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Finally, the Trump is Putin's puppet narrative is dead... and has been

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posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 12:34 PM
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a reply to: gortex


Putin knows the only way to hurt America is from within which is why the Russians tried (and succeeded) to influence the elections so the person they thought would be more damaging to the fabric of American society won.


I agree, only thing I'd add is he played both sides.

This conversation was going to be had no matter who won.




posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 12:34 PM
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originally posted by: Middleoftheroad

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
Love or hate Trump (I'm somewhere in the middle), the "Russian Narrative" has so far shown to be a waste of money, resources, and has served as a distraction taking up much of the medias time....

The point is, if anything, Trump has proved to be more hostile to Russia than the previous Administration. That should cast doubt onto him being "Putin's puppet" or Putin having something on him as leverage. That narrative has been bolstered to the point that if you don't just accept it, you live under a rock or are delusional. That form of projection on the left has created a dangerous environment, and one that they are continuing to encourage.


This is merely you're opinion, and actually doesn't make it fact. The manner in which you can equate your complete lack of judicial expertese to make an assertion like that belies the truth of your assertion: That you are saying what you really wish was the case, not what actually is.

Secondly, how does Trump being super hard on Russia fit in with his most recent reticence to actually enact further sanctions (again) that the Republican controlled congress requested?


Do you even know why Nicki wanted those sanctions? Second, can you provide proof the Syrian government or Russia used the chemical weapon on civilians? Third, can you provide proof chemical weapons were used?

Seems everyone likes to just take the MSM's word for it, but not surprising at this point. You people are complete sheep these days. What happened to the ATS that used to verify the truth and deny ignorance?


When Russia is preventing UN inspectors from investigating the site we assume guilt. Just like when a party in a criminal investigation doesn't want you to look into some aspect of the case, there's only a couple of logical reasons why they wouldn't want it.



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 12:35 PM
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originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Wayfarer


This is merely you're opinion, and actually doesn't make it fact. The manner in which you can equate your complete lack of judicial expertese to make an assertion like that belies the truth of your assertion: That you are saying what you really wish was the case, not what actually is.




But I'm open minded. Throw it on me, how is he in bed with Russia? Give me more than nixing a round of sanctions for an action we haven't gotten evidence on.


If you are truly open minded then simply wait for Mueller's investigation to give its report. Its that simple.



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 12:42 PM
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originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Wayfarer


This is merely you're opinion, and actually doesn't make it fact. The manner in which you can equate your complete lack of judicial expertese to make an assertion like that belies the truth of your assertion: That you are saying what you really wish was the case, not what actually is.




But I'm open minded. Throw it on me, how is he in bed with Russia? Give me more than nixing a round of sanctions for an action we haven't gotten evidence on.


If you are truly open minded then simply wait for Mueller's investigation to give its report. Its that simple.


All while half the country is demanding action against Russia?

Funny how some are asked to wait and not others.



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 12:48 PM
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originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Wayfarer


This is merely you're opinion, and actually doesn't make it fact. The manner in which you can equate your complete lack of judicial expertese to make an assertion like that belies the truth of your assertion: That you are saying what you really wish was the case, not what actually is.




But I'm open minded. Throw it on me, how is he in bed with Russia? Give me more than nixing a round of sanctions for an action we haven't gotten evidence on.


If you are truly open minded then simply wait for Mueller's investigation to give its report. Its that simple.



Interesting.. When on a witch hunt, one can always find a witch.

Mueller is an interesting critter, however, I trust him about as much as I trust Comey, or anyone else with ties to a bunch of other government people.. Back-scratching abounds.



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 12:57 PM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker


Lets let it die people, maybe they had some trolls sway some opinions, but that's about as far as that story goes. And if we go off of tangible facts in light of recent events... If anything, he's anti Russia.


He's anti-Russia because of a handful of appointments and the bombing of some buildings in Syria? Ugh.

Firstly, it was more than "maybe they had some trolls" — though it's interesting that you're reluctant to make a definitive statement about something that's now beyond dispute. I'm not wasting my time on a lengthy election meddling post but if you want to talk about dead narratives, how about the narrative that Russian meddling in the election was a made up narrative to explain Trump winning the election? The troll farm # was proved, what are you going to say when Mueller drops charges in the hacking/phishing attacks? "Oh well, it was some trolls and some hacking but that's about it" ?

But let's set aside election meddling and talk about some other things.

We know that while Paul Manafort was running Trump's campaign, he was trying to use his position to get back into the good graces of Oleg Deripaska. We know for instance that he was offering Putin's pal private briefings. Why? What use would that be to Deripaska personally? None. We also learned that in the recent past, Deripaska paid Manafort millions of dollars a year to advance a pro-Putin agenda in the West. There is really good reason to believe that Manafort was hoping to peddle influence over Trump to the Russians.

Was that some narrative the Left made up? No.

Or how about the sketchy # with Cohen and Felix Sater? First, we know that despite all the "I don't have anything to do with Russia bull#," at the end of 2015, Trump was trying to get a Trump Tower built in Moscow. We also know that Felix Sater got Cohen to personally reach out to Putin's spokesman to ask for help in that matter in what? January of 2016? I guess we should ignore Sater's promises to get Putin's people on board with getting "their boy" (Trump) elected because it's not clear that Sater has connections that go that high but it's interesting no? And again, not something the Left simply made up.

What *is* known though is pretty concerning on its own. Felix Sater got Michael Cohen to meet with a Ukranian Member of Parliament (Andrii V. Artemenko) after the inauguration. At that meeting, Artemenko pitched a "peace plan" in which Russia would lease Crimea from Ukraine for 50 or 100 years and the US would lift sanctions on Russia.

According to Artemenko, the plan had been endorsed by top Putin aides. In addition to the plan, Artemenko supposedly had some sort of kompromat on the current Ukrainian President which included, among other things, details of wire transfers that would prove corruption. The purpose there is clear.

What happened? Michael Cohen took the envelope from Artemenko and hand delivered it to the desk of Flynn. Artemenko I should mention, went home to a #storm and lost his Ukrainian citizenship.

Did the Left make that up? Was that a media invention to create a false narrative?

And speaking of Flynn, do you think that the incoming admin was super anti-Russian when Flynn was on the phone with Kislyak, undercutting the Obama admin's punitive response to Russian meddling in the election? Again, was this something the Left made up?

What happened immediately before that? Kislyak met in Trump Tower with Kushner and Flynn. In that meeting, Kushner admits asking Kislyak if the Trump transition team could use space in the Russian embassy to communicate privately with the Russians.

Those are just a few examples but they're seemingly everywhere. Under every single effing rock that is turned, there's some new Russia-related development with Team Trump.

These are things that happened. They happened while Russia was meddling in the election to benefit Donald Trump and after he was elected.

I'll continue in another post.



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 01:01 PM
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originally posted by: CriticalStinker

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Wayfarer


This is merely you're opinion, and actually doesn't make it fact. The manner in which you can equate your complete lack of judicial expertese to make an assertion like that belies the truth of your assertion: That you are saying what you really wish was the case, not what actually is.




But I'm open minded. Throw it on me, how is he in bed with Russia? Give me more than nixing a round of sanctions for an action we haven't gotten evidence on.


If you are truly open minded then simply wait for Mueller's investigation to give its report. Its that simple.


All while half the country is demanding action against Russia?

Funny how some are asked to wait and not others.


You are conflating 2 separate issues: 1.) Trump's potential ties to Russia, and 2.) Russia's involvement in Syrian Chemical Weapons.



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 01:02 PM
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originally posted by: Cygnis

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Wayfarer


This is merely you're opinion, and actually doesn't make it fact. The manner in which you can equate your complete lack of judicial expertese to make an assertion like that belies the truth of your assertion: That you are saying what you really wish was the case, not what actually is.




But I'm open minded. Throw it on me, how is he in bed with Russia? Give me more than nixing a round of sanctions for an action we haven't gotten evidence on.


If you are truly open minded then simply wait for Mueller's investigation to give its report. Its that simple.



Interesting.. When on a witch hunt, one can always find a witch.

Mueller is an interesting critter, however, I trust him about as much as I trust Comey, or anyone else with ties to a bunch of other government people.. Back-scratching abounds.


Sounds like you've bought the Trump propaganda (which is suspicious inasmuch as his modus operandi has been to de-legitimize Mueller's investigation because he's just so 'innocent'). I take it you've already made up your mind and no matter what Mueller's report states you won't believe it if its critical of Trump in any way.....



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 01:08 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

Oh please.

Heee we go again.

Yep those troll farms!!!!

17 Russians posting on Facebook overpowered hundreds of millions of dollars from Hillary and the msm nearly entirely supporting her.

It’s so laughable.

But sure, I guess that’s messing. Unfortunately, that sort of meddling by Russians and many other countries has been occurring for decades.

And Obama knew this, yet laughed off Russia being a concern.

So again, it’s only when the Dems lose that now it is a grave concern.

Meanwhile what have Manafort and gates been charged with involving Russia?

Working with Mercer and the lodestar group while Hillary was sos to provide access to pro Russian foreigners to Hillary and political people of both parties. But I guess Obama didn’t know about that when he was laughing about them being a problem.

How about using a kremlin sourced dossier to spy on people in trumps team?

Nothing to see there, only trumps team Russians can’t mnections are worth investigating

How about uranium one, Russian interests giving millions to the Clinton foundation, bill meeting putin in private then being paid half a million by a Russian bank?

Nope the meddling THIS Election is all that matters.

All of that above happened while obama was in office.

As Greenwald clearly lays out in the article, trump has been harder on Russia than obama was.

So tell me, where we’re the cries from everyone screaming about Russians to look in to Russian connections to Hillary and obama?

They are silent, because it’s not about Russian influence being a worry, it’s about the Dems being upset they lost and being hypocritical in now pretending that Russia is a problem



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 01:15 PM
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originally posted by: kurthall
a reply to: rickymouse

Uh, trump was forced to sign sanctions against Russia. He had them for months before he signed them...Never Untill 2016 have we had the amount of Russia BS that they have been pulling. I mean come on, Russia has really been pulling a lot of stunts. trump HAS to do something, he can not just sit back and do nothing, how would that make him look. He did nothing, for over a year, to punish Russia, Russia just keeps doing messed up things. trump SHOULD have been doing way more in 2017 about Russia!!!!! Instead of BLAMING Obama. He has been the POTUS, for 16 months, and just started taking some action against Russia.





So, your solution is to create tension and possibly escalate the chance of a world war where most regular people would die and most government officials would live. Ok. I see some very lousy diplomatic relations going on in the world today, we do not have to be friends with Russia but we do not need to be their enemy either.

Unless you are blind, you would see that if a world war did break out, China and many countries would align with Russia, they are sick of Europeans and Americans screwing them over. They cannot challenge the west on their own though, they are not strong enough by themselves.. When we say all people here have rights and freedoms then go exploit the rights of others we are not showing compassion or equality. The way we are acting in the west is just how major empires acted before they were overthrown.
edit on 17-4-2018 by rickymouse because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 01:21 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian


Firstly, it was more than "maybe they had some trolls" — though it's interesting that you're reluctant to make a definitive statement about something that's now beyond dispute. I'm not wasting my time on a lengthy election meddling post but if you want to talk about dead narratives, how about the narrative that Russian meddling in the election was a made up narrative to explain Trump winning the election? The troll farm # was proved, what are you going to say when Mueller drops charges in the hacking/phishing attacks? "Oh well, it was some trolls and some hacking but that's about it" ?


I said maybe those trolls swayed some opinions.... a little bit further than saying "they might exist"

Yes there were trolls, our media and opinions are also broadcasted across the globe and help shape opinions.

But I digress.... should the investigation come to charge someone with credible evidence, than more power to it, let those who have committed crimes do their time.

I made it clear that this is not a pro Trump thread, and as for the "let the narrative die".... its just that, let the narrative die, one that is spoken in absolutes and right now doesn't have much tangible evidence that Russia stole the election for Trump.

The end of the OP was the clear point, and that is foreign policy should not be reflected or encouraged off of maybes or even probablies.

This society is so charged they're willing to allow attacks on foreign countries on "we're confident they used chemical weapons" or "it sure is fishy that some people had associations with other rich people"

Maybe you're right, but I still hold to everything said in the OP.

That being said, this was more about the "Trump being Putin's puppet" narrative than anything else. We'll all see one day about the election, though I doubt it was as severe as people are saying in absolutes.



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 01:21 PM
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originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Cygnis

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Wayfarer


This is merely you're opinion, and actually doesn't make it fact. The manner in which you can equate your complete lack of judicial expertese to make an assertion like that belies the truth of your assertion: That you are saying what you really wish was the case, not what actually is.




But I'm open minded. Throw it on me, how is he in bed with Russia? Give me more than nixing a round of sanctions for an action we haven't gotten evidence on.


If you are truly open minded then simply wait for Mueller's investigation to give its report. Its that simple.



Interesting.. When on a witch hunt, one can always find a witch.

Mueller is an interesting critter, however, I trust him about as much as I trust Comey, or anyone else with ties to a bunch of other government people.. Back-scratching abounds.


Sounds like you've bought the Trump propaganda (which is suspicious inasmuch as his modus operandi has been to de-legitimize Mueller's investigation because he's just so 'innocent'). I take it you've already made up your mind and no matter what Mueller's report states you won't believe it if its critical of Trump in any way.....


Very telling you to assume I've bought into anything, or anyone and drunk their kool-aid. Perhaps you should re-evaluate your own self before presuming to know another you have only interacted with, limitedly, a time or two?

As the saying goes "I don't trust anyone who makes more than I do".

I make about $8.46/hr, so I don't really trust anyone.

However, agenda-driven people are the hardest to trust. It's like a used car salesperson, the talk is great but the BS is so thick.

Anymore, things are so partisan and charged I'm really surprised there isn't open bloodshed in the streets and war across the world with the vitriol spread across all sides of most alignments and arguments.

Personally, I don't care what goes on in the great grand soap-opera we call government. It reminds me of a poorly written sit-com from the mid-80's.

I think if you all would pull your heads out of your backsides, and focus on the important things, we'd be cruising the stars, no one would be homeless or hungry. But, no one seems to be able to agree on the goal, we're to focused on who's got what and how much more they have or what they're doing and how we don't approve because of our own predisposed notions.



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 01:22 PM
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originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: CriticalStinker

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Wayfarer


This is merely you're opinion, and actually doesn't make it fact. The manner in which you can equate your complete lack of judicial expertese to make an assertion like that belies the truth of your assertion: That you are saying what you really wish was the case, not what actually is.




But I'm open minded. Throw it on me, how is he in bed with Russia? Give me more than nixing a round of sanctions for an action we haven't gotten evidence on.


If you are truly open minded then simply wait for Mueller's investigation to give its report. Its that simple.


All while half the country is demanding action against Russia?

Funny how some are asked to wait and not others.


You are conflating 2 separate issues: 1.) Trump's potential ties to Russia, and 2.) Russia's involvement in Syrian Chemical Weapons.


Which again, my guess is you didn't read the OP... because that's literally what its about.



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 01:23 PM
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originally posted by: CriticalStinker

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: CriticalStinker

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Wayfarer


This is merely you're opinion, and actually doesn't make it fact. The manner in which you can equate your complete lack of judicial expertese to make an assertion like that belies the truth of your assertion: That you are saying what you really wish was the case, not what actually is.




But I'm open minded. Throw it on me, how is he in bed with Russia? Give me more than nixing a round of sanctions for an action we haven't gotten evidence on.


If you are truly open minded then simply wait for Mueller's investigation to give its report. Its that simple.


All while half the country is demanding action against Russia?

Funny how some are asked to wait and not others.


You are conflating 2 separate issues: 1.) Trump's potential ties to Russia, and 2.) Russia's involvement in Syrian Chemical Weapons.


Which again, my guess is you didn't read the OP... because that's literally what its about.


I did read it. My reply was in response to your quote, "Funny how some are asked to wait and not others.", to explain why some people wanted immediate action on Russia while at the same time wanting to wait and see about the Mueller probe. Its not a difficult concept.



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 01:25 PM
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originally posted by: Cygnis

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Cygnis

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Wayfarer


This is merely you're opinion, and actually doesn't make it fact. The manner in which you can equate your complete lack of judicial expertese to make an assertion like that belies the truth of your assertion: That you are saying what you really wish was the case, not what actually is.




But I'm open minded. Throw it on me, how is he in bed with Russia? Give me more than nixing a round of sanctions for an action we haven't gotten evidence on.


If you are truly open minded then simply wait for Mueller's investigation to give its report. Its that simple.



Interesting.. When on a witch hunt, one can always find a witch.

Mueller is an interesting critter, however, I trust him about as much as I trust Comey, or anyone else with ties to a bunch of other government people.. Back-scratching abounds.


Sounds like you've bought the Trump propaganda (which is suspicious inasmuch as his modus operandi has been to de-legitimize Mueller's investigation because he's just so 'innocent'). I take it you've already made up your mind and no matter what Mueller's report states you won't believe it if its critical of Trump in any way.....


Very telling you to assume I've bought into anything, or anyone and drunk their kool-aid.....


Your previous response to me referencing 'Witch Hunt' is evidence that you are already viewing the Mueller investigation from a biased perspective. It can't really be any more clear than that.



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 01:29 PM
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originally posted by: Middleoftheroad

originally posted by: rickymouse
a reply to: CriticalStinker

I look at every event as a separate issue. I cannot conclude how Trump is till four years down the line, after I see how all his policies ended up. I do see a lot of chaos coming out of the left that is irrational, I see the media as a joke nowadays, a cruel joke. I used to disagree with Fox, now I think Fox was a mild version of what is going on now, MSM has gotten way out of hand, it needs to be stopped.

As far as Comey, the left bribed him to say things by saying he will get rich off a book. This is not considered an actual bribe, MSM is promoting this book for him. This is a dangerous practice, that book is close to treason, written by someone who should have been sent to prison for letting out classified information. What the F is happening to our society these days, we are doomed to fall apart. Liberal and conservative are supposed to be in balance, the liberals are losing it and are way out of line. We all have rights, the liberals are stepping on others toes and forcing their beliefs on others. I used to be proud of being a moderate liberal, now I want to be as far from the liberals as I can get. Something is poisoning their minds and the minds of others. I think it is in the food supply, the plant defense chemicals take many generations to properly get accustomed to. Pushing veggies on people, especially the stronger organic ones, may be a mistake. Plant defense chemicals get stronger in the absence of pesticides, some of those plant defense chemicals are way worse on our minds than any man made one.



The moderate liberals have more respect now than ever from the right in my opinion. I'm a Trump supporter (I hate both sides), my mother is a moderate liberal (also hates both sides), and my father in law is basically in the SJW category. Let's just say my mother and I don't agree on a lot of things, but can have a constructive conversation about politics. My father in law thinks were both Hillary supporters just so we don't have to hear his nonsense. It would be funny if it wasn't so ridiculous.


I probably should have said farther left liberal. I know a lot of older people, the older woman did not vote for Hillary, they have been coaxed all their lives by saleswomen to do things they really did not want to do and see Hillary as one of the two faced high pressure sales women. They did believe we need a woman president, just not Hillary.

I have seen people in the moderate liberal class sucked into hate for Republicans and Trump lately, they watch the news and read the first two paragraphs of political issues in the newspaper and are tricked into believing the worst. The media knows most people only read the headline and the first two paragraphs. That is common knowledge.

I have been seeing half of the moderate liberals I know getting sucked into this. We are talking liberals and conservatives, not political party. For some though, they tie Trump in as a businessman, the republicans have been more allied to businesses, but if you actually look closely, just as many businesses are liberal. The companies making the most off of technology seem to be liberal. Not the ones growing our food and producing supplies we need.

I am trying to stay in the middle, but the liberals keep trying to force me on their side and I do intermingle with lots of real people who are liberals. I even see conservative people blasting conservatives these days, convinced that conservatives are bad. Trump is by no means conservative, he is a Liberal who is in the Republican presidency.



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 01:29 PM
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originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Cygnis

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Cygnis

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Wayfarer


This is merely you're opinion, and actually doesn't make it fact. The manner in which you can equate your complete lack of judicial expertese to make an assertion like that belies the truth of your assertion: That you are saying what you really wish was the case, not what actually is.




But I'm open minded. Throw it on me, how is he in bed with Russia? Give me more than nixing a round of sanctions for an action we haven't gotten evidence on.


If you are truly open minded then simply wait for Mueller's investigation to give its report. Its that simple.



Interesting.. When on a witch hunt, one can always find a witch.

Mueller is an interesting critter, however, I trust him about as much as I trust Comey, or anyone else with ties to a bunch of other government people.. Back-scratching abounds.


Sounds like you've bought the Trump propaganda (which is suspicious inasmuch as his modus operandi has been to de-legitimize Mueller's investigation because he's just so 'innocent'). I take it you've already made up your mind and no matter what Mueller's report states you won't believe it if its critical of Trump in any way.....


Very telling you to assume I've bought into anything, or anyone and drunk their kool-aid.....


Your previous response to me referencing 'Witch Hunt' is evidence that you are already viewing the Mueller investigation from a biased perspective. It can't really be any more clear than that.


Because there will be more after what Mueller finds, additional calls of collusion regarding his investigation, more sub-plots, and turn about. It's literally like a spin-off of the main soap-opera with a sub-plot and will go on for years and amount to a pile of "He said", "She wrote", "They thought", "Documents show". and on and on and on..

If you can't be unbiased, how can you expect Mueller to be unbiased as well?
edit on C18143035 by Cygnis because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 01:31 PM
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a reply to: Wayfarer


This thread was not meant to be a pro Trump thread. Personally, I'm not thrilled with recent action in Syria, nor do I see any point in antagonizing Russia.


Cool, so if it comes out and parties are at guilt we'll deal with it.

The literal point of the article and this thread is we shouldn't speak in absolutes before it comes out to drive foreign policy.

But as it stands, it doesn't look like Trump is Putins puppet, the title of the thread.

So what are you arguing?



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 01:33 PM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker

As for proof that Trump is somehow harder on Russia.

- Let's not forget that off the bat, the Trump administration was promising Russia behind the scenes that they were going to undue whatever punitive actions Obama took in regards to election meddling. That alone should cast serious doubt on the idea that Trump is somehow anti-Russia.

- Then the Trump administration drug it's feet in regards to sanctions that had been passed by Congress and what was it that was said? That the threat of sanctions had done enough?

- Trump appointees have point blank testified to Congress that Trump had given them no indication that he wanted them to do anything regarding continuing Russian meddling. This is the guy who leaned on Comey not to investigate Flynn — who has had a year+ long tantrum about the investigations into Russian interference into the election — but he hasn't expressed any particular concern to his appointed intelligence heads about taking measures to stop future meddling?

- It's now been reported that when the US expelled 60 Russians (and note, we expelled THOSE particular Russians, we didn't change the numbers of "diplomatic" staff Russia is allowed to have in the US), Trump's position was that he didn't want the US to be seen as taking a lead. Furthermore, when he found out that we'd expelled more than anyone else, he was reportedly furious.

As for the examples that Greenwald gives of appointments. Was Nikki Haley particularly well known as a Russia hawk prior to be nominated ambassador to the UN? I know Richard Grenell is hawkish on Russia but so are a lot people in the GOP establishment and more importantly, Grenell was a prominent backer of Trump.

The mot hawkish of the bunch is John Bolton but I don't think Trump picked him simply because he was hawkish on Russia (he's hawkish in general) and arguably, he's not too hawkish not too pro-gun rights videos for Russia friends of the NRA. John Bolton is like the second largest receiver of funding from Robert Mercer and among the first to make use of Cambridge Analytica's services. In fact, it was a little surprising that Bolton didn't land an appointment from the jump just like the rest of the Mercer-Bannon crew. And if you'll remember, Bolton was being mentioned as a potential pick for Secretary of State during the transition.

That was at the same time that Flynn was on the phone with Kislyak telling him not to worry that Trump would roll back any sanctions.

Most recently, Nikki Haley just announced that there would be additional sanctions only to be made to look foolish when the administration *apparently* reversed course immediately after.

So yeah, he's got some hawks around him but when it comes to taking action against Russia, Trump has had to be pushed into it by Congress and by a need to show solidarity with our closest allies.

But he blew up some buildings in Syria, so...

We don't know what Trump actually thinks nor do we really know what his advisors have told him but to me it seems to me that his behavior indicates a serious reluctance to take action against Russia. It could be because he can't bring himself to acknowledge Russian meddling in the election, it could be because he feels somehow grateful to Russia, it could be because he has some level of fear of reprisal from Putin. I don't know.

I do know that Russia threatened a big planned response if we attacked the Assad regime and so far nothing has happened. Maybe it's coming or maybe they worked out something back channel.

Maybe it was all for show. Or maybe Trump's ego has been engaged in Syria and that's a stronger pressure than whatever warm and fuzzies he has for Vlad. There's bound to be factors we're oblivious to. Whatever the case may be, the notion that Trump is somehow personally hawkish on Russia let alone anti-Russian doesn't really seem to be well demonstrated and I don't find Greenwald's arguments particularly persuasive.



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 01:34 PM
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originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Wayfarer


This thread was not meant to be a pro Trump thread. Personally, I'm not thrilled with recent action in Syria, nor do I see any point in antagonizing Russia.


Cool, so if it comes out and parties are at guilt we'll deal with it.

The literal point of the article and this thread is we shouldn't speak in absolutes before it comes out to drive foreign policy.

But as it stands, it doesn't look like Trump is Putins puppet, the title of the thread.

So what are you arguing?


Predisposed certainties that he/she has already decided are truth.

We accuse others, blindly, of that which we are guilty of ourselves.




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