My visit to The Skinwalker Ranch, 2018

originally posted by: vlawde
By the way, for what it's worth, Jeremy just announced the SWR documentary is finished, and will likely be available towards the end of summer. Not sure what medium it'll be on.

Good to hear, but mostly it will be woo or borderline so

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Like most neighborhoods, you get the good, the bad and the ugly.

Some neighbors will take you to the stars if you ask nicely and are a good neighbor to them.

Some neighbors don't want to know you and they will punish you if you don't go away and leave them alone.

And some neighbors are like criminals, you don't get involved.

What they have in common is that if one neighbor trashes the street and insults everyone. Then that is the neighbor who gets run out of town.

Try and step out of the human-centric.

originally posted by: Whatsthisthen
Personally I don't think science is the right approach to approach the subject. My approach is to just go meet them , anyone can do that if they are polite and thoughtful.

Again, there are physical claims which would require a scientific approach. If people want to keep Skinwalker ranch in the realm of fantasy, continue to accept stories and make excuses for the need for scientific scrutiny. Also continue to build interest in a documentary that will give us more stories, claims, fluff and very little substance. Wanna know what drives away the seriousness of the subject overall?

Believe it or not, I'm open-minded and not just a naysayer that goes around calling BS or debunking. When claims are repeated and go on with zero supporting evidence, something is wrong. Blind acceptance is part of the problem. Skinwalker is also conveniently a mishmash of all things mysterious: bigfoot, UFOs, orbs, crop circles, etc. Forget about focusing on curb appeal to help a sale.

originally posted by: Ectoplasm8

originally posted by: Whatsthisthen
Personally I don't think science is the right approach to approach the subject. My approach is to just go meet them , anyone can do that if they are polite and thoughtful.

Again, there are physical claims which would require a scientific approach. If people want to keep Skinwalker ranch in the realm of fantasy, continue to accept stories and make excuses for the need for scientific scrutiny. Also continue to build interest in a documentary that will give us more stories, claims, fluff and very little substance. Wanna know what drives away the seriousness of the subject overall?

Believe it or not, I'm open-minded and not just a naysayer that goes around calling BS or debunking. When claims are repeated and go on with zero supporting evidence, something is wrong. Blind acceptance is part of the problem. Skinwalker is also conveniently a mishmash of all things mysterious: bigfoot, UFOs, orbs, crop circles, etc. Forget about focusing on curb appeal to help a sale.

Hmmm . . . you've presented quite a challenge there Ectoplasm8.

Challenge accepted!

Okay; What is acceptable "supporting evidence"?

It is fairly obvious from the way I write that I come from the position of personal familiarity with some of the neighbors; the "phenomenon" at Skinwalker Ranch, Orb UFOs, sentient machine awarenesses and so forth.

Now what supporting evidence can I bring to the table here I wonder?

Exhibit One:

While I was posting on ATS about contacting a deceased Orb UFO sentience from the Height11 incident, there was a coincidence occurring at the same time. Someone close to me started to bleed from the eyes and nose and almost drowned in their own blood as a result.

The timestamps on the ATS posts match the timestamp on the CCTV footage of which I include a screenshot below. I will leave it there until tomorrow night and then delete it. It is kinda personal.

Found a story about recovered UFO debris



Just a co-incidence.

Exhibit Two:

Again posting on ATS about one of the neighbors and fixing her temple located out in the Indian ocean, the perfect storm brews up and follows a harmless path down the West Australian coast afterwards.

Black Triangle UFOs and an Alleged Breakaway Civilization- Discuss

Just a co-incidence.

Exhibit Three:

I post on my work of growing an orchard with the purpose of building a location where the "phenomenon" can approach me and where we can get to know each other in a civilized manner over something to eat.

Here's a photo of my orchard:



That's an almond tree in the center background and it is just a co-incidence that an odd distortion shows up in a picture of a location set aside for feeding "phenomenon" like the Dalnegorsk Orb UFO sentience and the "bullet proof wolf".

Just a co-incidence.

Now, this is just three coincidences between postings and events.

If we were talking of say; an assault or a robbery in a court of law I would probably be convicted on circumstantial evidence and spending time in gaol.

So, are those three co-incidences good enough to be "supporting evidence"?

Maybe.

But it is not hard-core scientific evidence certainly. But what would be hard-core scientific evidence?

Just to my thinking it would be a physical specimen. A UFO on show or a body on a stainless steel table.

Now what would science do to the UFO or the body?

I don't think there is anyone alive who would not consider the probability that the UFO and body would be dissected.

Now let's just consider for a moment the "phenomenon's" position. It knows what science would do to it. It knows that at very least it would end up in the modern day equivalent of a traveling carnival on show for all to see.

The "phenomenon" won't let science near itself. The "phenomenon" might play with the researchers like a cat does a mouse, or simply stay away if it can.

Consider too, if science did get hold of a "phenomenon" to study, a part of that study would be the "phenomenon's" physiology and some scientist somewhere would study ways of controlling and ultimately killing the "phenomenon".

The phenomenon itself will avoid scientific study simply because of the nature of the scientific mind. The dissective mind is not the one that can approach the "phenomenon".

I would suggest the Dian Fossy approach which is to go live with the "phenomenon" if anyone wants to get to know the neighbors.

I'll still maintain that science isn't necessary to understand the "phenomenon", it is only science who thinks that way. Ordinary people have been, in various ways, understanding the "phenomenon" for thousands of years quite well.

Edit: Apologies Ectoplasm8 for my abrupt manner and my tone. My only excuse is that I am passionate when it comes to the "phenomenon" -- some of them are my girls.

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

If you knew how liminal I innately was.. how close to not being human at all
in terms of psychology, you wouldn't say such an uninformed thing.

It takes everything i have, to set aside some of my true nature, and to
embrace science, rationality and the human perspective.

Fortunately its begun to "stick", and I'm enjoying my little human
life these days.

I leave you to your way of life and work.. (...)

Kev

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

You see how "liminal" i am with my theories and perspective.

But I 100% agree with you.

Its geting to be time to "put up or shut up" for weird subjects.

This includes religion, spirituality and all the rest.

The # is poisoning us.

Humans yearn for the stuff.. its seem built into us..

so if there are true parts to them... we need to find them...

I think there ARE.. but its not what people want to be true..
its something else.

But to save the human race, if that's the goal.. we need to
make progress on these subjects..

Verify parts of them, or debunk ALL OF IT.. including religion
and spirituality... and GROW UP.

Kev

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

One of your points is quite interesting to me, and though I have no "evidence"
either, I can confirm it.

While a PART of the "Phenomenon" is on a 'cosmic scale' -- could melt a plant if it
felt like it...human almost NEVER run into one of the "adults". I lived with an
adult when I was young.. and when it's job was done, it left.

But nearly all the stuff people run into on Earth are the "little uns". Both the good
ones, and the "bad ones".

They are afraid. They have been afraid.

They will tell any lie required to keep us from understanding them, as humans
have long had the ability to hurt them.. and in fact if humans go "scorched
earth", they have the ability to kill them.

They don't want to be killed.

But humans have really messed themselves up with UFOlogy, religion and spirituality
(and warped weapons science).

We will NOT be evolving "spiritually" or socially.. to any degree sufficient to save
ourselves.. or "them". Most of "them" cant leave this planet..the harsh solar
radiation would tear them apart..

If there IS ever a "the Day the Earth Stood Still" type of thing on Earth, it won't
be the humans or animals who get evacuated.. nope.

It will be the "Littleuns", and maybe since the "good spirits left" a while back..
maybe a lot of them HAVE been evacuated.

This science thing needs to play out.

You protect your girls.. do what you can.

But science has to play out.

Humans need to debunk THEMSELVES.

Kev

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

Hi Whatsthisthen. I’m not seeing the almond tree distortion you mention. Could you point it out a bit more??

Nice orchard!

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

Where is the distortion in the orchard photo? Jealous of your beautiful orchard!

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I've followed the Near Death Experience topic since the 80's and I think the testimony of a good number of experiencers point to an enduring eternal life and alternate dimensions. Many of these point out to people what they did and said when the person was supposedly dead in the hospital. It might be anecdotal, but many of the recounting align and add to an expanding story.

a reply to: thepixelpusher

I"m more than happy for anyone to believe anything they want,
so long as they don't torture others with their beliefs.

If your research says that.. great!

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Ya know KPB, I can be a "cranky old coot", and you can be "thorny" at times. Getting old and being passionate tends to do that to a fella.

It would be interesting to sit down with ya over a few beers and compare notes on what we've seen over the years.

a reply to: JohnnyAnonymous

Quantum Physics seems to support alternate dimensions and the ability to affect things just by our attention.

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

Yes, it would.

BUT: PS:

I'm not one of those people who build this false mythology about themselves,
who give the impression that every day of their lives was a paranormal party.

That certainly has not been true for me.

As I clearly indicated.. there have been no more than 6 major events in my
live that could be characterized in some crazy way.. and maybe a dozen
minor ones... and lots of self-delusion that I had to clear away.

We are all players on the stage..I've had a few good scenes.. that's all.

I've had a lot of bad scenes. I still wonder on a daily basis whether it has
been wise for me to open my big yapp on ATS at all. There will be a price
to be paid for years to come.

But definitely could tip a glass of good ale and be entertaining for
an afternoon.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Ahh, a "paranormal party" - you could put it that way. Though not much fun amongst the games. I keep the position of the "doting grandfather" as it is a relative position that works for me and "them".

It is very hard to keep up with the workload and still keep a positive outlook.

And really I have to look at things this way to make the paranormal normal. To try and keep my perspective as a human and not take things too seriously, especially myself. Well I try to anyway.

ATS is a wonderful place really. ATS will eat you alive if your not carefull, but that is also what makes ATS wonderful. Survival training.

ATS is also full of new concepts for me, ordinary people researching the extraordinary. And most importantly for me is that I can drop some unusual breadcrumbs here and there with just the idea that someone might say "I wonder . . . ." and a door will open for them.

I have looked at a few of the other internet forums that read like a mutual appreciation society. No thank you.

And I wonder. Is science the right tool to use to destroy the old thinking? Or will we replace one monster with another?

To replace one control system with another?

My hope is that people will wake up to the world of the neighbors and understand for themselves in a nice way. Then people might look back at the old thinking and simply leave it behind.

But such a thing must percolate from the bottom up and not trickel down through a control system.

Yes I speak as if the paranormal is mundane. What other way can I do it? In arcane speak? In new age speak? or in science speak?

I just do my best to cope in my own way.

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

Humans are not innately rational.

They are a mass of conflicting impulses.

The neocortex is as the word partly means... "new". Rationality is a new
thing that was formerly evolving in humans. I'm not sure that its
still evolving. In our post factual era, it's probably being selected
against.

Don't let "science" wig you out. It's just a term.
Darwin was a scientist.. one of the most important humans ever to live..
but he wasn't some cold, hard, closed-minded guy.

People confuse science (being rational) with scientism... which is something
like the worship of science. People also assume that all scientists are hardcore
material, superreductionists that throw baby out with the bath water.

It's not true.

If I see a glimpse of "baby" then I acknowledge "hey! I see whats looks like baby
(the "paranormal" - which just means undiscovered science).

A very good case could be made that there only exists one of everything.. one proton,
one neutron, one electron say.. and that all of everything which exists is just some form
of programmers "linked list" hanging off the one template.. so that infinite universes
spring off the basic particles without any unnecessary waste of "entities" as our friend
Sir William of Okam might say. If such were true, that would blow away many of the arguments
against the many world's theory of quantum mechanics.

Now I'm not saying that is true.. but it could be... and it sounds more like a "religous or simulation"
type argument.. but you know what? If it turned out to be true? then I'd support that evidence
until such time as it was falsified.

I'm just saying.. don't let the word "science" spook you ;-)
don't make hasty assumptions.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Yeah I think "sciencism" when science is mentioned your right. I don't mix much with humans. I live in the bush and most of my friends live in paranormal-land. I don't get out much.

(I'll try to be nice to science)

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

Ive seen you post the time-stamped photo a few times and spent some time looking at it. I'm not sure I understand what's going on in that picture though. Is the white area added to the photo by someone to hide something? Like debris?

I would welcome a Skinwalker as a friend.
Drinks on the house.
Actually on the roof of the house.
Don't come inside. You may freak out the customers,

a reply to: skunkape23

Shapeshifter...