The return of Jesus

originally posted by: LightAssassin
a reply to: Sheye

AAhh.....when Jesus stepped into an alien spacecraft.

You may be onto something here!

originally posted by: dug88

originally posted by: Sheye
Acts 1:11



11"Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."

So he'll come back nailed to a cross??

Ridiculous!! You obviously aren’t familiar with the bible. After His resurrection from the dead , He was still ministering to His disciples for 40 days . It was after this period He ascended into heaven with some of His disciples witnessing Him being raised into heaven.

a reply to: Soulece

Agreed. I in fact also sometimes refer to the same as: HE, SHE, THEY, IT, THEM.
(I have friends of many beliefs).

a reply to: DpatC

It wasnt sarcasm.....It was a serious comment.

originally posted by: LightAssassin
a reply to: DpatC

It wasnt sarcasm.....It was a serious comment.

That's why I said that you may be onto something

originally posted by: DpatC

Thanks for all the replys but nope, but everything seems circumstantial. I can see how some may be convinced on Jesus's return, but nope Im looking for a direct quote or paragraph that talks directly about his return....Logic tells me that Jesus's "successor" will be someone who represents the Light of Life. Now there ain't many people in creation who can represent th Light of Life. It's either a family or the Creator himself - not Jesus, he's only the Light of the World not LIFE

I can quote direct verse from John that he will not return.

19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live.

Also Matthew 24:22-25
22 Unless those days had been cut short, no [j]life would have been saved; but for the sake of the [k]elect those days will be cut short. 23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the [l]Christ,’ or ‘[m]There He is,’ do not believe him. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will [n]show great


signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the [p]elect. 25 Behold, I have told you in advance.

a reply to: EasternShadow

Jesus will return. He has promised.

Interesting that you would state such a thing, as if the Bible ends there, or that we are to take individual sentences as the be all and end all of any understanding. The Bible works as a whole, as do multiple sentences strung together, as do paragraphs. Do not lead people down a false path when you don't understand what the Bible is saying.

Jesus is warning people to be watchful, to be aware that there will be many trying to deceive others. And, that many will come claiming to be Him, or claim to have powers equal to His. The end times will be Satan's last attempt to destroy mankind, to take as many down with him as he can. Fear and distrust will cause many to follow another who can claim to protect or save them during terrifying or unsure times. Jesus is warning us to be watchful, prepared, aware, and not to be taken in.

There is only one Jesus and we must hold anyone who claims to be him against the true Jesus. Jesus will only come back in the way He has promised in the Bible.

originally posted by: InvisibleLady
Jesus will return. He has promised.

And you assume Jesus is the "Son of Man"? And why is that? Christian never view Jesus as "Son of Man," as Jesus always claim. So why now change view from "Son of God" or "God" to "Son of Man"? Have you wonder why Jesus didn't consistently used, "I" or "Christ" , as he did throughout the chapter, when he was talking about this "Son of Man"? Could he refer to other "Son of Man", maybe an ordinary man who is not the "son of god"?

But I know you would not like it. You would rather make a lot of conjurations and assume they are all true. Believe what you want, for I will follow what Matthew had said, by denying anyone who would claim themselves as Jesus or Christ. Only few of us will survive anyway, so what does it matter?

originally posted by: InvisibleLady
There is only one Jesus and we must hold anyone who claims to be him against the true Jesus. Jesus will only come back in the way He has promised in the Bible.

The gate is narrow, and Jesus made promises to Peter and the apostles that he would made a place for them. Did Jesus said the same things to you? Are you Jesus's 12 chosen apostles? It really nice to be the one who Jesus choose, but like I said, many of us will not be alive when the hour will come."Many are Called, but Few are Chosen".

Remember this:

John 14:18-30

On that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you are in Me, and I am in you. Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him.

If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make Our home with him. Whoever does not love Me does not keep My words. The word that you hear is not My own, but it is from the Father who sent Me.

All this I have spoken to you while I am still with you. But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have told you.

I will not speak with you much longer, for the prince of this world is coming, and he has no claim on Me. But I do exactly what the Father has commanded Me, so that the world may know that I love the Father.

Get up! Let us go on from here.

a reply to: EasternShadow

Hi EasternShadow -

I don’t want to fight with you, perhaps we can discuss this. Through my life I learn more all the time about Jesus and the Bible. No one ever knows everything the Bible is saying for we are only human. It’s good to have discussions with each other as this is what the body/human church is all about – to fellowship which is where growth, support, love and insights occur.

Jesus proclaimed himself as the son of Man, as the son of God and as God. These verses may help. I only go by what the Bible says and don’t put my own spin on things. And if I am called out in error I will investigate the point further. I am no expert.

Jesus is the son of Man –
Jesus Christ describes himself as Son of Man to stress his humanity Mt 8:20 pp Lk 9:58 See also Mt 11:19 pp Lk 7:34; Mt 16:13,15; Lk 6:22; Jn 9:35

Jesus is the son of God -
Luke 1:35, John 10:36,
Mark 1:1
John the Baptist Prepares the Way
1 The beginning of the good news about Jesus the Messiah,[a] the Son of God,

Jesus is God -
Titus 2:13 - looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ
2 Peter 1:1 (Jesus is the Redeemer) - “To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ

When you say only a few of us will survive anyway, and what does it matter – what do you mean? Anyone who has Jesus as their Savior will be saved. My body will someday die, that is a given no matter what happens on this earth. I personally believe in the Rapture and if I am still alive when that occurs then my body will not die. But, regardless my soul will live on forever in the presence of God and all His glory and in eternal peace/love/joy/wonder. We are spirit beings trapped in this human body.

The prince of this world refers to Satan. He will show up during the Tribulation and declare himself to be God. Again, I believe in the Rapture, the “Harpazo” and so I personally believe we will escape the terror that will come. People will turn to Jesus after the Rapture, and they will end up with Jesus forever, but they will not have the first escape as those who are raptured. I can delve more into this if you wish, but that is a quick and simple point to outline why there is ALWAYS hope and that not only a few will survive.

The gate is narrow means that following Jesus can be hard and many don’t choose that path because it means ignoring our carnal desires and thoughts and living as Jesus would live, and keeping Him in our mind in all we do. It’s easier for the majority to live an undisciplined life of gossip, watching anything we wish, listening to whatever we want, talking bad about other people, not helping others, focusing on only money, making the internet our Idol, giving into fleshly desires, putting off getting to know Jesus when we live in this world of flesh temptations and when we surround ourselves with other people who don’t know Jesus. If one looks at the majority they couldn’t care less about planning for their forever home (with Jesus), they just want to live for today and feed their pleasures. I could elaborate in more depth, but this is the gist of it.

Jesus was promising a place for everyone when he told Peter and the Apostles that he would make a place for them. Jesus did not put my name in the Bible, but I am covered by simply believing that Jesus is my Savior. My name is written in the Book of Life that He will look in to see if I go with Him or am rejected (the sheep and the goats). The Book of Life records forever all people considered righteous before God. ... The Psalmist likewise speaks of the Book of Life (Daniel 12:1, Luke 10:20, Revelation 3:5) in which only the names of the righteous are written "and from which the unrighteous are blotted out". (When we accept Jesus as our Savior God sees perfection because Jesus is perfection and all our sins and imperfections are erased. God does not remember any sins because Jesus is perfection.)

Anyone who follows Jesus is an Apostle. An Apostle was just like an apprentice. Jesus’ Apostles were no more, no less than you and me. When we accept Jesus as our Savior the Holy Spirit comes to dwell within us – we have a direct connection to God, to Jesus, to the Holy Spirit. We are not powerless humans – we are sons and daughters of God and we have a relationship with Him. Jesus was sent to the Jews, but the Jews rejected Him, and God opened His arms to the rest of all humanity. There should be no religious labels, but mankind has created his own terms of what the Bible says and created labels that define, limit and demean people. Jesus told his disciples to, Matthew 10:8, “Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.” This is for all of us believers – it is meant to create Apostles forevermore. You and I can, and should be doing this.

Again, I don’t mean to argue, I’d rather have a conversation with you. I hope we can discuss this with equal respect and kindness.

edit on 16-4-2018 by InvisibleLady because: typo!

originally posted by: InvisibleLady
I don’t want to fight with you, perhaps we can discuss this. Through my life I learn more all the time about Jesus and the Bible. No one ever knows everything the Bible is saying for we are only human. It’s good to have discussions with each other as this is what the body/human church is all about – to fellowship which is where growth, support, love and insights occur.

Oh I agree. That is why I am here too make sure you do not equalize faith with assumption because it can be a deadly sin.

originally posted by: InvisibleLady
Jesus proclaimed himself as the son of Man, as the son of God and as God. These verses may help. I only go by what the Bible says and don’t put my own spin on things. And if I am called out in error I will investigate the point further. I am no expert.

Jesus is the son of Man –
Jesus Christ describes himself as Son of Man to stress his humanity Mt 8:20 pp Lk 9:58 See also Mt 11:19 pp Lk 7:34; Mt 16:13,15; Lk 6:22; Jn 9:35

I have no argument at all. I accept them all.

originally posted by: InvisibleLady
Jesus is the son of God -
Luke 1:35, John 10:36,
Mark 1:1
John the Baptist Prepares the Way
1 The beginning of the good news about Jesus the Messiah,[a] the Son of God,

Hmmm. I'm not saying you are wrong. But you definitely need a lot solid proof than that. You will need something like Jesus explicitly said that he is the son god. Actually you can easily find that too. There are many verses. But the problem is Jewish tradition. They like to call almost anything/anyone who had intimate relationship with god as "son of god" for example, Adam, angels, nephilim, Israelites like the Jewish Rabbis, John the Baptist, Jesus of Nazareth and many others. Because of this, you will have to dig further to prove that Jesus is literally the son of god, and not like the rest of "sons of god."

originally posted by: InvisibleLady
Jesus is God -
Titus 2:13 - looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ
2 Peter 1:1 (Jesus is the Redeemer) - “To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ

And here is the problem. You see, although the doctrine of trinity require you to have faith in one god, it also require you to distinct the three persons. The father, the son and the holy spirit. In the case of above verses, I can clearly see the distinction between the father and the son. Both Titus and Peter said AND. Therefore, what Titus and Peter said was about God (The Father) AND Savior Jesus Christ ( The begotten son of God ).

originally posted by: InvisibleLady
When you say only a few of us will survive anyway, and what does it matter – what do you mean? Anyone who has Jesus as their Savior will be saved. My body will someday die, that is a given no matter what happens on this earth. I personally believe in the Rapture and if I am still alive when that occurs then my body will not die. But, regardless my soul will live on forever in the presence of God and all His glory and in eternal peace/love/joy/wonder. We are spirit beings trapped in this human body.

Make no mistake, not anyone who has Jesus as their savior will be saved. That is exactly why I posted John 4:18-30. Only those who keep Jesus command will be saved. Jesus reveal himself to those who keep his command, for he is within those who keep his command. Jesus explicitly said it to the apostles because they are already promised their places.

Please keep in mind, what you interpreted as "Jesus coming" is different than what I understand as "Jesus revelation", because Jesus do not reveal himself to those who are not keeping his command, regardless of what John of Patmos said.
John 14:22
Judas (not Iscariot) asked Him, “Lord, why are You going to reveal Yourself to us and not to the world?”
Matthew 14:22 also agree with this, "For many are called but Few are chosen,"

When Jesus said “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." It does not mean free pass. You will have to ask what "way"? Jesus answered it all through what I have already posted earlier in John 14:18-30.

This is important because there is no such thing as free pass. Many hypocrite Christians and bishops who commited pedophilia will not see the light of day.

To earn your place you will have to work hard for salvation.

a reply to: EasternShadow

Hi EasternShadow ☺

I am curious – are you affiliated with any specific faith group? I am not. I have been to many churches (Baptist, Anglican, Catholic, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Catholic, Evangelical, non-denominational), looked up which church I would like to join, but have come to the conclusion I don’t wish to belong to a building in which they have a set stance of core beliefs because most of them insist you have to have or believe something of their own take on what the Bible says and I do not wish to represent something manmade about their rules interpreted of what has to happen, i.e. I do not speak in tongues. I would like to, but it has never happened to me. Maybe it will someday. I do believe it is a gift of the Holy Spirit. I believe in water baptism but I don’t believe that anyone will lose eternal life if they decide to have a water baptism but at the moment are in some desert and then die. I don’t believe babies have to be baptized. And so, I don’t belong to any church, or any man-made organization of religion. My church is Jesus, his words and the Bible. I have family and friends that are one of everything it seems.

Yes, the Jews had the Talmud, and their traditions. But, didn’t Jesus come to do away with all the rules? To set the Jews free? He overruled all that. Traditions are nice and there are certain traditions that God wants people to keep, and He wants us to keep the Commandments, but the new law is that love replaces all the old. Mainly because love does lie, doesn’t steal, doesn’t murder, etc. And, because Jesus bore our sin and erased it forever (past/present/future) then we are always working with a clean slate as long as we repent (tell God that we are repenting and then change our ways). Also, Jesus was sent for the Jews. I am not a Jew, but because I am a Gentile and because God has grafted the Gentiles onto the vine (to what Jesus is offering and who Jesus is), then the Talmud doesn’t apply to me. Again, I respect it and honor it’s history and acknowledge it, but Jesus replaces the Talmud. I know what you are saying, but just wanted to express my thoughts on that.

The fact that Jesus came down to earth, grew as a human with all the desires and temptations as a man, but lived with a purity and sinless life He was the only one that ever was perfect. Jesus does not need to say that He is the son of God, because God Himself said it:
Matthew 3:17, “And a voice from heaven said, "This is my dearly loved Son, who brings me great joy."
Demons also recognized Jesus as the son of God: Matthew 8:29 “And suddenly they cried out, saying, 'What have we to do with you, Jesus, you Son of God?”
Jesus has all authority, no one else does:
Matthew 28:18, “Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.”
The name of Jesus means Mighty God: Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
The name of Jesus means God: John 1:1
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
Jesus is God, he has the power to create life - Acts 3:15, “And you killed the Author of Life, whom God raised from the dead. To this we are witnesses.”

A good explanation as to the Trinity, and how Jesus is God and yet that God, Jesus, and Holy Spirit are all distinctive personalities, but work as one:
*We also see the distinction / unity at work when Jesus speaks about sending the Holy Spirit in John 16 - he describes this as both he and the Father coming. So the three persons of the trinity are distinct, but they are all God - they all share the same motivations and objectives. They are all co-eternal, they are all perfect.
* We see this distinction / unity when Jesus identifies himself with the Father, saying that he and the Father ‘are one’ (John 10:38, 17:11,21), and that he is in the Father and vice versa (John 14:11). Jesus does not say that he IS the Father, or that he and the Father are the SAME, but that they are ONE. So they are distinct, yet unified.
* There is only one God - so even as we talk about the three persons of the trinity we are talking about one God. All three persons of the trinity are God. If you want to look at some verses, you could look at Deuteronomy 6:4, Galatians 1:1, John 1:1-18, and Matthew 2 28:19.
christianity.net.au...

I understand what you are saying, I think, is verse John 13:34 - “Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”

I would say to this that is the act of perfection to be able to love one another as Jesus instructed us, but that we are stuck in our flesh bodies with our carnal mind which is always an enmity against God, Romans 8:7. And so, we can have the best intentions, be in the act of loving another as instructed, mean it when we say, and act perfect for maybe a few hours, or maybe a few days, but ultimately the carnal mind will win and we will not be able to keep this commandment. This does not mean we have free reign to disobey it, but it does mean that we are unable to. But, it’s okay because the moment that we accept Jesus’ gift of forgiveness, accept Him as our Savior, repent of our sins we are immediately covered by the righteousness of Jesus. That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. Romans 10:9-10
We can rest in the fact that we are saved. The Bible tells us that our works and efforts do not get us into Heaven, there is no way we could ever accomplish the perfection needed to get into Heaven. The thief who died on the cross beside Jesus did not live a life that glorified Jesus, however Jesus promised him as they hung together that he would be at Jesus’ side in Heaven. And Jesus replied, "I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise." Luke 23:43
Jesus is love, God is love – they provided the easiest, the most simple and most loving way of being reunited in perfection with them: to say yes to Jesus.

CONTINUED ----

a reply to: EasternShadow

All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away. Isaiah 64:6
The Bible tells us that no matter what we do is not enough to redeem ourselves. And, in fact it dilutes the message of what Jesus did to save us. Why would He have to die and suffer such humiliation and bodily torment, and be separated from God at the moment of judgement on the cross if we still had to work to attain saving? And, if we were to have the ability to work our way to redemption then who is to say that we have worked hard enough? Had true love in our hearts? We are all damaged by this earthly existence, both in the way we think, our ego, how we have been treated. We can never act with pure love as God would see as pure, and we will always fail. We can try but somehow, someway we will always fail – by the creeping thoughts that malign another even in our act of love, by the subconscious behavior that makes us say/do something even when we don’t realize it even as we are behaving in love, sometimes we act with love towards another for selfish reasons – because we need the love or because we think it’s the right thing to do but the actual genuine full heart isn’t the one involved, it is our need for recognition/thinking we have to do it, and not everyone can even comprehend what love is for they have never been shown how to demonstrate love, or been loved. Love is trained by everything on this earth. How many people are in love with another human but it’s actually a self-serving need to be needed/acknowledged/is lust/loneliness. That’s not the kind of love that Jesus meant, but many wouldn’t realize it. There is no way we as humans can demonstrate the pure love that Jesus meant. We can try, but that is all we will ever do is try. And some will act out of pure love but it’s fleeting, and/or just blips of time in our long life. Jesus is the ultimate perfection of love and sinless nature. We can be saved through Him only.

There will be those who will not be saved, who say the right things but don’t mean it in their heart. Jesus knows the heart of everyone, we can hide nothing from him.
Matthew 7:21-23 I Never Knew You
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!”

I believe everyone who means what they say in their heart, those who have truly repented will be saved, including pedophilia. No one is better or less than another. Sin is sin to God. God loves the individual but hates the sin. Sin cannot enter Heaven, but the sinner’s sins are erased and forgotten when we accept Jesus.
Isaiah 43:25 "I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more.
This does not apply to just a mild sinner and not to the murderer. It does not apply to an adulterer and not the child that steals a candy bar. Sin is sin.
People make it so simple and the devil wants to make us think it’s difficult or that we are too dirty, too full of sin, or fill us with such guilt that we can never forgive ourselves, or we allow anger to consume us and we find we can’t forgive others. If Jesus can forgive you and me, He can forgive every single person. If He were to allow only a specific type of sin to get a free pass then He is a hypocrite for not letting another sin. Who calculates the degree of sin? Only God has that right and ability and He has told us how to be clean before Him through Jesus.

originally posted by: InvisibleLady
a reply to: EasternShadow

Hi EasternShadow ☺

I am curious – are you affiliated with any specific faith group? I am not. I have been to many churches (Baptist, Anglican, Catholic, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Catholic, Evangelical, non-denominational), looked up which church I would like to join, but have come to the conclusion I don’t wish to belong to a building in which they have a set stance of core beliefs because most of them insist you have to have or believe something of their own take on what the Bible says and I do not wish to represent something manmade about their rules interpreted of what has to happen, i.e. I do not speak in tongues. I would like to, but it has never happened to me. Maybe it will someday.

You shouldn't. I will explain later.

originally posted by: InvisibleLady
I do believe it is a gift of the Holy Spirit.

Yes. Indeed. Spirit exist, as well as Holy Spirit. Without Spirit our body and mind will decompose. Our consciousness will be gone, and all our senses will no longer functioning. There is energy flowing in dark void, but there is no senses. It's death.

originally posted by: InvisibleLady
I believe in water baptism but I don’t believe that anyone will lose eternal life if they decide to have a water baptism but at the moment are in some desert and then die. I don’t believe babies have to be baptized.

It does not matter. Babies will always go to heaven regardless of faith, because they are pure innocent soul.

originally posted by: InvisibleLady
And so, I don’t belong to any church, or any man-made organization of religion. My church is Jesus, his words and the Bible.

I agree.

originally posted by: InvisibleLady
The fact that Jesus came down to earth, grew as a human with all the desires and temptations as a man, but lived with a purity and sinless life He was the only one that ever was perfect. Jesus does not need to say that He is the son of God, because God Himself said it:
Matthew 3:17, “And a voice from heaven said, "This is my dearly loved Son, who brings me great joy."
Demons also recognized Jesus as the son of God: Matthew 8:29 “And suddenly they cried out, saying, 'What have we to do with you, Jesus, you Son of God?”
Jesus has all authority, no one else does:
Matthew 28:18, “Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.”

So you have found the proof of Jesus is literally the son of god, unlike any others sons of god. Well done. I knew you would find the evidence. It is really not that hard.

originally posted by: InvisibleLady
The name of Jesus means Mighty God: Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
The name of Jesus means God: John 1:1
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

First of all, Jesus name in original Hebrew text is Yeshua ישוע. Jesus historical proper name is Yeshua bar Yosef ( Jesus son of Joseph ). ישוע ( Yeshua or Jesus ) is related to the Hebrew verb root √yšʿ "rescue, deliver" and one of its noun forms, yešuaʿ "deliverance".

Secondly, Jesus is not a unique name. We have archeology records that show the name have been in use.

The name Jesus appears to have been in use in Palestine at the time of the birth of Jesus.[2][14] Moreover, Philo's reference in Mutatione Nominum item 121 to Joshua (Ἰησοῦς) meaning salvation (σωτηρία) of the Lord indicates that the etymology of Joshua was known outside Palestine.[15] Other historical figures named Jesus include Jesus Barabbas, Jesus ben Ananias and Jesus ben Sirach.
en.m.wikipedia.org...

And lastly there is no evidence that Isaiah 9:6 and John 1-1 point to Jesus, as you can see all the names given by Isaiah are off. Jesus name is literally meant for salvation, as intended by YHWH. I used YHWH here against Jewish tradition, because Christian always mix up between YHWH the father ( LORD translations in almost every English Bible ) and Jesus the begotten son. Jesus was clearly meant to be sacrificial lamb, even John the Baptist knew that.

I don't trust John narrative, but I don't completely dismiss his view. In the case of John 1-1, I would say John make no sense. John make statement that the word has beginning and equate the word as god. You see, John fatal mistake is the word god has beginning, thus John had contradicted himself with the doctrine of The Eternal God. God has no beginning. God is everlasting. Therefore god cannot be the word. And god never mute before the word has the beginning. The word god always exist as with God. Therefore John made an error. Because John also made errors in various narrative in the Gospel of John, it is fair to assume, John made up his narrative or could have been influenced by Platonism, god-man concept. Not to mention the doctrine of preexisting Jesus is not new. The first who propose preexisting Jesus was Arius to form Arianism. This view is considered heretical even to this day. The acceptable concept is Jesus is the begotten son of god, in accordance to Mark, Matthew and Luke Testimonials.

You may believe the bible is perfect. I don't believe so. The bible is full of controversies and the process of canonize the bible was full of controversies too. The most obvious is the book of Revelation. The modern Syriac and Orthodox Church oppose the use of Revelation in Liturgy. There are so many thing wrongs about the Bible, it is not difficult to see why. The main reason I do not throw the bible in dustbin is because there is the word of god somewhere inside that book. I just couldn't bring myself to burn it.

originally posted by: InvisibleLady
Jesus is God, he has the power to create life - Acts 3:15, “And you killed the Author of Life, whom God raised from the dead. To this we are witnesses.”

I can show you other prophets can raise the dead as well.
Elijah raised the son of the widow of Nain 1 Kings 17:17-24, while Elisha raised Shunammite's Son 2 Kings 4:18-37. So no. There is no evidence that point to other than the Son of God. In fact, there are many bible verses where, Jesus said the father is greater than him, he is not doing on his own will but his father's will and everything he did was NOT to glorify himself but to glorify his father. As you can see, Jesus explicitly claims he can't do anything without his father. A god of equal will never say such things.

originally posted by: InvisibleLady
And Jesus replied, "I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise." Luke 23:43

Jesus was assuring the two criminals beside him for they have have said in Luke 23:41,"We are punished justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our actions."
Thing to consider here is repent.

originally posted by: InvisibleLady
Jesus is love, God is love –.

They are. But it's not justification to be hypocrite like the pedophile catholic priest or using god's name to steal orphan's donation money etc.. Sin is still sin.

a reply to: EasternShadow

The first who propose preexisting Jesus was Arius to form Arianism. This view is considered heretical even to this day.

I don't believe Arius was the first to suggest such things... his main point was that there was a point in time when Jesus did not exist... he was a created being

And Arianism is only heretical to trinitarians... which is a heresy in its own right

Arians still have a church... and consider themselves "Catholic"

arian-catholic.org...

originally posted by: InvisibleLady
The Bible tells us that no matter what we do is not enough to redeem ourselves.

I agree.

originally posted by: InvisibleLady
And, in fact it dilutes the message of what Jesus did to save us. Why would He have to die and suffer such humiliation and bodily torment, and be separated from God at the moment of judgement on the cross if we still had to work to attain saving?

Because any Christian would commit sins including the 7 deadly sins if go unchecked and think that it's would not anger God. It is wrong. You can't compare everyone with the apostles. There was Jesus who monitor the apostles. We do not have Jesus today. Do you honestly believe christian who murder anyone will enter heaven unchecked? Do you believe God is both Justice and Mercy? Do you believe in judgement day? Do you believe everyone will be judge accordingly?

originally posted by: InvisibleLady
And, if we were to have the ability to work our way to redemption then who is to say that we have worked hard enough? Had true love in our hearts? We are all damaged by this earthly existence, both in the way we think, our ego, how we have been treated. We can never act with pure love as God would see as pure, and we will always fail. We can try but somehow, someway we will always fail – by the creeping thoughts that malign another even in our act of love, by the subconscious behavior that makes us say/do something even when we don’t realize it even as we are behaving in love, sometimes we act with love towards another for selfish reasons – because we need the love or because we think it’s the right thing to do but the actual genuine full heart isn’t the one involved, it is our need for recognition/thinking we have to do it, and not everyone can even comprehend what love is for they have never been shown how to demonstrate love, or been loved. Love is trained by everything on this earth. How many people are in love with another human but it’s actually a self-serving need to be needed/acknowledged/is lust/loneliness. That’s not the kind of love that Jesus meant, but many wouldn’t realize it. There is no way we as humans can demonstrate the pure love that Jesus meant. We can try, but that is all we will ever do is try. And some will act out of pure love but it’s fleeting, and/or just blips of time in our long life. Jesus is the ultimate perfection of love and sinless nature. We can be saved through Him only.

That is why you have to believe God is both Justice and Mercy.

originally posted by: InvisibleLady
There will be those who will not be saved, who say the right things but don’t mean it in their heart. Jesus knows the heart of everyone, we can hide nothing from him.
Matthew 7:21-23 I Never Knew You
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!”

Two things you need to pay attention here, "he who does the will of My father" and "those who practise lawlessness". The first is work. The second is laws. Doing nothing is not work. Committing pedophilia is not following the laws. Both of this will not result in salvation.

originally posted by: InvisibleLady
I believe everyone who means what they say in their heart, those who have truly repented will be saved, including pedophilia. No one is better or less than another. Sin is sin to God. God loves the individual but hates the sin. Sin cannot enter Heaven, but the sinner’s sins are erased and forgotten when we accept Jesus.
Isaiah 43:25 "I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more.
This does not apply to just a mild sinner and not to the murderer. It does not apply to an adulterer and not the child that steals a candy bar. Sin is sin.

Not everyone has the chance to repent. What if you died of shocked death such as car accidents, earthquake, etc? What if you died in your sleep? You will still die a sinner death even if you are a christian. Do you believe your life and death is planned by god? Do you believe you can escape sin simply by repent before death? It is not that simple. God can take a baby life without any cause, such SIDs, just as he can take any man's life without any cause and a Not moment to delay. I can assure you death can be quick and painless that you wouldn't even thought of repenting. And that is the danger of blind faith in salvation. Jesus said, to keep his command for he is within those who keep his command. Sinners, regardless christian or not do not have Jesus within them and would not expect "revelation" no matter what.

originally posted by: InvisibleLady
People make it so simple and the devil wants to make us think it’s difficult or that we are too dirty, too full of sin, or fill us with such guilt that we can never forgive ourselves, or we allow anger to consume us and we find we can’t forgive others. If Jesus can forgive you and me, He can forgive every single person. If He were to allow only a specific type of sin to get a free pass then He is a hypocrite for not letting another sin. Who calculates the degree of sin? Only God has that right and ability and He has told us how to be clean before Him through Jesus.

Sin is sin. There is no justification for sin on earth. No murderer, child abuser etc will escape justice. Justice and mercy belong to God. It is where you will be judged accordingly. It does not matter whether you are christian or Jews or moslem. Justice and Mercy is what you need most in time of death. As long as you repent, there should not be any problem. It is really not that hard. The problem is can you repent before death? How do you know your death will be easy or difficult, quick or slow?

No one knows that.

originally posted by: InvisibleLady
And, because Jesus bore our sin and erased it forever (past/present/future) then we are always working with a clean slate as long as we repent (tell God that we are repenting and then change our ways).

The answer is repent. The question is when are we going to repent? Will God give us the chance to repent before the hour of death?

originally posted by: InvisibleLady
The Bible tells us that our works and efforts do not get us into Heaven, there is no way we could ever accomplish the perfection needed to get into Heaven.

Paul believe in faith alone.
I don't. Because I don't believe Jesus will saved murders, rapers, child abusers and Adolf Hitler through faith alone. Probably Jesus will try to save Adolf Hitler, but 6 million Jews souls would not be as compassion and forgiven as Jesus. And God is Justice as well as Mercy. Many injustices souls will be there to testify against all the crimes commited to them. Their cries shall be heard, even if they're pagan or Greek or Roman or Gentls. Criminals be warned. Jesus has said to keep his command before he departed.

James 2:14-26 Faith without works is dead.
John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
Matthew 19:16-26
And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” He said to him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

originally posted by: InvisibleLady
The thief who died on the cross beside Jesus did not live a life that glorified Jesus, however Jesus promised him as they hung together that he would be at Jesus’ side in Heaven. And Jesus replied, "I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise." Luke 23:43

The thieves were crucified together with Jesus. One of them directly ask Jesus to save him. You don't that get opportunity anytime and anywhere today. I mean, no one is going to crucify you beside Jesus, even if you murder billion people. Luke 23:43 is just a special case. But it doesn't has to be. You only need to admit and repent. If you steal, you will still be judged and no amount of Jesus name will save you, because you do not keep his command. Being a christian does not mean you can steal or slander or murder etc..

a reply to: DpatC

Meh. When Jesus comes back he's gonna kick ass; bullies first, .

originally posted by: Akragon

I don't believe Arius was the first to suggest such things...

You are right. The idea exist older than that. We can trace it back to Plato. But in christian world there is no other influential figure than Arius. We could make connection with Lucian of Antioch, but it was Arius' Arianism that eventually became the spotlight.

originally posted by: Akragon
his main point was that there was a point in time when Jesus did not exist... he was a created being

I'm not sure if it is due to Mandela effect or simply loss of memory. But I swear, Arius did propose preexisting Jesus at some point probably before his controversy with Athanasius of Alexandria. Maybe it was Lucian of Antioch. I'll check it again. If Arius did propose Jesus isn't eternal, then I will take back my claim. He was still wrong ( in my opinion ) that the Holy Spirit is higher rank than the father.

originally posted by: Akragon
And Arianism is only heretical to trinitarians... which is a heresy in its own right.

You know, it is irony that Anthanasius was exiled even though he had successfully won favor at Nicea Creed. But yeah everyone who involved in the creation of the creed including Ecumenical council will have a lot to answers. Considering they decided the unknown incomprehensible nature of god to christian world past and present, I believe they're all in very bad position.

originally posted by: Akragon
Arians still have a church... and consider themselves "Catholic"
OeeOee
arian-catholic.org...

Really? I'll check it to pay homage to Arius. I feel sorry for him for having to suffer the cruelty and injustice of Catholic and Orthodox Church. At least he knows now his enemies had been dealt accordingly. Justice is served.

a reply to: EasternShadow

Thank you for the responses!! Lots to think about, go over and investigate, which will take me time - aside from the responsibilities I have at home. So, give me a few days and I'll respond

Take care in the meantime

originally posted by: DpatC

Apolagies for the shortness of this thread but im stuck on something and Im looking for someone to point me in the right direction. Where in the Bible does it say that Jesus will return.

Christ will return with a sign in heaven, for it is written:

Acts 2:20 The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.

Matthew 24:30 "Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven.

There will be a Solar Eclipse (the sun will be turned to darkness) followed by a Lunar Eclipse (the moon to blood) before the return of Christ. This is the heavenly sign of Jesus Christ when He returns to earth.

The celestial bodies were specifically designated as a marker for signs, for it is written:

Genesis 1:14 Then God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years

..separate the day (Sun) from the night (Moon)

This is the sign in heaven before his imminent return:

The sun shall be turned to darkness - Total Solar Eclipse:

www.youtube.com...

The moon to blood - Lunar Eclipse:

www.youtube.com...

With these signs, you can be assured of Christs' second coming.

Although, we do not know exactly when, you can take a guess as to when by viewing NASA's solar eclipse catalog:

eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov...

All we need to look for are Total Solar Eclipse dates: (T = Total Solar Eclipse)

09546 2017 Aug 21 18:26:40 70 218 145 T
09551 2019 Jul 02 19:24:07 71 241 127 T
09554 2020 Dec 14 16:14:39 72 259 142 T
09556 2021 Dec 04 07:34:38 73 271 152 T
09561 2024 Apr 08 18:18:29 74 300 139 T
09566 2026 Aug 12 17:47:06 75 329 126 T
09568 2027 Aug 02 10:07:50 76 341 136 T
09570 2028 Jul 22 02:56:40 77 353 146 T
09576 2030 Nov 25 06:51:37 78 382 133 T
09581 2033 Mar 30 18:02:36 80 411 120 T
09583 2034 Mar 20 10:18:45 80 423 130 T
09586 2035 Sep 02 01:56:46 81 441 145 T
09591 2037 Jul 13 02:40:36 83 464 127 T
09594 2038 Dec 26 01:00:10 84 482 142 T
09596 2039 Dec 15 16:23:46 85 494 152 T
09599 2041 Apr 30 11:52:21 86 511 129 T
09601 2042 Apr 20 02:17:30 86 523 139 T
09606 2044 Aug 23 01:17:02 88 552 126 T
09608 2045 Aug 12 17:42:39 89 564 136 T
09610 2046 Aug 02 10:21:13 90 576 146 T
09616 2048 Dec 05 15:35:27 92 605 133 T
09623 2052 Mar 30 18:31:53 97 646 130 T

It could by any of these dates. We do not know. What we are only given are signs. However, we can follow the signs and calculate how many time does the Total Solar Eclipse occurs. By that information, we can make a guess as to which date it will be.