L.A. County wants to help build guest houses in backyards — for homeless people

originally posted by: underpass61

originally posted by: verschickter
There had been a similar attempt to push this in germany.

Where the owner of currently unrented homes and even unused floors in private homes, should have been forced to take up refugees, in exchange for rent. Because refugee centers where overfilling.

So you get paid rent but have no say who is living in your own house. Luckily they realized that the public wasn´t brainwashed as much as needed and then Cologne happened.

What a nightmare to see them live down your hard earned house. I know refugee centers, I know most give a # about what belongs to others and to treat it nice. Quiet the contrary.


"live down" = destroy

My good friend's stepmother lives in Germany. When his father passed away the government began looking at her home to force her to house refugees. She's an elderly woman living alone and she had no choice but to sell it and move into a senior living center or she was getting tenants. Now it looks like we are one step away from that here.

Okay, let me say first, I´m not saying this could not have happened but there is this:

Could it be that the real issue was that she needed care, could not afford it and thuss had to sell the home to pay the senior living center? Because that´s what normally happens when you´re old and the kids won´t pay up for the senior home / care center.

The belongings are sold to cover the cost as long as possible. Again, not saying it could not have happened but until now, as far as I know, not one single home was taken away from a german to rent it to refugees.

As much as I am sensitive about this topic, because I made real bad experiences with refugees (mainly the young males), I´m inclined to believe that the story went a little different than what you relayed.

It would have been all over the news, but as I said, not saying it could not have happened. I just know the procedure when you have someone elderly who needs professional care, and the monthly retirement rent is not enough. Especially with elderly women who where at home all their life and didn´t pay rent. They get next to nothing, even worse, if they married after a certain date (1968 i think). Before that, they were covered by their husbands. It was seens as some sort of work relationship between wife and husband. Strange stuff...

a reply to: underpass61

Actually there are not enough of those places in existence and if nobody wants them near them, those who would do well with a little help are locked out. The system actually creates many of the homeless by having no help for the mentally ill, no real long term treatment programs for the poor or any consideration at all for those who fall on hard times and have no family to turn to. Everyone passes the buck and by doing so they create a larger problem.

I remember when the property values argument was what all the racists used as a reason for not wanting people of color in their neighborhood. Times change, but people don't. Hide them away in disgusting neighborhoods or pretend they don't exist is a ready go to answer.

Are property values more important than other humans? In reality I think its more a case of bigotry so profound, it assumes all homeless are scum and people only see what they want to see, so they can without feeling guilty lump them all into one basket.

a reply to: Blaine91555

What is there to do?

I recall when the institutions for the mentally ill were shut down. It was a big campaign because it was simply inhumane and a violation of the rights of the mentally ill to keep them detained against their will.

Now, I am not saying that treatment centers were all well run. In fact, the government funded ones had problems like everything socialized inevitably does. However, we are seeing what happens when the mentally ill have their rights. People on the streets is what it looks like.

So what is the balance?

a reply to: verschickter

She has enough money to live comfortably, after my friend's father passed she was basically alone I think only one relative in Germany and not close by. My friend was born and raised here in the U.S. and visits her at least once a year. He might not be totally clear on her situation, only that the stress and worry that strangers could be living in her house was causing her big problems. It was her decision to move out of fear of what might happen, maybe a baseless fear I don't know. All I know is she was a wreck for a time worrying about it.

a reply to: ketsuko

Partly to stop looking for short term solutions. It's not like you can throw and addict in a shelter and think they will be helped. Only long term treatment works. With the mentally ill, the decisions about when they should be in treatment and supervised would be case by case. Problem is it can't be that way because mental facilities are not available. Many would say yes to the help, but where and when? Waiting lists can be two years long here to get into any help program.

According to the news here in this city of 300,000 we have a steady population of homeless numbers around 3 to 4 thousand. There are maybe 50 who fall into the category of those you see drunk on the streets. Many actually have jobs but housing is so expensive here, they can't qualify for a place to live. There are thousands of invisible homeless here, who would be productive given the chance. Same in most large cities.

a reply to: underpass61

That´s understandable of course. Even the rumor can be enough! This comes from someone who lost a five-figure number in €, because of "nomads". Unpaid rent not included, I´m just talking renovating and biohazzard team costs (!!!!).

I would have done the same, probably.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: underpass61

Actually there are not enough of those places in existence and if nobody wants them near them, those who would do well with a little help are locked out. The system actually creates many of the homeless by having no help for the mentally ill, no real long term treatment programs for the poor or any consideration at all for those who fall on hard times and have no family to turn to. Everyone passes the buck and by doing so they create a larger problem.

I remember when the property values argument was what all the racists used as a reason for not wanting people of color in their neighborhood. Times change, but people don't. Hide them away in disgusting neighborhoods or pretend they don't exist is a ready go to answer.

Are property values more important than other humans? In reality I think its more a case of bigotry so profound, it assumes all homeless are scum and people only see what they want to see, so they can without feeling guilty lump them all into one basket.

Agreed. The liberal bigotry in the upper class neighborhoods here is astounding. Nice of them to shove their homeless off onto us. Otherwise why wouldn't they shoulder their share of the responsibility? Why can't we all watch our property values fall equally? I bet a grand total of ZERO backyard homes are built in Hollywood, Glendale, Bev Hills, Bel Air etc. I'll stop my rant when there's a backyard tiny house episode on Keeping up with the Kardashians.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: underpass61
More insanity from the loony left coast!

L.A. TIMES

In August, the county Board of Supervisors approved a $550,000 pilot program to build a handful of small backyard houses, or upgrade illegally converted garages, for homeowners who agree to host a homeless person or family. Then in February, Bloomberg Philanthropies awarded L.A. a $100,000 Mayor's Challenge grant to study the feasibility of backyard homeless units within the city limits.

What a great way to destroy property values and turn the entire county into a slum. I'd like to propose that they should start with a pilot program. Every single City Councilman and legislator who supports this idea puts a tiny house in their backyard first and see how that works out. Oh, and we the public get to randomly select the tenant!

They never actually address the issue of why people are chronically homeless. The vast majority of homeless living on the streets are mentally unstable and/or severe drug addicts. They are on the streets because they are incapable of taking advantage of the already tons of services and homeless shelters available.

Every homeless person in my community is on the streets because they want to be there, not because there aren't services and shelters available.

It's the same in every city that I have lived in. Homeless people have drink, drug or life skill problems. Simply by the fact they'll cook something to eat and then fall asleep makes them a fire hazard. Not respecting their neighbors and playing loud music in the early hours of the morning will upset the neighbors and get them evicted as well. Not that there is much difference between them and some college students.

They won't want to live next to other homeless people either, especially not in shelters due to fear of attack and theft. The only real solution I can think of is to give them janitor houses in isolated areas, so that they could act as security guards.

a reply to: Blaine91555

Would they?

Many of the mentally ill might say yes to help, but only on their terms. The people interviewed in the article I linked to earlier on all wanted help, but only on their terms. They often refused the help of agencies out their to help them because those places had rules ... rules they weren't willing to live by in order to receive help.

There is a saying about the lunatics running the asylum for a reason.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Blaine91555

What is there to do?

I recall when the institutions for the mentally ill were shut down. It was a big campaign because it was simply inhumane and a violation of the rights of the mentally ill to keep them detained against their will.

Now, I am not saying that treatment centers were all well run. In fact, the government funded ones had problems like everything socialized inevitably does. However, we are seeing what happens when the mentally ill have their rights. People on the streets is what it looks like.

So what is the balance?

You had all sorts of agendas at work. Property developers wanted their hands on those Victorian buildings with high ceilings, especially in cities. Taxpayers alliances wanted any excuse to cut taxes. Social integrationists wanted everyone living together in public and not in institutions. Low paid working taxpayers were furious that other people were getting subsidized housing of higher standard than them. That's a fundamental problem when so many have to commute long distances because housing is unaffordable. Even building a new hospital or care home in the countryside is subject to planning permission restrictions, especially when there are no bus services.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
According to the news here in this city of 300,000 we have a steady population of homeless numbers around 3 to 4 thousand. There are maybe 50 who fall into the category of those you see drunk on the streets. Many actually have jobs but housing is so expensive here, they can't qualify for a place to live. There are thousands of invisible homeless here, who would be productive given the chance. Same in most large cities.

I disagree with you on where our city is concerned. There are 50 drunk/doped out per neighborhood at least, not per the whole city. No way, no how. I'm fairly sure you drive the same streets I do on the last Friday of each month and I can go from downtown to south via C-Street and pass bums passed out on the damn sidewalk, every bus shelter bench, and any cut off wall usually clear down to International and then pick them back up by jumping over to Old Seward. Go down around Beans on any given day and you'll find dozens of them not resting, not just sitting, but passed out often with the rescue wagon there trying to determine which ones need to be rushed to the ER.

We're in a unique situation compared to the lesser 48. A huge percentage of our problem comes straight from the villages. Village gets sick and tired of one of their residents continually screwing up, slothfulness, or in too many cases violence, rape, or assault of a child, and the village elders boot them out. They find their way here where there are enough open arms to ensure they get enough pity money to buy a bottle of booze or a baggie of drugs each day, wash, rinse, repeat.

As far as what drives folks not wanting them in their neighborhoods, that's easy... it isn't racist or bigotry, it's simply a fact that nobody wants to pay top dollar for something surrounded by squalor. I got an education and busted my ass for a white picket fence, neighbors I can trust, and a neighborhood where my kids can play without having to dodge landmines of human crap, broken liquor bottles, and all the other filth that comes along with that territory. Sadly I didn't get my picket fence nor do I particularly like my neighbors, but I'll be damned if my kids are going to grow up in the middle of some skidrow-lite degentrified neighborhood of artificially supported economic diversity.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
Are property values more important than other humans?

In some respects, yes. I know that each human being has the potential to be something great, but honestly, most of us are not. If we didn't exist, somebody pretty similar to us would. Ever go on the Internet looking for a solution to your personal problem and find that 5,000 people had that same problem and several of them even posted videos showing the solution? That's how unique we are. Not very.

Of course, that's the difference between someone having personal value to you and someone having a value to society in general. And I'm like everybody else. The farther somebody is distant from me genetically, the less I personally value them. That's why we send people to fight wars. That's why there are "Human Resources." Well, there are a lot of people out there who are not a resource to anyone.

a reply to: ketsuko

Those people would not be living in shelters anyway. Your talking about a small part of a much larger issue. I know for a fact here where I am, we have families living in their cars where one or both parents have a job. Housing here is crazy expensive and it's hard to qualify. Assisted housing takes as long as 2 or 3 years to get in.

As I pointed out, most are not even aware of the bulk of the homeless population and they wrongly assume the visible drunks and druggies on the streets are what they all are.

Let me tell you about Ogre. Out in front of my office for a few months I'd see this monster of a man panhandling two or three times a week, but always in the evenings or after work hours and weekends. We came to call him Ogre because of his appearance.

One day I'm outside and I see that someone had broke down in the middle of the street. I see him run out to the car and all by himself push it off to the side. A woman gets out looking at him like he's the spawn of Satan and she reaches out to hand him a $5 bill. I hear him tell her, no mam, I don't accept pay for helping others.

I got interested in him and initiated a conversation over something. First I noticed no alcohol on his breath and the calluses from work on his hands. We talked a bit and I find out he's a Veteran suffering from PTSD who is skilled in a couple of trades. The reason he was not there in the day is he went out on day jobs most days.

Then I find out from others he would get paid for the day, then take that money and feed his friends on the street and make sure they were taken care of. When he was standing on the corner it was to get food for his friends.

He had been waiting for three years for subsidized housing. He had help as far as mental health treatment, but after the appointment, back on the streets unable to qualify to rent a place.

One day he pokes his head in my office door all excited. After 3 years he finally got a studio apartment he could afford and wanted everyone to know. With what he made working day jobs and construction, he could have a home. FYI- Many homeless work day jobs.

A few days later I come in and there is a lot of commotion across the street, cops and an ambulance pulling off. Ogre (I'll withhold his real name) is dead. He had walked across town with a bag of groceries for his homeless friends and while visiting with them in a spot across from my office where they went to sit and have privacy he died.

He served his country, he learned two trades, carpentry and cement work and they left him on the streets for three years and it killed him. I was later told his heart just gave out. He was so proud of his new apartment and I admit, as a man it's one of the few times in my life I've shed tears.

They are not lunatics, they are human beings and as long as people think the few bad cases that are so visible represent the entire homeless population, so they pretend not to see the rest, it will not change.

'There but for the grace of God, go I' and everyone else.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
Are property values more important than other humans?

How many Americans dedicate their lives to charitable or volunteer efforts? That gives you your answer right there. Property is anything but cheap. Most Americans put 20-30 years of daily blood, sweat, and tears into purchasing and maintaining their property. It is an investment of time, money, and emotion. You may as well ask "Would you throw away 20 years of your time to "help" someone who has given up on themselves and lacks the effort required simply to do anything other than mooch off of others?" Yeah, property values are more important, frankly. Those who feel called to bust their ass in service to others, I salute you and think you're an amazing lot. The rest of us... well, charity isn't charitable and generousity isn't very generous if it's demanded or forced, ya?

ETA... and by slipping the story of Ogre in there while I was typing, I suddenly look like an ass. OK, Ogre was a good example of someone who put his fellow man ahead of himself. That's extraordinarily rare in this world.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

I know you and I will never agree Burd. We both speak quite freely about our feelings.

Again you ignore that the majority of the homeless, forget the exact number, are not who you describe.

I know I won't convince anyone, just my beliefs about how fellow humans should be treated.

For with whatever judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with whatever measure you measure, it will be measured to you.

I believe in that.

a reply to: Blaine91555

Yes, I've heard that story.

But there are more stories of the ones who won't do what it takes to get off the streets because they don't want to or cannot comply with the rules of programs designed to help them.

As for property ... well, if you've worked hard, scrimped and saved and invested tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands into a property and are facing the need to sell and relocate, you expect to at least break even. If something like this goes through and your house sells for less than what you invested, it represents something that could even prevent you from being able to relocate as you need to.

Then you lose the job, maybe lose everything, maybe end up on the street yourself as is happening to many in Cali.

This could sink many more.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Our streets are full of Ogre stories. No, you don't look like an ass, you're a good person. We just disagree in part.

a reply to: ketsuko

Well if I can get anyone to look beyond the heroin addicts or the drunks to see that there is more to the story, I'm happy.

I ask myself how proud of a people can we be when we treat the least among us as disposable.

a reply to: Blaine91555

Not disposable so much as intractable.

My brother-in-law's brother is one, and there isn't any fixing that problem. He swears he doesn't have one. So my sister and brother-in-law are at the point of minimizing the damage he can do to my nephews by limiting contact. If he won't seek help, then there is no amount of help that can make a difference.

a reply to: ketsuko

Could be true. I can't seem to get the conversation beyond all of them being lumped in with addicts and hopeless drunks, so I'll move on. Lots of good people being thrown aside due to that misconception.