jazeera shows a captured or dead american or british soldier they have phone calls coming in bitching about how its against the geneva convention and all that crap, but as if the americans or the brits give a flying f**k about the geneva convention seeing as they show dead iraqis every day. In my opinion british and us army are a bunch of hypocrits.

The difference between Al Jazeera and our news shows is that Al Jazeera shows both sides of the story, dead iraqis and dead americans/brits.

[edit on 19-2-2005 by fishbrain]

Personally i dont think thats quite true but hey thats your opinion man, i dont agree but i respect it.

I have never heard of a british geneva convention breaking member of the armed forces, nethier for the US as well....
The tactics used personally in my opinion is that the tactics used are really sick and sadistic but hey they think its necessary go ahead, i just wouldnt want to be one when ethier the british forces or the US forces.

Maybe im wrong about that ive never read the geneva convention but what you just said there i thought that goes against it.

"The tactics used personally in my opinion is that the tactics used are really sick and sadistic but hey they think its necessary go ahead"

The geneva convention states that all prisoners of war be treated humanly.

Originally posted by fishbrain

The geneva convention states that all prisoners of war be treated humanly.

And the Japanese did no such thing either even though they signed it.....

For the most part, the prisoners in US custody are treated far more human the what the US prisoners in insurgent custody are and you know it.

"and you know it"

No I dont know it and neither do you, ive never been inside an american or iraqi prisoner of war camp have you? If i was to take a guess id say your right though, id say the american and british soldiers go through hell in iraqi prison camps but that doesnt mean its okay for america to do the same.