What happened to the left?

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
If “the left”—so much as that term means anything anymore—and those who seem to defend that word, would find some principles, promote and defend their principles away from the relativism and post-modernism they are accustomed to, the entirety of the political spectrum would be healthier.

The same could be said about "the right".

I think the bigger problem is not about Left or Right. It's about honesty.

If we were honest in our conversations and how we receive information, we would have much more productive outcomes.

If we were honest, we would not read disingenuous posts such as yours that do nothing more than perpetuate ignorance.

Is that a principle I see in the midst of that post-modernist mosh mash? No, it’s just a fake principle, wielded haphazardly and only to seek advantage over your enemies, after which it is thrown back to the winds of your power-hunger and feelings.

See. More dishonesty.

You say we need to be principled and when one stands up for one or articulates it, you claim it to be fake and continue to assume the motive behind stating that principle to be nefarious is some manner.

I don't think you could have illustrated my point any better. We cannot have decent conversations until people like yourself are honest enough to admit that it doesn't matter what is said to you. You have your agenda and will do whatever it takes to perpetuate it. Even claiming to want one thing and then denouncing it when you get it.

It's like a high maintenance woman that is never satisfied, even when she is given the everything she wants.

We get to watch in real time as you hold a principle to others you refuse to hold to yourself. Good show.

a reply to: TrueBrit

While I usually find myself in agreement with you I must say on this one I respectfully disagree.

As is your right, my friend... but lets look at the reasoning here, just for giggles.

There may be no one small group that represents all liberals on every topic, but when its time to vote they walk the party line with the rest. Their supports goes to the party that is driven by the many small groups each courting its own segment of the liberal herd.

But do they though? You will recall that during the last general election, some people who were going to vote Bernie, voted Trump instead, just to spite Hillary. They did this even though they knew that if he got in, it would be devastating to their cause, but they took Hillary down because she was dirty and they knew it, refusing to vote for her in droves... Remember, she was favourite to win that race, hands down favourite. She lost though. So its not at all the case that people toe the line, especially not since that election.

As for the suppression of free speech, try getting a conservative speaker in to Berkeley. It won't happen. The answer is always the same evasive tactic - you can speak all you want, just not here. That may be, but it is not in the true spirit of free speech.

And I wonder, is that purely a result of protests, or is it a result of weakness on the part of campus leadership? And are we talking about legitimate right wing speakers, or are we talking about the modern fascist, the alt-right speaker?

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
If “the left”—so much as that term means anything anymore—and those who seem to defend that word, would find some principles, promote and defend their principles away from the relativism and post-modernism they are accustomed to, the entirety of the political spectrum would be healthier.

The same could be said about "the right".

I think the bigger problem is not about Left or Right. It's about honesty.

If we were honest in our conversations and how we receive information, we would have much more productive outcomes.

If we were honest, we would not read disingenuous posts such as yours that do nothing more than perpetuate ignorance.

Is that a principle I see in the midst of that post-modernist mosh mash? No, it’s just a fake principle, wielded haphazardly and only to seek advantage over your enemies, after which it is thrown back to the winds of your power-hunger and feelings.

See. More dishonesty.

You say we need to be principled and when one stands up for one or articulates it, you claim it to be fake and continue to assume the motive behind stating that principle to be nefarious is some manner.

I don't think you could have illustrated my point any better. We cannot have decent conversations until people like yourself are honest enough to admit that it doesn't matter what is said to you. You have your agenda and will do whatever it takes to perpetuate it. Even claiming to want one thing and then denouncing it when you get it.

It's like a high maintenance woman that is never satisfied, even when she is given the everything she wants.

We get to watch in real time as you hold a principle to others you refuse to hold to yourself. Good show.

What principle did I hold others to that I have refused to hold myself to? Am I not being honest? Can you quote the post in which I refused to hold myself to that standard, please?

You, on the other hand, are not. You asked for something and when it is given to you, you say it's not good enough.

You point fingers at people saying they need to show principles and follow that up by showing your lack in principles.

You do know what they say about hypocrisy being a character trait, don't you? I think you have become a fine example of that saying.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
If “the left”—so much as that term means anything anymore—and those who seem to defend that word, would find some principles, promote and defend their principles away from the relativism and post-modernism they are accustomed to, the entirety of the political spectrum would be healthier.

The same could be said about "the right".

I think the bigger problem is not about Left or Right. It's about honesty.

If we were honest in our conversations and how we receive information, we would have much more productive outcomes.

If we were honest, we would not read disingenuous posts such as yours that do nothing more than perpetuate ignorance.

Is that a principle I see in the midst of that post-modernist mosh mash? No, it’s just a fake principle, wielded haphazardly and only to seek advantage over your enemies, after which it is thrown back to the winds of your power-hunger and feelings.

See. More dishonesty.

You say we need to be principled and when one stands up for one or articulates it, you claim it to be fake and continue to assume the motive behind stating that principle to be nefarious is some manner.

I don't think you could have illustrated my point any better. We cannot have decent conversations until people like yourself are honest enough to admit that it doesn't matter what is said to you. You have your agenda and will do whatever it takes to perpetuate it. Even claiming to want one thing and then denouncing it when you get it.

It's like a high maintenance woman that is never satisfied, even when she is given the everything she wants.

We get to watch in real time as you hold a principle to others you refuse to hold to yourself. Good show.

What principle did I hold others to that I have refused to hold myself to? Am I not being honest? Can you quote the post in which I refused to hold myself to that standard, please?

You, on the other hand, are not. You asked for something and when it is given to you, you say it's not good enough.

You point fingers at people saying they need to show principles and follow that up by showing your lack in principles.

You do know what they say about hypocrisy being a character trait, don't you? I think you have become a fine example of that saying.

I’ve conversed with you enough to know that honesty is your very last concern. That you pull it out now when challenged is, well, dishonest.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
If “the left”—so much as that term means anything anymore—and those who seem to defend that word, would find some principles, promote and defend their principles away from the relativism and post-modernism they are accustomed to, the entirety of the political spectrum would be healthier.

The same could be said about "the right".

I think the bigger problem is not about Left or Right. It's about honesty.

If we were honest in our conversations and how we receive information, we would have much more productive outcomes.

If we were honest, we would not read disingenuous posts such as yours that do nothing more than perpetuate ignorance.

Is that a principle I see in the midst of that post-modernist mosh mash? No, it’s just a fake principle, wielded haphazardly and only to seek advantage over your enemies, after which it is thrown back to the winds of your power-hunger and feelings.

See. More dishonesty.

You say we need to be principled and when one stands up for one or articulates it, you claim it to be fake and continue to assume the motive behind stating that principle to be nefarious is some manner.

I don't think you could have illustrated my point any better. We cannot have decent conversations until people like yourself are honest enough to admit that it doesn't matter what is said to you. You have your agenda and will do whatever it takes to perpetuate it. Even claiming to want one thing and then denouncing it when you get it.

It's like a high maintenance woman that is never satisfied, even when she is given the everything she wants.

We get to watch in real time as you hold a principle to others you refuse to hold to yourself. Good show.

What principle did I hold others to that I have refused to hold myself to? Am I not being honest? Can you quote the post in which I refused to hold myself to that standard, please?

You, on the other hand, are not. You asked for something and when it is given to you, you say it's not good enough.

You point fingers at people saying they need to show principles and follow that up by showing your lack in principles.

You do know what they say about hypocrisy being a character trait, don't you? I think you have become a fine example of that saying.

I’ve conversed with you enough to know that honesty is your very last concern. That you pull it out now when challenged is, well, dishonest.

So no quote to back up your assertions, huh? How unsurprising and dishonest of you.

As usual LesMis, your arguments boil-down to being nothing more than "I know you are but what am I"-style of childishness and you cannot backup your claims whatsoever.

That being said, I stand by my original assertion. People need to stop being dishonest and your posts are a great example why. You only put yourself in positions of hypocrisy when you lack the ability and willingness to engage people honestly and, ironically, with a bit or principle.

There is a term used in the area where I grew up for the type of people I am describing and I think it fits nicely to describe your posts.

That term is chicken#.

originally posted by: rexsblues
Socialists finally have their target audience, a desperate populace with short attention spans and no reference or comprehension of what it is they're really asking for.

You mean like how millions blindly voted for trump with false promises?

Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field."
But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
If “the left”—so much as that term means anything anymore—and those who seem to defend that word, would find some principles, promote and defend their principles away from the relativism and post-modernism they are accustomed to, the entirety of the political spectrum would be healthier.

The same could be said about "the right".

I think the bigger problem is not about Left or Right. It's about honesty.

If we were honest in our conversations and how we receive information, we would have much more productive outcomes.

If we were honest, we would not read disingenuous posts such as yours that do nothing more than perpetuate ignorance.

Is that a principle I see in the midst of that post-modernist mosh mash? No, it’s just a fake principle, wielded haphazardly and only to seek advantage over your enemies, after which it is thrown back to the winds of your power-hunger and feelings.

See. More dishonesty.

You say we need to be principled and when one stands up for one or articulates it, you claim it to be fake and continue to assume the motive behind stating that principle to be nefarious is some manner.

I don't think you could have illustrated my point any better. We cannot have decent conversations until people like yourself are honest enough to admit that it doesn't matter what is said to you. You have your agenda and will do whatever it takes to perpetuate it. Even claiming to want one thing and then denouncing it when you get it.

It's like a high maintenance woman that is never satisfied, even when she is given the everything she wants.

We get to watch in real time as you hold a principle to others you refuse to hold to yourself. Good show.

What principle did I hold others to that I have refused to hold myself to? Am I not being honest? Can you quote the post in which I refused to hold myself to that standard, please?

You, on the other hand, are not. You asked for something and when it is given to you, you say it's not good enough.

You point fingers at people saying they need to show principles and follow that up by showing your lack in principles.

You do know what they say about hypocrisy being a character trait, don't you? I think you have become a fine example of that saying.

I’ve conversed with you enough to know that honesty is your very last concern. That you pull it out now when challenged is, well, dishonest.

So no quote to back up your assertions, huh? How unsurprising and dishonest of you.

As usual LesMis, your arguments boil-down to being nothing more than "I know you are but what am I"-style of childishness and you cannot backup your claims whatsoever.

That being said, I stand by my original assertion. People need to stop being dishonest and your posts are a great example why. You only put yourself in positions of hypocrisy when you lack the ability and willingness to engage people honestly and, ironically, with a bit or principle.

There is a term used in the area where I grew up for the type of people I am describing and I think it fits nicely to describe your posts.

That term is chicken#.

I am engaging with you and others honestly. The problem I see with your assertions is that you either do not know what honesty is, or that you claim to be honest at precisely the time it benefits you most. I think that’s the problem with most relativists.

originally posted by: MiddleInsite
a reply to: Dfairlite

1. The left has always believed in boycotts. Nothing new. And boycotts ARE freedom of speech.

2. Joy Behar doesn't speak for the left, she speaks for herself.

3. There was an assault weapons ban from 1994 till 2004. Not a new concept.

4. And Cohen had due process and a warrant was issued. All legal.

And really, are you all that concerned about us liberals? Or is this just another thread to b!tch about the left?

Don’t think folks are concerned about you liberals. I think they are more concerned about your subservise attempts to destroy the USA through a dismantling of the US Constitution and Bill of Rights. I’m sure you won’t see it that way as you would have to firmly believe in those two documents as the unimpeacheable framework the USA was built upon and were meant to sustain her forever. Most true and honest liberals don’t see it that way.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

3) And it had little effect on crime because (shocking, I know...) criminals don't obey the law. 

Seemingly some of your worst crimes and massacres have been committed by people who were seen as law-abiding citizens.

Drug dealers don't tend to go on massacres, it's probably bad for business.

Call me ignorant but it's not the guns that's the problem, it's your mental health support or the lack of it.

I guess pride has something to do with it too?

Most murders are done by a relative or someone known to the victim l, the "I killed her cause she was screwing around" kind of thing?

I feel sorry for the US tbh, most people handle their stress ideally. As in not shooting up a school full of bullies... But for the ones that can or will?

Yeah. It's not the guns but certain people within your society. Criminals are predictable, people who have snapped not so much.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
If “the left”—so much as that term means anything anymore—and those who seem to defend that word, would find some principles, promote and defend their principles away from the relativism and post-modernism they are accustomed to, the entirety of the political spectrum would be healthier.

The same could be said about "the right".

I think the bigger problem is not about Left or Right. It's about honesty.

If we were honest in our conversations and how we receive information, we would have much more productive outcomes.

If we were honest, we would not read disingenuous posts such as yours that do nothing more than perpetuate ignorance.

Is that a principle I see in the midst of that post-modernist mosh mash? No, it’s just a fake principle, wielded haphazardly and only to seek advantage over your enemies, after which it is thrown back to the winds of your power-hunger and feelings.

See. More dishonesty.

You say we need to be principled and when one stands up for one or articulates it, you claim it to be fake and continue to assume the motive behind stating that principle to be nefarious is some manner.

I don't think you could have illustrated my point any better. We cannot have decent conversations until people like yourself are honest enough to admit that it doesn't matter what is said to you. You have your agenda and will do whatever it takes to perpetuate it. Even claiming to want one thing and then denouncing it when you get it.

It's like a high maintenance woman that is never satisfied, even when she is given the everything she wants.

We get to watch in real time as you hold a principle to others you refuse to hold to yourself. Good show.

What principle did I hold others to that I have refused to hold myself to? Am I not being honest? Can you quote the post in which I refused to hold myself to that standard, please?

You, on the other hand, are not. You asked for something and when it is given to you, you say it's not good enough.

You point fingers at people saying they need to show principles and follow that up by showing your lack in principles.

You do know what they say about hypocrisy being a character trait, don't you? I think you have become a fine example of that saying.

I’ve conversed with you enough to know that honesty is your very last concern. That you pull it out now when challenged is, well, dishonest.

So no quote to back up your assertions, huh? How unsurprising and dishonest of you.

As usual LesMis, your arguments boil-down to being nothing more than "I know you are but what am I"-style of childishness and you cannot backup your claims whatsoever.

That being said, I stand by my original assertion. People need to stop being dishonest and your posts are a great example why. You only put yourself in positions of hypocrisy when you lack the ability and willingness to engage people honestly and, ironically, with a bit or principle.

There is a term used in the area where I grew up for the type of people I am describing and I think it fits nicely to describe your posts.

That term is chicken#.

I am engaging with you and others honestly. The problem I see with your assertions is that you either do not know what honesty is, or that you claim to be honest at precisely the time it benefits you most. I think that’s the problem with most relativists.

And as I have shown, you were not being honest. You asked for something and when it was given to you, you claim it was fake and use assumptions as a basis for your argument.

You asked for something you were not honestly looking to receive.

Oh well. Again, when hypocrisy becomes a character trait...

originally posted by: strongfp

originally posted by: rexsblues
Socialists finally have their target audience, a desperate populace with short attention spans and no reference or comprehension of what it is they're really asking for.

You mean like how millions blindly voted for trump with false promises?

Make no mistake. Trump voters were offering a resounding referendum on the Democrats and who they put forward as their “best” candidate. Nothing more, nothing less. ANY other candidate besides HRC would have soundly defeated Trump, regardless of gender, race, or any other identities. HRC = most flawed candidate in US history and our current POTUS is the irrefutable evidence.

a reply to: Lab4Us

I understand that. And it makes sense. But the person I was replying to clearly has a biased opinion on how people of the supposed left are like dumb idiot lemmings who can't think for themselves.
It goes both ways if you want to look at it that way.
Either way, the hate on left bandwagon is getting old. Isn't it time for the internet to move into a new target by now.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
If “the left”—so much as that term means anything anymore—and those who seem to defend that word, would find some principles, promote and defend their principles away from the relativism and post-modernism they are accustomed to, the entirety of the political spectrum would be healthier.

The same could be said about "the right".

I think the bigger problem is not about Left or Right. It's about honesty.

If we were honest in our conversations and how we receive information, we would have much more productive outcomes.

If we were honest, we would not read disingenuous posts such as yours that do nothing more than perpetuate ignorance.

Is that a principle I see in the midst of that post-modernist mosh mash? No, it’s just a fake principle, wielded haphazardly and only to seek advantage over your enemies, after which it is thrown back to the winds of your power-hunger and feelings.

See. More dishonesty.

You say we need to be principled and when one stands up for one or articulates it, you claim it to be fake and continue to assume the motive behind stating that principle to be nefarious is some manner.

I don't think you could have illustrated my point any better. We cannot have decent conversations until people like yourself are honest enough to admit that it doesn't matter what is said to you. You have your agenda and will do whatever it takes to perpetuate it. Even claiming to want one thing and then denouncing it when you get it.

It's like a high maintenance woman that is never satisfied, even when she is given the everything she wants.

We get to watch in real time as you hold a principle to others you refuse to hold to yourself. Good show.

What principle did I hold others to that I have refused to hold myself to? Am I not being honest? Can you quote the post in which I refused to hold myself to that standard, please?

You, on the other hand, are not. You asked for something and when it is given to you, you say it's not good enough.

You point fingers at people saying they need to show principles and follow that up by showing your lack in principles.

You do know what they say about hypocrisy being a character trait, don't you? I think you have become a fine example of that saying.

I’ve conversed with you enough to know that honesty is your very last concern. That you pull it out now when challenged is, well, dishonest.

So no quote to back up your assertions, huh? How unsurprising and dishonest of you.

As usual LesMis, your arguments boil-down to being nothing more than "I know you are but what am I"-style of childishness and you cannot backup your claims whatsoever.

That being said, I stand by my original assertion. People need to stop being dishonest and your posts are a great example why. You only put yourself in positions of hypocrisy when you lack the ability and willingness to engage people honestly and, ironically, with a bit or principle.

There is a term used in the area where I grew up for the type of people I am describing and I think it fits nicely to describe your posts.

That term is chicken#.

I am engaging with you and others honestly. The problem I see with your assertions is that you either do not know what honesty is, or that you claim to be honest at precisely the time it benefits you most. I think that’s the problem with most relativists.

And as I have shown, you were not being honest. You asked for something and when it was given to you, you claim it was fake and use assumptions as a basis for your argument.

You asked for something you were not honestly looking to receive.

Oh well. Again, when hypocrisy becomes a character trait...

I never asked for something, which is a lie. You have not shown anything, which is another lie.

originally posted by: Painterz
There is no 'left' in American politics.

This. On the communism-anarchy axis America is very much a right-of-center republic by definition. Progressivism and liberalism are not inherently leftist ideologies and we are doing them a disservice by associating them as such. By claiming they are "left" they are asking to change the very definition of freedom this country is built upon. Given the statistical young age of democrats and the dunning-kruger effect I doubt most of them realize it (or care).

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I never asked for something

My apologies. Ask was not the proper term to use, considering that you are not fluent in all the nuanced ways words are used that may not fit their literal definition.

See. That is honesty.

which is a lie.

Perhaps you do not understand the usage of the term. The use of that term implies you know my intent.

Do you? No. You do not.

You have not shown anything, which is another lie.

Yes, I have. You just dismissed it as being fake.

So you get what you "asked" for and then you simply blow it off.

You are being dishonest, which is a sign of a lack of principles.

Again, it appears the character is informed through hypocrisy.

a reply to: introvert

My apologies. Ask was not the proper term to use, considering that you are not fluent in all the nuanced ways words are used that may not fit their literal definition.

See. That is honesty.

But your original claims was not honesty, not even an honest mistake, but a ploy to seek advantage over your opponents. See that's what I mean about watching in real time as you flout the very principles you claim to hold.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

But your original claims was not honesty, not even an honest mistake, but a ploy to seek advantage over your opponents

Ok. Can you post proof of that intent?

All I did was comment on how you post was disingenuous because the same criteria could be said about the Right.

See that's what I mean about watching in real time as you flout the very principles you claim to hold.

How was I dishonest?

originally posted by: Templeton

originally posted by: Painterz
There is no 'left' in American politics.

This. On the communism-anarchy axis America is very much a right-of-center republic by definition. Progressivism and liberalism are not inherently leftist ideologies and we are doing them a disservice by associating them as such. By claiming they are "left" they are asking to change the very definition of freedom this country is built upon. Given the statistical young age of democrats and the dunning-kruger effect I doubt most of them realize it (or care).

"freedom this country was built upon".....hmm......that particular freedom(s) were from being ruled by a king (absolute power over deeds and actions) and the church (absolute power over moral thought and beliefs), and each could condemn a person to death.....there were no freedoms for women, there were no freedoms for slaves. and, there were only limited freedoms for white Europeans who DID NOT own property.....at that time, (context is everything) the founders of our country were the radical liberals of that day....

a reply to: introvert

There is a term used in the area where I grew up for the type of people I am describing and I think it fits nicely to describe your posts. That term is chicken#.

Is that you napoleon dynamite?
do those chickens have large talons?