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Free speech or Censorship

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posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 01:30 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Kurokage




Introvert is right in what he is saying. Free speech does not exist in the way you are trying to say it does. You've argued that words can't hurt and say the scum of this world are allowed a voice. You live in a fantasy world.
The only free speech you have is in your own home in todays society.


That's right, we don't have free speech in today's society because folks like yourself would rob people of their fundamental human rights, simply because you do not like what comes out of their mouths.


Yes because the freedom of speech that you claim exists does not exit as has been pointed out to you by many members previously.




posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 01:30 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: introvert




No. It does not exist.


Try it. You can say whatever you want when you are alone. Give it a shot. Your speech is free. But then add a censor to the mix and try again.


Because I have a sign outside my house saying, "Censors needed. Apply within."

Not arguing. Making a funny.



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 01:32 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Kurokage




Speaking in public is where that freedom is curtailed, so free speech isn't really free.


Free speech is free until you coerce, threaten, or punish others for speaking.


So it's not free, is it. your own statement proves that.



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 01:38 PM
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a reply to: Kurokage




Yes because the freedom of speech that you claim exists does not exit as has been pointed out to you by many members previously.



And as I pointed out, it exists before you steal it from others, just like freedom exists before you slap chains on a person.
edit on 17-4-2018 by LesMisanthrope because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 01:42 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: introvert




No. It does not exist.


Try it. You can say whatever you want when you are alone. Give it a shot. Your speech is free. But then add a censor to the mix and try again.


Ok, speech is free when you are talking to yourself.


As for it's application in the rest of our interactions, it is not.



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 01:44 PM
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a reply to: introvert




Ok, speech is free when you are talking to yourself.

As for it's application in the rest of our interactions, it is not.


Speech is also free when you are speaking to someone who believes in free speech. It isn't free when you talk to someone who believes in censorship.



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 01:50 PM
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a reply to: Incandescent




what if somebody in the US wants to do a speaking tour of universities about becoming jihadists


Are these the same Universities that have ROTC recruiting and brainwashing for the MIC?

hahahahaha



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 01:50 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope


Freedom in pretty much any form is just a mirage or thought experiment, we belong to a social, cultural, religious or even political group from day one so have restrictions applied to us by that group, so certain freedoms are allowed but only to a point. A child has restriction put upon them from their family, school or peers, and they continue through to adulthood one way or another.



edit on 17-4-2018 by Kurokage because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 02:06 PM
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a reply to: Kurokage




Freedom in pretty much any form is just a mirage or thought experiment, we belong to a social, cultural, religious or even political group from day one so have restrictions applied to us by that group, so certain freedoms are allowed but only to a point. A child has restriction put upon them from their family, school or peers, and they continue through to adulthood one way or another.


Yes, freedom exists until you take it away. And as for speech, censors use coercion, threat and punishment to restrict this most fundamental freedom, and thus the thoughts and consciences of those who wish to speak.



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 02:08 PM
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a reply to: nightbringr



LesMisanthrope stated...
On the other hand, there was an artist in Finland who made an art piece which contained child porn, which she readily found on the internet. The piece was meant to bring awareness to the availability of child pornography. Her show was cancelled and the work confiscated by Finnish authorities. I disagree with that decision.


Read the above carefully - where does it state that he is friends with the artist. You call the artist reprehensible without having viewed it and paint the OP with the same brush. You never even bothered to ask for a source to his claim about the Finnish incident before you started attacking.

This is exactly what he is talking about, images that people paint in their heads from words.



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 02:12 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Kurokage




Freedom in pretty much any form is just a mirage or thought experiment, we belong to a social, cultural, religious or even political group from day one so have restrictions applied to us by that group, so certain freedoms are allowed but only to a point. A child has restriction put upon them from their family, school or peers, and they continue through to adulthood one way or another.


Yes, freedom exists until you take it away. And as for speech, censors use coercion, threat and punishment to restrict this most fundamental freedom, and thus the thoughts and consciences of those who wish to speak.


Well whatcha going to do? Human nature. We've been working on it for some time.




posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 02:18 PM
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a reply to: intrepid




Well whatcha going to do? Human nature. We've been working on it for some time.


The only thing I can do: refuse to censor anyone, and to defend the principles of liberty, rights and freedoms from those who would take them away.

I suspect in time people will overcome their fear of speech. It's getting better. Hell, Britain had blasphemy laws up until 2008.



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 02:41 PM
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a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

I went back and read it, you are correct, she never stated this 'artist' was a friend.

My original point still stand and is thus: The OP stated that ALL censorship is wrong. I agreed with one caveat, child porn. Since censorship by definition included pictures and drawings as well as written and spoken word, it is a valid point.

Yet she is defending those peoples rights to THAT disgusting material. THAT is the problem I have. She keeps saying odd things like it isn't speech so it's not the same, or something of the sort, I can't really understand where she is going there.

I am a libertarian, so I fully believe in the right of freedom of speech and an 99.99% anti-censorship. The .01 that IS for censorship covers the material most harmful to minors the OP seems to think people should be allowed.


edit on 17-4-2018 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 02:50 PM
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a reply to: nightbringr




Yet she is defending those peoples rights to THAT disgusting material. THAT is the problem I have. She keeps saying odd things like it isn't speech so it's not the same, or something of the sort, I can't really understand where she is going there.


It's simple. Child pornography is harmful, illegal contraband, not an example free speech. This is how the Supreme court of the United States sees it as well. On the other hand, the Supreme court has ruled that depictions of child porn, likely drawn child porn containing no actual children, is protected under the first amendment. Do you see the difference between real child porn and depictions of child porn?

Would you, unlike the Supreme Court of the United States, censor depictions of child porn?



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 02:52 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: nightbringr




Yet she is defending those peoples rights to THAT disgusting material. THAT is the problem I have. She keeps saying odd things like it isn't speech so it's not the same, or something of the sort, I can't really understand where she is going there.


It's simple. Child pornography is harmful, illegal contraband, not an example free speech.

Therefore it is censored. Do you disagree with that?



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 02:57 PM
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originally posted by: nightbringr

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: nightbringr




Yet she is defending those peoples rights to THAT disgusting material. THAT is the problem I have. She keeps saying odd things like it isn't speech so it's not the same, or something of the sort, I can't really understand where she is going there.


It's simple. Child pornography is harmful, illegal contraband, not an example free speech.

Therefore it is censored. Do you disagree with that?


Of course it is censored, I’m arguing whether it is right or wrong to do so.



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 03:01 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: nightbringr

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: nightbringr




Yet she is defending those peoples rights to THAT disgusting material. THAT is the problem I have. She keeps saying odd things like it isn't speech so it's not the same, or something of the sort, I can't really understand where she is going there.


It's simple. Child pornography is harmful, illegal contraband, not an example free speech.

Therefore it is censored. Do you disagree with that?


Of course it is censored, I’m arguing whether it is right or wrong to do so.

And I'm asking you point blank. Do you agree with the censorship of that material? Stop dancing around the issue and show your true colors.



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 03:03 PM
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a reply to: nightbringr




And I'm asking you point blank. Do you agree with the censorship of that material? Stop dancing around the issue and show your true colors.


I do not agree with censorship of any material.



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 03:05 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: nightbringr




And I'm asking you point blank. Do you agree with the censorship of that material? Stop dancing around the issue and show your true colors.


I do not agree with censorship of any material.
And there we have it.



posted on Apr, 17 2018 @ 03:06 PM
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a reply to: nightbringr




And there we have it.


And?




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