My visit to The Skinwalker Ranch, 2018

a reply to: zeroPointOneQ

If you haven't noticed.. I'm Johnny Appleseed on ATS.

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

That's always the great question.

That's why i postulate a symbiotic evolution.

Then you postulate that a physical/qvl symbiosis probably happened/happens elsewhere in the universe and then all sorts of interesting thoughts will strike you, begging to be investigated.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

This made me smile!

Different orchards require different means

I do like apples by the way!

a reply to: zeroPointOneQ

LOL.

Actually, I had an unaccustomed extreme moment of humility strike me.
I don't know where it came from, and I hope it doesn't happen again.
But I really could use help.. I'm trying to solve all the big questions of
the Universe entirely by myself, since not long after I left the womb.

the problem is, that all people have such extreme biases and such extreme
desire to work on "their project" they don't let other people in.

I've known for some time, that I had to give away as much for free as possible,
but im still holding onto the "dangerous stuff".

That has to get put out there too.. I just don't want people to try home
chemistry experiments on themselves.. but I know that no matter what
I say, that they will.

I'm going to find a way to get the info out there.. and this monkey off my
back, that's been chittering and pooping on me for far too long.

Kev

a reply to: Caver78

While a few things have been mentioned and work in temporarily bringing this into a more equitable arrangement, no solution has worked permanently. We have yet to bring this to a 50/50 arrangement. Somewhere in all these continued encounters WE need to find the balance cause we know they are certainly not going to from "It's" side.

I say this from a strategic standpoint not an adversarial one.

Hmmm, 50/50 . . .

. . .dunno.

If one were to come to the point of "treaty", I would take the adversarial as well as the tactical position.

I would place upon the table this:

Release your hostages, withdraw your occupation forces and as a gesture of goodwill you can keep your military intact as a self defense force. Then we may talk.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Yeah to progress we need to be willing to take a few chances.

Symbiosis isn't as scary as it sounds.

Working out the relationship to one of harmony for both would be the challenge. One needs to be informed of the ramifications and of course exercise free choice for self determination right down to the individuals concerned.

There is also the question of with whom does one form a relationship.

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

Have you ever noticed that, in a manner of speaking, that Buddhism actually
teaches "symbiosis" and cooperation? It's a very light touch.. but IMHO it's there.
It's school specific to some degree I guess.

I'd say that many yoga techniques are rather confrontational to "the Phenomenon".
Especially Kundalini yoga. At least in the West, a lot of folks go charging after the
Phenomenon and seek to capture it forcefully.. they are then surprised when their
body detonates and they suicide.

Of course everything evolved from shamanism, in which shamans form alliances
with spirits and let them hang out in their body to learn from them... shamanism
varies a lot too of course.

But shamanism gives a look under the hood, of what's really going on with the
more "civilized" methods of approaching the "Phenomenon". Or of course
the new forms have evolved so far from their roots, that they just don't
work anymore.. i think that's more often true than not.. that modern forms
have lost their vitality and innocence (and effectiveness).

Well here's my point;

In Shamanism it's perfectly normal, for "spirits" to wander in.. live with the shaman
for years, then wander out.

In Buddhism (I'm no Buddhist scholar.. far from it).. but my understanding is that
that humans are born with "collections of tendencies" or "skandhas".

Now people who believe in "souls" are assuming that those "skandhas" are attrbutes
of a SINGLE "soul", which then reincarnates.

Only.

When I was in the Bardo, after having died for a while 15 years ago or so,
4 different "groups of tendencies" said goodbye to each other, after having
done this final required act.

One might say, that 4 different "sparks" or "little lives" had been working together
for some time, then when their work was done, they did whatever happens
after that.. It's beyond my paygrade.

So if indeed, some or all of us have these groups of "Phenomenon fragments"
working through physical bodies together on "projects", then that, is in fact
the exact same sort of symbiosis as a shaman would do.. except longer term..

If indeed that is the big answer.. that many such Phenomenon fragments
are in a fact "us" at least temporarily.. that would certainly explain why
"symbiosis" is not "creepy", but in fact the most natural thing in the world
for organic creatures.

Only.. don't invite in bad neighbors if you want to be a shamnan.. and if you
want to see a "UFO" or "bullet-proof wolf", you'll have to find one of the
"neighbors" (or if you want .. "soul fragments" that wants to play that game
with you.

Now.. followers of Kabbalah and in particular the famous Isaac Luria would say
oh yah... yawn... told ya.. you wouldn't listen.

but I'm coming at this from a shamanic perspective.. trying to make complete
sense of everything that has happened to me.

Wouldn't it be interesting if we were all building big plasma guns and shooting
at our own "souls" ?

How ironic that would be.. how uniquely human.

Just thinking out loud.

Now all that said.. that doesn't change the fact that I propose a vast ecosystem of
many kinds of lifeforms.. some interact with humans.. some don't.. some are
friendly.. some are not.. a few are even from off-planet.

but I can't think about "symbiosis" enough..

Humans tend to be a "shoot em first" and ask questions later sort of species..
so they might never learn how to live peacefully with other forms of life...
even if that "other form of life" is actually themselves.

Kev

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

It's rather obvious "they need us" or they'd just as easily be focusing on Raccoons or something else.
"Most" people don't ask for a seat at this party, yet get blindsided unexpectedly into it anyways.

Not symbiosis but the way I was told was;
"It takes one of them and one of us"

To advance their agenda they need "hands" on this side of the playing field. While they have limited ability to affect things in the "Human Physical" they do have some smarts we don't.

It can be a willing or unwilling partnership apparently.
You can agree to whatever terms and proceed, or be tricked into it. If you won't there are billions of other humans to pick from.

The only achilles heel for them with that is IF they have to go groom another idiot it can set their timeline off and delay things. (What things I have no clue) However it is quite a big bargaining chip. Tipping the scales in the Humans favor.

Logic-ing your way thru interactions with the Phenomena as KPB mentioned, is work. Very decidedly un-fun for it.
For us you just really can't have too many critical thinking skills or practice at it. So I've always seen that as an up-side to the whole mess.

KPB mentioned Shamanism.
It's less like you just invite them in an they hang out for awhile, but more like a couple of tradesmen contracted to do a job and both going their separate ways once the job is complete. Your contract can be crap or very lucrative depending on your negotiating skills. The Phenomena absolutely only cares about what it has to anti up from it's end.

However since the Phenomena has many different aspects to it, manifests in multiple ways, we're STILL all like the blind guys patting our own parts not seeing the whole elephant. My schtick is, within everyones experiences with it CAN be found commonalities and THOSE give us knowledge, insight an tools.

Mercia Eliade did it in his book "Images and Symbols" with things that were the same in every culture.
He was brilliant in doing so.

KPB gets the science aspect of it.
He loves it and the Phenomena makes it just as complicated as it needs to be for him. I prefer the KISS theory cause while it's feeding me more traditional archaic stuff, I'm busy noting and probing it's faux-pas. Neither way is better or worse than the other.

But put the information together and either we'll "get it" or someone outside of all this will see what we don't and hopefully clue us in.

Sorry for dragging you into my analogy KPB!!!
Just the quickest way to make my point.

Whatsthisthen has his pieces parts and many others do to. The quickest way to failure is the thinking that ONE person can crack this and get all the glory. Those people crash and burn Every. Single. Time.

a reply to: Caver78

No problem at all..

It takes a village to raise a Phenomenon ;-)

Just to re-emphasize though, in case you thought I'd reversed on my own observations..

There certainly ARE huggy-touchy-feely parts to the Phenomenon... hell... I've thought
for some time that "human souls" and a piece of Phenomenon are one and the same thing..

but I remember being possessed for 3 straight days... fighting my own limbs not to
strangle myself to death.. saying no to all the "offers" for my "compliance"..

So I'm not saying that there isn't some totally nasty crap out there.. world-killing
nasty crap. I've met it. In person. It was *SO* pissed, that the "companion" came
in and chased it off. So *enraged*.

So that sort of "cosmic" "good-like" and "evil-like" sort of stuff does seem to exist
in a limited sense..

but it would seem that most of humanities "evils" are self-inflicted.

I would certainly not trust any random "Phenomenon" on the side of the
road.

;-)

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

It takes a village to raise a Phenomenon ;-)

I like your humor there KPB.

I have noticed the "phenomenon" and Buddhist relationship. They have some very intelligent and powerful relationships with "phenomenon". Though I heartily disapprove of what they sometimes did to achieve that.

Yoga seems to have a Vedic origin (maybe) and their "phenomenon" such as the Nagi (snake gods) are perhaps equal or even more than humans when I compare my self with them.

I'll try not to waffle on in my usual fashion.

I'll just say that I have encountered "critters" like the ones you often talk about KPB and what you have written filled in a knowledge gap for me. Thankyou.

It was in a couple of deceased human children I was given by the "phenomenon". A little girl and her younger brother. It was while cleaning them up afterwards internally that a (aetheric?) worm about a yard long left the gastro intestinal/bowels. A few other things too and like you say KPB they did not like the light of day. I understand the worm is able to migrate from the gastro into the nervous system.

Coincidentally, Rudolph Steiner spoke, in his own upside down fashion, of the digestion as being a higher order nervous system and the nervous system as being higher order to the brain. So it makes sense in Anthroposophical terms that a worm can migrate from gastro to nervous system.

The children were orphened in the afterlife and the worm was just encountered while cleaning the kids up. I didn't give it much thought at the time.

Okay, so I did waffle on . . . .

Anyway, I'll be around ATS for the foreseeable future and it will be interesting where your work takes you.

a reply to: Caver78

It's rather obvious "they need us" or they'd just as easily be focusing on Raccoons or something else. "Most" people don't ask for a seat at this party, yet get blindsided unexpectedly into it anyways.

Not symbiosis but the way I was told was; "It takes one of them and one of us"

To advance their agenda they need "hands" on this side of the playing field. While they have limited ability to affect things in the "Human Physical" they do have some smarts we don't.

It can be a willing or unwilling partnership apparently. You can agree to whatever terms and proceed, or be tricked into it. If you won't there are billions of other humans to pick from.

The only achilles heel for them with that is IF they have to go groom another idiot it can set their timeline off and delay things. (What things I have no clue) However it is quite a big bargaining chip. Tipping the scales in the Humans favor.

Logic-ing your way thru interactions with the Phenomena as KPB mentioned, is work. Very decidedly un-fun for it. For us you just really can't have too many critical thinking skills or practice at it. So I've always seen that as an up-side to the whole mess.

KPB mentioned Shamanism. It's less like you just invite them in an they hang out for awhile, but more like a couple of tradesmen contracted to do a job and both going their separate ways once the job is complete. Your contract can be crap or very lucrative depending on your negotiating skills. The Phenomena absolutely only cares about what it has to anti up from it's end.

However since the Phenomena has many different aspects to it, manifests in multiple ways, we're STILL all like the blind guys patting our own parts not seeing the whole elephant. My schtick is, within everyones experiences with it CAN be found commonalities and THOSE give us knowledge, insight an tools.

Mercia Eliade did it in his book "Images and Symbols" with things that were the same in every culture. He was brilliant in doing so.

KPB gets the science aspect of it. He loves it and the Phenomena makes it just as complicated as it needs to be for him. I prefer the KISS theory cause while it's feeding me more traditional archaic stuff, I'm busy noting and probing it's faux-pas. Neither way is better or worse than the other.

But put the information together and either we'll "get it" or someone outside of all this will see what we don't and hopefully clue us in. Sorry for dragging you into my analogy KPB!!! Just the quickest way to make my point.

Nicely put.

I'll just throw something more into the melting pot.

Looking back over all my encounters and the cases that I have dealt with, more then half have had a control aspect behind it. That is to say; the individual phenomenon "entity" encountered was often being used as a proxy by something else.

For a long time now I have looked first for the hidden control aspect as the actual problem. This often means a different and much nicer outcome for the "phenomenon" concerned in the first instance - freedom. It is also a great deal more detective work but well worth it.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

It's almost trite to say, you don't appreciate the good without the bad. You can't appreciate the light without the dark as the contrast. Many people put it as having a foot in both worlds, but I've always found it more truthful to say you have to actually have a foot in three worlds.

One foot in theirs.
One foot in your own.
One foot in the greater human society.

Makes things a bit wobbly, Lots of juggling but I hear that the harder it is the more it builds character.
(facepalm)

My experiences with it were the reverse of yours. Lots of decent stuff, altho it was still hard work, for the Phenomena insists on rubbing your face all your own shortcomings and forcing you to address it before you get to learn any of the "fun stuff".
It isn't pretty.

THEN I got the truly ugly side of it.
Thank gosh for hindsight so while "in it" as horrific as it was, I now know.
On the other hand living thru "the unimaginably horrific" I also found out much about myself. In it's own way it
put me and my family thru lots similar to the Gorman's drama. Which BTW I would wish on no one.

However there is no half-way in. We used to tease around about it rather being like the Mafia. Once it's fixated on you, you're in it for life. That's the truly terrifying part. What the inexperienced don't understand is that in dealing or treating with it your consequences will not be solely just your own.

The Phenomena to get you to bend to it's will, WILL make all those you love suffer while you watch until it gets what it wants. Everyday people around you can almost sniff your difference so making friends get's problematic. The entire thing can be quite isolating unless you have the cahone's to dig in, get your family on board and fight for normalcy.

People who want "the weird" refuse to listen to this. To them it's all enlightenment and feeling "special" and all manner of silliness. It's actually just a ton of mind numbing grinding work.

What does this phenomenon look like and where does it fit in with Ghost's, UFO,s, Different Dimensions and Time Slips and if it is true then it makes the structured world of governments, banks, show business,sport and getting on the property ladder or being top dog at your job unimportant.

a reply to: Caver78

you might appreciate this post:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Well I've had good phases and bad phases with the Phenomenon too.

It was pure heaven living with the "companion".

But he/she/it left me when my parents starting beating me. Now... it's entirely
likely that functionally I left it and it didn't leave me... that the delicate
ability to symbiotically exist with it was disrupted by my suffering...

but it sure would have been nice.. if it hadn't let me be beaten repeatedly.

But again.. these "elites of the Universe" have these big projects of theirs..
and we are the 99% that pay the bill. It's trickle up economics.

Now... if you want to get all metaphysical.. it certainly seems that there is
only one lifeform, splintered into fragments.. pushing those pseudopods into
space-time and experiencing everything..

that we are ALL.. organics and sparks both.. just pieces of it.. and that's nice
and all.. and apparently true..

but it seems like we get the ass end of the deal.. of course we are just temporary..
and like Buddhists say, just "zombies".

Sigh.

I can understand why people invent opiate of the masses religions.. that have
no connection with reality, to make themselves feel better.. so that they don't
feel the needle go in so badly, as all these actors play with us.

There *is* beauty and wonder.. and maybe it's all fair... that being a pile of
rotting flesh is just as wondrous as being a semi-immortal god-thing that plays
with space and time like a knife through hot butter.

But it's not always easy to see it.

Kev

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

Want to say more about the machine intelligence control layer?

It's definitely there.. pushing our innocent "faeries" and "sparks" around..

It seems to have evolved from natural forces like 10 billion years ago..
and it's been a royal pain the ass ever since.

Most people never realize it's there...

Oh, I suppose the "demiurge" trope is a mirror of it.. but they got it
all wrong.. i'm certain that "true information" about the vast alien
machine intelligence that evolved 10 billion years ago is something it really
doesn't want out there..

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Whatsthisthen

Want to say more about the machine intelligence control layer?

It's definitely there.. pushing our innocent "faeries" and "sparks" around..

It seems to have evolved from natural forces like 10 billion years ago..
and it's been a royal pain the ass ever since.

Most people never realize it's there...

Most people never realize it's there...

Actually the Control Layer is the one layer I don't know much at all about. I know about the controlled technology layer mostly.

The pyramidal control structure is common enough yet doesn't seem to have one big central control structure controlling everything. But just because I don't know about it does not mean it is not there. If I were to guess it is like there are many independent control structures like we have nations. Some meaner then others yet all competing for survival in their own ways.

The Dalnegorsk Entity speaks of her (former) "owners" for instance.

I can tell when something is being controlled or has been subjugated in some way. Many of them have scores to settle when released which I stay right out of. None of my business.

Oh, I suppose the "demiurge" trope is a mirror of it.. but they got it all wrong.. i'm certain that "true information" about the vast alien machine intelligence that evolved 10 billion years ago is something it really doesn't want out there..

All I can say really is that that knowledge seems to be common knowledge; except where we earthly humans are concerned.

The big one from "ten billion years ago" is shattered, I understand it did so to itself to prevent something truly terrible from happening.

Shattered, yet it is still there.

A true Buddhist would never apply such a label as "zombie".

I think you misunderstand the philosophy.

a reply to: Restricted

I got the term from a true Buddhist, who lives in a temple,
and who the abbot informed that he had nothing more he
could teach him.

I know that preppy Buddhists would never say that.

Kev

PS: here is an Oxford University Research Paper on this very topic
Oxford being one of the most prestigious institutions on the planet:

Buddhas as Zombies

originally posted by: 808Funk
What does this phenomenon look like and where does it fit in with Ghost's, UFO,s, Different Dimensions and Time Slips and if it is true then it makes the structured world of governments, banks, show business,sport and getting on the property ladder or being top dog at your job unimportant.

For the purpose of conversation ALL those things are aspects of the Phenomena.
It will reach out to you in whichever way you find most acceptable.
Love to hunt Ghosts? Bet some of what you think are, actually aren't. Need to see UFO's? Guess what you'll get?

JMO but time slips are more our own perceptions being twisted "by it" than us dropping out of our reality, however everyone has their own opinion about it.

And NO!
Our society is important because we're human and need to do human things. Not to mention fail to learn to navigate it and you end up living in a box down by the river. LOL!!! The rest you mentioned depend on your value systems and preferences. Whatever floats your boat, right?

a reply to: Caver78

If I was forced against my will to worship a human being as god, it would have been Chris Farley.

Kev

a reply to: Caver78

Ever been in a car accident? Or in a situations where time appears to move more slowly ala time dilation? There is research to suggest that under immense stress or fear that we / our brains slow time down. Interestingly for people within the same experience of fear, the research also suggests that people experience time at different speeds under the same circumstances, granted hours at a time could not use this explanation fully