Truth and Reconciliation in America

a reply to: TonyS

If it all comes apart, the people with the food are going to survive easier than the people without. I suppose you can eat Google?

a reply to: zosimov

It is foolish to assume we can just "move on" from genocide and leave it unacknowledged.

It has been acknowledged over and over and over again. You must not be up on the current liberal classroom curriculum. As far as moving on? I have no problem. I love my country and when you say you have that 'slight' bit of pride I actually pity you. You focus on negativity and the past...things that can't be changed.

Every country on the globe has dark parts of their history. There is no part of human history without stains...even the best parts of history are going to have their dark parts just like every human heart has a dark part.

You need to change your world view and attitude and stop the self-flagellation. It isn't healthy nor is it productive.

a reply to: Metallicus

It's been acknowledged? So the US government has declared the "Indian Campain" a genocide yet?

You are projecting hatred on me. I have no hatred and, as most people bent on their own interpretation, you took my words out of context.

I was referring to how I feel when I see our flag, and I clarified on why a little later on in the OP.

I love my country as I said numerous times.

a reply to: InvisibleLady

Thank you for the effort you put in to this thoughtful response! It is such a difficult issue, but I think you summed up the complexity so well.

To put it delicately NOOO!!!

Here's why;

It automatically becomes a racial issue by default. Whites were the traditional majority therefore whatever wrong was done is placed on them. This will also ignore the good that has been done, the sacrifices made and the advantages modern descendants of historical victims have acquired by living within the greater society.

It also fails to address the wrongs done by the various groups claiming victim status by putting them on a moral pedestal that relinquishes them from any wrongdoing.

It will inevitably become a racially-charged fight over who did what to whom leading to nowhere but hate, something I don't think most people really want. Much of what you propose has already been done through the educational system, especially in Universities from which we see the results. More division, more hate, more victim mentality.
No.
Just no.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Would you argue no country should have to admit to genocide? Or only that America shouldn't because it might cause more problems?

I am of the mind that if other countries or groups have had to be accountable for their past genocides, the US government should also consider taking official accountability.

I don't think it would go down the way you envision. In my mind, the process would be more about saying what everyone already knows by making it official, and then working in the small ways I mentioned to right current wrongs.

Admitting to the past wrongs done by past perpetrators in the right way should have no bearing on how anyone does or does not feel victimized today. It is actually not even more than a gesture. But one I think would be very, very meaningful for the people who need it most.

a reply to: zosimov

I am of the mind that if other countries or groups have had to be accountable for their past genocides, the US government should also consider taking official accountability.

This is where I think you're wrong. No one is still alive from that time...who do you plan to blame? Why do you need to blame? What difference does it make now?

It just foments anger and divisiveness as is evidenced here on this very OP.

a reply to: zosimov

The people who needed it most were the ones who were directly victimized.

And these things are so far in the past that cannot happen. And to be perfectly fair, let's just look at reparations. What do you do? Who gets the gesture? What if we find out that my husband does have the African-American DNA rumored to maybe be a part of his heritage along with the Native American? He looks like a straight-up white male. Would be get reparations because part of his ancestry was hypothetically victimized? Would I, his wife, have to pay him?

a reply to: Metallicus

How would it hurt you if our government followed in the footsteps of countries such as Germany and admitted to genocide?

How would that hurt anyone? Everyone already knows the stories, as has been mentioned, so how would it hurt to officially acknowledge and apologize? And do you have the slightest hope that that apology might be heard and believed now, especially now, so long after, by people who carry a lot of trauma and used as a means to heal the community, even slightly? I do, which is why I wrote this. If you are angry, that is on you.

a reply to: ketsuko

Why mention reparations? I have explicitely mentioned the government (NOT you or I) visiting the impovershed reservations/ghettos which are still suffering from the effects of enslavement and the devistation of culture and near extinction of communities and working with community leaders to right ongoing injustices. It wouldn't hurt any family, even the poor families who are not being helped can benefit from a unified and more dynamic populace.

a reply to: zosimov

How would it hurt you if our government followed in the footsteps of countries such as Germany and admitted to genocide?

And I still say how does it help anything?

Again, no part of human history is without a blemish. We are humans and we make mistakes. There sure are a lot more atrocities in the world that need to be admitted to if we use your logic...probably 1,000s at least.

It serves no purpose.

a reply to: zosimov

Because you are defining reparations.

Where does the government get its money? From you and me. It's called taxes, but don't you think it would be a bit gauche for us to ask the victims to pay for their own reparations?

a reply to: ketsuko

I'd say that people who care would be happy to meet with a special committee regarding the local problems facing their communities, regardless of how the officials are paid.

a reply to: zosimov

It's a matter of how long ago these injustices happened. South Africa had T&R because they were transitioning directly from Apartheid to democracy. There were people alive who committed racially-charged acts, acts well within living memory. Dragging up slavery in the US is over 150 years ago. The Japanese internment was dealt with 20 years ago. The worst incidents happened long ago and no one is alive that caused them or witnessed them.

Its like stirring up a hornet's nest with no plan on how to deal with angry hornets.

originally posted by: zosimov
a reply to: ketsuko

I'd say that people who care would be happy to meet with a special committee regarding the local problems facing their communities, regardless of how the officials are paid.

Well of course they would!

Again, what do you think reparations are all about? Taking from group A - in this case, the ones designated as the victimizers (US tax payers who are part of that group) - to give to group B to fix the problems caused by that long ago victimizing.

The problem is that it will never be enough.

It's like saying that welfare assistance lifts people out of poverty. We also know that's not true. There are too many people content to sit back and collect and complaint they don't get enough.

a reply to: zosimov

Well-written and thought-out OP, Zoz. Impressed.

I see what you are saying. I just don't know how we can even begin to tackle issues from our past when we CURRENTLY have an entire government and associated institutions of CRIMINALS who are running the show! Truly- how can we address the things that you mention, when right now for example, our DOJ is engage in crimes of covering up crimes committed by its highest office holders? And that's JUST the DOJ. We've got the FBI coordinating their top criminal office holders with the DOJ's, there's State Department crimes that have been covered up and more crimes committed in the process of covering them up, we have a Congress who USES OUR TAX DOLLARS to PAY OFF PEOPLE who are sexually harassed and assaulted by our Congressman, there are countless projects within agencies which have NO public or even Congressional oversight, we have the CIA running rogue all over the world with no accountability, we've got our own NSA spying on us....you get the idea.

I think we have to get this crap under control first. Our institutions are corrupted to the core, and the citizenry has got to open their eyes.

Not to mention the divided citizenry, brought to us by our criminal politicians who are supposed to be trusted servants. They WANT us fighting each other and we are performing PERFECTLY for them.

I think we're screwed.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

I think, whether you like it or not, there is still a lot of trauma and hurt among certain communities. It is there whether we address it or not. I think addressing it would be in all of our benefit.

All this means is that our government holds itself accountable and admits to the actions (some as recent as the 1960s or probably even more) it had perpetrated that went completely against its ideals.

a reply to: zosimov

Really?

I still carry a lot of trauma and hurt from having been terribly bullied in 3rd grade. I left that school year with suicidal thoughts it was that bad.

When do I get my acknowledgment from all involved that I was terribly victimized and when will people sit down with me to make it right?

Oh, that's right. Never.

a reply to: KansasGirl

I totally agree with your entire post. Thank you for the provocative comment- there is so much which needs to be addressed today, with our current "leadership," (NOT talking Trump here!) it's so hard to know where to start.

I agree with your assessment of the awful current political landscape. I really did not even think this would be a really contentious issue- this has nothing to do with any living person, but more of an attempt to officially address some tragic times in our collective history.

But I can see where I got defensive in some of my responses, and I can understand the point people are trying to make about the harm in digging up the past. I just think that the past will always haunt us until we put it to rest.

a reply to: ketsuko

I do feel that individual vs governmentally sanctioned/perpetrated crimes are different.
I am addressing the latter because I have faith in our country's values and think there is way too much disparity between our values and how they have been enforced.

We can move forward in a more just way and acknowledge how far we've come in the process, as we have truly come far!