Just a question regarding some masonic stuff....

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

How is it biased to point out facts? Fact is history says peoples grew into the world we know today without outside interference. That is clearly false and as a supposed student of history why you are being obtuse is beyond me. It is abundantly obvious, undeniably so, that the temple building civilizations that came before knew of and shared knowledge with each other. To suggest anything else is far worse than ignorance, it is deliberate deceit.

originally posted by: BloodStainedGlass
How is it biased to point out facts?

Your author isn't citing facts, he's making things up as I pointed out already. Do I need to tell you again we don't study Eastern philosophy as he claims? Like I said, you don't want answers.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
If it's geometry, then yes, operative stone masons knew of this and taught that type of mathematics to each other. If it's something like free energy from space aliens, then no.

Every time you post this I just want to say that you're obviously not high enough in the ranks yet..

originally posted by: BloodStainedGlass
a reply to: mysterioustranger

Perhaps, I have asked a question that shouldn't be asked. An answer would still be very nice.

Not at all... But much of your post is singular, off center and based on conjecture.

I can only suggest researching FreeMasonry itself, not inuendo, not YouTube, not conspiracy sites, but the foundations of the order.

Then you can direct the inaccuracies and conflicts of much of the suppositions... true and false.

I'd suggest seeking how one becomes one, why, what it means... Then search out the history of the order.

At that point.. try to discern what is wild speculation, theory, conjecture, plain false, rumor, gossip and truth.

This is what I recommend on behalf of the Order.

originally posted by: SurveyTheSurveyors
a reply to: BloodStainedGlass

Freemasons, and in depth masonry has always been of great interest to me.

I am originally from Detroit, which inhabits a Masonic Temple. A very large building with many theatres, venues, offices, rooms and areas to this day in which I can't identify. The temple itself is not very lively, but it does however have events which periodically take place there. Some music shows, lectures, etc. During one of these events, my uncle was in charge of setting up the sound equipment such as: The microphones, speakers, sound boards etc. and also run the system during the event. Well, I helped him and his union carry in, carry out, and set up the equipment a few days prior to the scheduled event in a nearly vacant Temple, so we thought. After finishing the event and disassembling all of the equipment at around midnight, we decided to take a tour which we were told not to and stay in designated areas, but no ones here right? So why not. We explored all base levels, the architecture is STUNNING, well thought out, designed with great symmetry and filled with free masonry ideology. During our exploration most if not all doors were locked, which wasn't surprising, but of course you try to open each one in hopes it is not right? Eventually we stumbled upon the door which lead up many flights of stairs to presumably the top of the temple. As we ascended we started to hear faint voices, note that the place is known to be haunted, so we figured could this be our first paranormal experience? I don't recall which floor we made it to, but I felt like we walked up about 4-5 flights of stairs before we started to hear voices, and continued onward till they got louder, still ineligible but at this point identified as human. We stopped at one of the floors we thought the voices were coming from, felt the door handle, it was unlocked and proceeded. Amongst the long hall way were many doors lining the wall, which I assumed to be lounges or offices? Closer to the end there was a room that had visible light emitting. After entering the hall way following my uncle, the door shut with a thud behind me and a few seconds after the lights whether they were candle or electronic, went out and the voices stopped. We exited as quickly as we entered and ended the tour on that note, and finished up clearing out all the equipment and ended our night on an interesting page.


Weird experience to say the least, interesting story I thought I would share with you! Highly recommend visiting a Temple if you ever get the chance, the vibe is truly unique and the buildings are very mysterious!


-StS

I too am in Metro Detroit.

I was honestly more interested in the magnificent and enigmatic architecture throughout the world. Just along the equator alone sit three temples with some eerily similar traits. I was trying to see if anyone knew more about the link between freemasonry and very old temples. I don't expect anyone to reveal secrets at all, but if someone could affirm that an early group of stone masons or a precursor group had a hand in these constructions....That is the angle I am interested in. This guy makes the claims but I wanted to try to get it from the horses mouth or something like that. The temple builders are said to have grown independently of one another but this cannot be simply because a lot of these temples are thousands of miles apart and share more than coincidental similarities. It would make so much more sense if there were lines of communication between these peoples. Sharing of knowledge was clearly going on in those days.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I was more interested in the architecture and anything you might know relating it to masonry in any form or fashion. Philosophy is one thing but not the point of this thread. I don't know how the conversation got to where it did but I most certainly do want answers. Even if the answer is that you don't know. I want to know about the oldest stone masons you can tell me about. The order must certainly be quite old... is it possible that there may be truth in his research regarding the beautiful stone works? Maybe I should have been more clear with my original phrasing of the question.

originally posted by: mysterioustranger


I'd suggest seeking how one becomes one, why, what it means... Then search out the history of the order.

At that point.. try to discern what is wild speculation, theory, conjecture, plain false, rumor, gossip and truth.

This is what I recommend on behalf of the Order.

Roger that good buddy, loud and clear. It's a club and I ain't in it.

a reply to: BloodStainedGlass

If you really want to know what freemasonry is all about, you could just ask straight forward questions. You can also buy a copy of the handbook online, then you can read through all of the ritual and theatre. There is a lot of middle eastern symbology and lore incorporated into both the masons and the shriners. But it is really nothing more than a fancy gentleman’s club that attracts the type of people who fancy themselves a gentleman.

There are lots of connections in the literature to other groups, like the templars, the Bavarian illuminati, the nazi thule society, and plenty more. Clubs like these were popular all the way back to greek and even Sumerian culture. But, it is simple enough to say that these are different groups who had members who also belonged to other groups and clubs. freemasonry was always intended to be a gentlemans fraternity. It’s the groups you’ve never heard of that you should be worried about.

If i had to sum up what freemasonry is nowadays, it is a fraternity that takes good men and makes them better. It teaches an individual about character and civic duty and walking an upright path. Lot’s of fundraising, award ceremonies, and theatre. Events and meetings are sometimes big, sometimes small. Lot’s of connections are made, and you have local people on hand that you know you can trust.


The story of Hiram Abiff is as good a place to start as any.

It depends on if you are talking about the Masons or the Masons. Because there are two organizations, both of whom use the same logo of the compass that everyone knows. The main difference is that one group is joined by men who request information about the organization from an already active mason. They,join and report positive feedback and squash conspiracy theories that they run the world and simply put, it is a good place for male camaraderie and business networking It is not a religion and has no political or spiritual agenda. Easiest way to confirm you have a column A Mason if they work within a system of initiation through 32 or 33 degrees of hierarchy within their lodges and with other Masons worldwide too.

Then you have column B Masons. They are exponentially outnumbered by column A's population but according to the grapevine this is an extremely select group of the men who run the world. This has been, over the last couple centuries, a well known conspiracy theory but now it is hard to call it something so unsure. It is likely true and enough has been confirmed by Masonic literature meant to be secret and inaccessible information for the common man that leaked quite a ways back and afterwards, Pike took to paper creating just about thee most relevant compositions to this day regarding masonry from the inside which solidified this and even gave many methods he suggests would be used over the years to achieve the goal they strive for. This included the admission that column A Masons are by design a huge means club meant to be the facade behind which their Masons can operate without the public being so skeptical or knowing that the true organization is a secret society that in some way or another, has ties with 90% of all the others that make up the web of entities that people have grouped together and labeled with the broad term, Illuminati.

This kind of Mason is both known of by conspiracy theorists but simultaneously they are totally ignorant of the true nature and belief system of these Masons. This kind of Masonry is where you find what people always point out are higher degrees of initiation than are supposed to exist, 34-plus degree masons. This is no means club for networking. They got passed the need for that ages ago. This is a forum to discuss the hidden influence that is working to bring about a system they refer to with a few key terms but which is basically NOW meets revelation. It is also just as much a spiritual place and this is where we find the most important piece of knowledge on earth as far as explaining who they are, how they kill us 99%ers by the millions without batting an eye, why they use the symbols they do and how they gave fake meanings to symbols for the other masons to spread so we wouldn't know the communications they passed in public, it explains why they hate us and why they are ok with corralling us into slave colonies with surveilled restriction while they have free reign of the earth in their Utopian fantasy. It explains why we are at odds with Muslim ideology, at war lately, basically it explains everything about what life truly is but to this day I have never met another person who knew this secret other than real 34+ masons. Well, i can't do it justice but their most sacred belief that explains everything,that has happened on earth for thousands of years can be learned here but u must watch from 00:00 to about 23:00 to understand the secret. Ill let a video made by a real mason tell you in an eloquent way that is to the point and well scripted. Here, masonrys most core central belief and thee most important thing u will ever learn that is related to conspiracy theory and the so called "illuminati" or hidden hand or puppet masters of the world, etc. They call it the Secret of the Widows Son.

youtu.be...

originally posted by: NarcolepticBuddha
Every time you post this I just want to say that you're obviously not high enough in the ranks yet..

I'm not, only medical MJ is allowed in NJ.

originally posted by: BloodStainedGlass
I was more interested in the architecture and anything you might know relating it to masonry in any form or fashion.

Masonic teachings revolve around Greco-Roman architecture.

Philosophy is one thing but not the point of this thread. I don't know how the conversation got to where it did...

Because you brought up the middle path.

I want to know about the oldest stone masons you can tell me about.

The oldest reference to Operative Masons is in the Regius Manuscript which references a loge in the 10th century.

a reply to: BloodStainedGlass

I myself long ago looked how to join, what it takes and why, and the ultimate goal of Freemasonry.

Same with Oddfellows, Hibernians, Shriners and dozens of like orders and clubs like Knights of Columbus Eagles etc etc.

I will say the females (mother, grandmother's, aunts etc) in my family are/were all Order of the Eastern Star.. the female offshoot of Freemasonry, and are buried in a Masonic Cemetery.

Anyone should ask a member or contact a lodge in any of the above mentioned.

Thanks

originally posted by: BloodStainedGlass
He gets into the connection with the freemasons and basically says that they(freemasons) are the vehicle for an ancient knowledge which is why the church went from hiring them for the building of gothic cathedrals to wanting them eliminated as heretics.

I would not say that Freemasons are keepers of "ancient knowledge", but rather of "ancient wisdom". Knowledge implies that we have tangible 'facts' that we keep secret. However, we are 'speculative' by nature, and by definition, 'speculative' implies a way of thinking rather than possessing tangible facts or knowledge.

So yes, we do possess ancient wisdom. This ancient wisdom, for example (and this is just one example), presents a method whereby we can come to gain knowledge without the limitations of religious or social oppression, but via free and unopposed individual and collective research of all things. In the words of Descartes : “If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things.”

Masonry makes us question everything that we believe (another reason the Church hates us) in order to discover the truth. For it is only once we have questioned everything, yet still believe, that we can call our belief 'faith', because only after exhaustive questioning, can we remove all doubt from a belief (a requirement of faith).

Once we have faith, we have hope, and once we have hope, we naturally start living in service of others, giving our life meaning. This is a 'secret' of Masonry, which to my mind, may be considered ancient wisdom (but certainly not ancient 'knowledge')

Ive seen the khaibit man. There is no answers.

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
a reply to: BloodStainedGlass

I myself long ago looked how to join, what it takes and why, and the ultimate goal of Freemasonry.

2 Be 1 ask 1. But get the whole e2nd and 33rd degree being the highest it will only make you look like that special kid nobody wanted to hang out with. The Ultimate goal of Masonry is easily obtained by visiting any states grand lodge site.

Same with Oddfellows, Hibernians, Shriners and dozens of like orders and clubs like Knights of Columbus Eagles etc etc.
I can speak on Knights of Columbus because I am both a Mason and KofC. KofC goal is for laymen of the Catholic Church to do more for the Church and community it also wants to sell it's members life insurance. So it's a business. Shriners well in order to be one of those you got to be a 3rd degree mason. Their goal is to have fun and raise money for the hospitals.

I will say the females (mother, grandmother's, aunts etc) in my family are/were all Order of the Eastern Star.. the female offshoot of Freemasonry, and are buried in a Masonic Cemetery.

Anyone should ask a member or contact a lodge in any of the above mentioned.

Thanks

originally posted by: BloodStainedGlass
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

No deep end diving with this one. His account of the masons "secrets" is basically understanding the duality of the universe. The joining of the negative and positive to create something new. Attaining the balance through the middle path, etc...


Interesting stuff, give it a look I insist.

Freemasons couldn't hang out in Christianity if that was the case.

“Master, we would that thou shouldest do for us that we desire.

And he said unto them, What would ye I should do for you?

And they said to him, Grant unto us, that we may sit, one at thy right hand, and the other at thy left hand in thy glory.

But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask. Can ye drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and be baptized with the baptism that I shall be baptized with?

And they said unto him, We can. But Jesus said unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of the cup that I shall drink of, and be baptized with the baptism wherewith I shall be baptized:

But to sit at my right hand and at my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared."

a reply to: BloodStainedGlass

By the way the answer to all your questions I am telling you is in the video I posted above if you are willing to watch twenty minutes of video. If you believe the legend, and I feel that it is absolutely true in some way no matter how much or how little you want to believe the religious implications, but I do believe that we are in a world with two species of what we refer to as human no matter which species a person traces his or her line back to but I do believe that the world was populated by both man and a hybrid as we are told in the masons own legend of the widows son, the bible, Greek and Roman mythology, Egyptian mythology, Chinese creation legends, native American lore, etc.