a reply to: Grambler
I dont know if Obama was a warmonger, duped, or just playing the game; exact same thing with trump.
It deosnt matter; obama is responsible for his regime change wars, just like trump is.
I'm not disagreeing that Obama is responsible. What gets me is people who act as though Assad is a good guy (he's certainly not but he's not the
absolute worst) or like AJ, that Russia is a "white knight" coming to the rescue. Russia's actions are just as self-serving as the US's.
What I do know is that had Obama said, oh I dont know, lets take libya; that we should have worked with ghaddaffi to fight isis, and all the
media on both sides called him out for this, and investigations were launched saying he was in cahoots with libya or their chinese or russian allies,
and that the media coverage was non stop over and over and over and over about this; and obama had had people connected to him spied on over possible
connections to libya, and Bush jr was going around the world telling allies Obama made be a puppet of ghadaffi or putin over this
I would have defended Obama and condemned the war moingering establishment./
I don't know what to tell you my friend. The fact is Russia meddled in the election. It's not even deniable at this point. Did the media make the
Russians meddle in the election? Did they make Trump hire Paul Manafort as his campaign manager? Did somebody make Donald Trump run around talking up
Putin as this was happening, with absolutely no though to the fact that Russian-US relations had just gone from "we're trying to work it out" to in
the toilet because Russia invaded Crimea in violation of agreements they had signed?
Who is it that keeps making Donald Trump and those around him lie about things related to Russia? Whose fault is that at every turn, he and his
associates make themselves look more guilty?
Is the deep state making them lie over and over again?
I just wonder if it were anyone but Trump, who you really want to give the benefit of the doubt, how you would perceive his actions and behavior. If
you would have thought that he looked guilty af.
To me, one of two things is probably true:
1. He got trapped by his ego and public persona early on, denying Russian meddling was even a reality. He could have acknowledged it early on and
shifted the narrative though the endless stream of developments probably would have forced him to fall back to the only way he knows how to act. Now
he's just stuck.
2. He's concerned/suspects/or knows that there was/is things to be found.
You chose not to do that.
You chose to believe and support the anti syria/russia propaganda put forth by the intel agencies.
You chose to believe them about russian hacks without showing proof when they couldnt be bothered to look at the server.
You do not know what you're talking about.
What anti-Syria propaganda do I believe? The gas attack? I'm on the fence, leaning toward it was a last ditch effort by rebels. But it's not in
dispute that Assad is an autocrat, that he was put into power when his autocrat father kicked, that he finally was forced into elections and they were
sham elections. The intel agencies didn't have to tell us about the human rights abuses at a point before it became too unsafe for observers. Have you
done much reading on Assad and the beginnings of what became the civil war in Syria?
As for the "anti-Russian propaganda" — are you denying Russian meddling still?
I don't "You chose to believe them about russian hacks without showing proof when they couldnt be bothered to look at the server" that's just bull#. I
have done probably more reading on the topic than anyone posting on ATS and there's really no doubt that hacking occurred unless there's the
conspiracy to end conspiracies taking place in which case we're all screwed because these people are playing 25D hyperchess and there are hundreds of
conspirators in the government and private sector.
You want to talk propaganda? You're hung up on the "didn't give the FBI the server" thing because it's the go to in the right-wing echo chamber. That
and the stupid transfer speed thing which I have debunked numerous times on ATS.
There's plenty of evidence of hacking and there was more than just the DNC hack. The DCCC got hacked, an RNC server was hacked, Podesta was phished,
Colin Powell was phished and there's evidence from those that links up to the phishing campaign against the DNC which is attested to by independent
sources who have made their data public while Trump supporters stick their fingers in their ears and say, "nah nah nah server server server nah nah
If you want to argue attribution, that's something else but I have a strong feeling that Mueller will bring charges and it'll hopefully put the issue
to rest for you.