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Conservatives and Liberals... And Progressivism

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posted on Apr, 15 2018 @ 11:21 PM
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a reply to: Teikiatsu

And what percent of Americans were starving to death in the street in that time period???


What percentage are today.???


The problem isn’t that the government helps people or that some percentage schemes the system for a couple gs a year..


The problem is that only 40% of every tax dollar spent on wellfare , makes it to the actual recipients..

If that..

For example they spent however many tens of millions of dollars setting up a drug test for food stamps.. to save 15,000 a year in drug addicts kicked off foodstamps.. when if anyone needs free food. It’s a drug addict. Lol..

The problem is that we spend all this time worried about intangibles like “principle” or “personal responsibility “ instead of just fixing the f’n problem..

Ain’t nothing wrong with setting the bar low..

You help people who are below the minimum level of survival. To that point and Then that’s it..

The worst studio apt. Worst food. Worst transportation, thrift store cloths. Cheap phone. And utilities..




posted on Apr, 16 2018 @ 12:56 AM
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Freedom to screw the American worker is not the kind of freedom I'm interested in. George Carlin said it best, there's a reason why the American people are getting effed by their politicians:



I like Marx's criticism of laissez-faire capitalism. You have to be a complete moron not to see Marx is making several good points about the problems with laissez-faire capitalism:



Profit equals theft!!!

Flag, Freedom, Patriotism, WHOO HOO!! I just can't take the fandom propaganda. Everything they talk about in politics has absolutely NOTHING to do with my life. I just tune it all out. I'M DONE WITH POLITICS.

You want know what left means? You want to know what Democrat means? Here are the words from FDR from 1936 Democrat convention. Read this 10 times so they sink in and before you criticize liberal democrats with fandom propaganda:



"An old English judge once said: 'Necessitous men are not free men.' Liberty requires opportunity to make a living - a living decent according to the standard of the time, a living which gives man not only enough to live by, but something to live for.

For too many of us the political equality we once had won was meaningless in the face of economic inequality. A small group had concentrated into their own hands an almost complete control over other people's property, other people's money, other people's labor - other people's lives. For too many of us life was no longer free; liberty no longer real; men could no longer follow the pursuit of happiness.

Against economic tyranny such as this, the American citizen could appeal only to the organized power of government."


It's not about liberalism, conservatism or progressivism. Unless a politician is talking about the purchasing power of the median worker's wage it's all a side show to get your attention away from how effed you are being screwed!!!

The American people are a fiddle. And corporations ARE the government:

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power." Benito Mussolini


edit on 16-4-2018 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2018 @ 01:18 AM
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originally posted by: avgguy
The definition of liberalism couldn’t be further from liberals today


And there in lays the rub don't you think? By that definition I could define myself as liberal while at the same time define myself as conservative as considered by that definition of conservative.
Those two different definitions are very similar, they have many nuanced differences that for the most part are nothing more than emphasis depending on time, place and conditions.



posted on Apr, 16 2018 @ 08:17 AM
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a reply to: Lumenari

Beautifully accurate OP.



So if you are arguing that Obama good, Bush bad, Clinton good? They are all Progressives. Try to point out a particular sleezeball on one side of the isle so your side can look better? Surprise... they are mostly Progressives anyways... there are no real "sides" anymore, Haven't been for a few generations.


Precisely correct. Which is why voting is, anymore, utterly useless except to provide the Progressive winner claim to having been legitimately elected, i.e., political capital.

And when you merge Progressivism with Corporatsim you get Fascism and that leads to perfect tyranny, the fist in the velvet glove.



posted on Apr, 16 2018 @ 10:42 AM
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a reply to: TonyS

What?!?!

Is it the democrats pushing right to work??

Is it the Dems pushing citizens United???

Is it the democrats saying we need to deregulate the big corporations??

Is it the democrats saying we need lower corporate taxs???

Is it the democrats who want to keep min wage, low to help corporate bottom lines.

So the democrats in principle are against all those things , while the gop IN PRINCIPLE are for all those things..

That is like the craziest statement ever..

The right sold out body and soul to the corporate interests decades ago..

I assume just because they beat the democrats to them, but that left the democrats backing big labor.



posted on Apr, 16 2018 @ 10:45 AM
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a reply to: TerryMcGuire

That’s only because your allowing the conservative propaganda whores to define what a modern liberal is...

And that definition doesn’t really even exist..

They point to random college kids and others with no athority or following as proof of who the left “really are” . When that’s been in the logical fallacy list since Athens.. .



posted on Apr, 16 2018 @ 11:45 AM
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What's amazing is how Progressivism has been destroying America for 100 years yet hardly anyone can even define what it is. My favorite author on the subject, James Ostrowski does a good job defining what Progressivism is:

1) A mindset about politics
2) that has no rational basis
3) is utopian
4) favors the use of democratic government force to solve human problems;
5) holds that government force will produce better results than voluntary society and the market;
6) has no theory of costs, or denies and minimizes the cost of it's purported solutions;
7) is a form of self-help therapy against existential angst; and,
8) has no limiting principle and therefore tends towards creeping totalitarianism.

TLDR version: Government force will give better results than voluntary interactions. Equality means equal outcomes instead of equality under law and equality of opportunity.

Good summation OP and I agree both parties have fallen to Progessivism both philosophically and in terms of action. When government makes an appearance of doing something, anything to rationalize their own positions and spreads the use of force in to every possible domain we have Progessivism. If we don't get rid of it, it will surely destroy this country.

Terms like Socialism, Communism and even Fascism are all forms of Progressivism in the end. They are little but useless semantic distinctions describing the color of your enslavement.



posted on Apr, 16 2018 @ 12:51 PM
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a reply to: Asktheanimals

Lol..

JUST citizens United is worse than everything on your list..

Just the war on drugs has been more destructive than anything in your list..



posted on Apr, 16 2018 @ 02:38 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

Did you even read what I wrote?

I didn't mention Dems or Republicans. They are mentioned in the quote from the OP. In truth the Dem/Progressives may act anti-business but in fact they and the Deep State are clients of the Corporations that provide the funding to get them elected. They talk a good fight, but they don't do crap. They push to raise minimum wage, and succeed in a few jurisdictions, but not at the Federal level, least not very often.

I have no more use for the GOP than I do for the Dems. But the OP is right, they're all "Progressives" of one stripe or another.



posted on Apr, 16 2018 @ 03:21 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Teikiatsu

And what percent of Americans were starving to death in the street in that time period???


'Starving to death in the streets'.... reel in the hyperbole, you're embarrassing yourself.




What percentage are today.???


About the same !!!!111elevn!!

Because people that don't want help aren't going to seek out help, and compassionate progressives are always going to find food deserts or school lunches or other issues to try and make us all feel guilty about ourselves.



The problem isn’t that the government helps people or that some percentage schemes the system for a couple gs a year..

The problem is that only 40% of every tax dollar spent on wellfare , makes it to the actual recipients..


No, the problem is the government.



For example they spent however many tens of millions of dollars setting up a drug test for food stamps.. to save 15,000 a year in drug addicts kicked off foodstamps.. when if anyone needs free food. It’s a drug addict. Lol..

The problem is that we spend all this time worried about intangibles like “principle” or “personal responsibility “ instead of just fixing the f’n problem..

Ain’t nothing wrong with setting the bar low..


I've got a fix: no more food stamps from the federal government. That's not their job.



You help people who are below the minimum level of survival. To that point and Then that’s it..

The worst studio apt. Worst food. Worst transportation, thrift store cloths. Cheap phone. And utilities..


Oddly, when you get the government out of the way the cost of living will go down. Yes, life is hard, no one said otherwise. But you don't solve the problem by punishing success to subsidize failure.

Feel free to invoke ad hominems with multiple exclamation points. I'm sure that will help.








posted on Apr, 16 2018 @ 03:41 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: TonyS

What?!?!

Is it the democrats pushing right to work??


No, because they are feeding off the teat of Big Union.


Is it the Dems pushing citizens United???


No, because they like restricting free speech to make Big Government stronger. Note: progressive Republicans like McCain didn't like CU either.


Is it the democrats saying we need to deregulate the big corporations??

Is it the democrats saying we need lower corporate taxs???


No, because they are Cronyists who only want their donors to keep their cash. NOTE: Repubs can be cronyist too.


Is it the democrats who want to keep min wage, low to help corporate bottom lines.


No, because they are against making entry-level jobs easier to obtain... especially for minorities.


So the democrats in principle are against all those things ,


Yes, we know. The Democratic party (in principle) is for Big Union, Big Government, squashing free speak, pro-Cronyism, and kill the entry level job market for minorities.


while the gop IN PRINCIPLE are for all those things..


Not 100% of them, but sure we can go with it.

edit on 16-4-2018 by Teikiatsu because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2018 @ 09:50 PM
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a reply to: Asktheanimals

"Terms like Socialism, Communism and even Fascism are all forms of Progressivism in the end. They are little but useless semantic distinctions describing the color of your enslavement."

You see Progressivism differently than I do. Whatever way you define your terms it is clear that past societies that described themselves as communist and fascist were different to each other, even if they might both be tyrannical.



posted on Apr, 16 2018 @ 10:04 PM
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a reply to: Lumenari

This entire thread up to this point shows why the dictionary definitions are less than useful. The real life definitions are fluid and must be defined by the very people who classify themselves as such. It is up to the dictionary to reflect the current usage not up to us to live up to what is written in the dictionary. Language and the meaning of words can change and evolve over time.



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