Why The Left Should Be Upset About The Cohen Raid

a reply to: Dfairlite

The whole event with the FBI seizure of trumps attorneys records, was approved by Mullers BOSS, Rosenstein, AND a JUDGE. Why do all of you act like laws were broken. It was all done legally, and it was not a damn break in, like trump says!

Also I am pretty sure this action is very similar to how Watergate evidence was found.

Like I said nothing illegal was done. 19 indictments, is not a witch hunt! Thank you Muller, for serving our country!

a reply to: Allaroundyou

What about Dershowitz? Does he also not understand how the legal system works, like me? Because he also thinks the 4th and 6th were violated. Egregiously.

a reply to: kurthall

Way to completely skip over the entirety of the OP and parrot your talking points. Well done. But you only get a B+ because you didn't bring up Faux news.

a reply to: JinMI

OMH, I didn't realize allred had her hands in this. Goodness, that's all you need to know to know it's more than likely nothing at all.

a reply to: Allaroundyou

A Real Man takes Every Opportunity to Spread his Seed , it's a Biological Drive that Our Creator Bestowed Upon Us . Only Social Morality and Convention Denies that Reality . Lest Ye be Judged Man ..........

a reply to: Zanti Misfit

We also have a biological drive to fight (even to the death) for our territory.

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: Zanti Misfit

We also have a biological drive to fight (even to the death) for our territory.

Your Point being ?

a reply to: Zanti Misfit

Just an observation.

a reply to: Dfairlite

Yes , the Penis Chaser is Ever Vigilant in Her pursuit of the Almighty Dollar ...

a reply to: Dfairlite

OK , but I am Missing the Point here . Please extrapolate .

a reply to: Dfairlite

It’s not out of the realm of possibilities. With that said, from my investigating this I found that Mueller came across something of interest but it was out of the realm of the investigation into Trump. He then gave the info Rosenstein. Then Rosenstein thought it was important and gave it to New York City prosecutors and they thought it was worth giving their findings to a judge in order to get a search warrant. The judge signed off on it and now here we are.

a reply to: Allaroundyou

The 4th amendment:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

The 6th amendment:

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

Guess whose communications just got siezed?? Who is cohen, how many clients does he have?

Now combine those with the 5th:

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Not just cohen's rights have been violated, all of his clients have been too.

To summarize, the 6th guarantees a right to an attorney. That right is useless if you can't talk openly to the attorney because you risk self incrimination (the 5th), which you do risk if all of an attorney's records of conversation can be siezed in violation of the 4th. Don't misunderstand, there are, of course, exceptions to attorney client privilege. I don't deny that one bit. However, having the government seize ALL of your records and promise to only look at some, is most certainly a huge overreach.

originally posted by: Dfairlite
First and foremost the constitution. The 4th and 6th amendments were violated pretty underhandedly. But we know they don't care about the constitution they want to get trump, regardless of cost. Remember, this is the ends justify the means crowd.

Second, they should want to get trump. That makes this pretty much impossible. Here's the thing. Cohen admitted to the payment, so it's solid evidence. BUT if it's evidence of anything illegal it's a simple campaign finance violation. It should have been ignored since there is a bigger investigation into russia going on (or is there....?) which involves the same lawyer and client. This makes it near impossible to go after trump for the bigger case.

The FBI ignores crimes all of the time that might jeopardize a bigger case. See mueller and the whitey bulger case for the most egregious of examples.

Now, this whole raid makes sense if you think that there is no russia investigation so they need anything, but otherwise, it torpedoes just about everything else they could try to get trump on.

Exceptions to 'privilege' include FRAUD.

Several carve-outs limit the reach of the attorney-client privilege, and it appears that a “crime-fraud” exception—which covers any communication containing evidence that a client or lawyer is committing or planning to commit criminal or fraudulent activity—was at play in this raid. Communications between the parties showing that the lawyer-client relationship “was used in furtherance of the alleged crime or fraud” also fall outside the protective umbrella of attorney-client privilege.

www.economist.com...

I had questions about this myself and had to go outside the country to get a cogent answer.

a reply to: FyreByrd

Read my post above yours...


Also, don't kid yourself, this isn't about cohen and the daniels payment. This is about parallel construction. For those unfamiliar, that's where the government catches you doing something illegal, illegally (mass surveillance, breaking attorney client privilege, etc), then makes up another story of how they caught you (we saw he had a tail light out and whaddaya know, he's got a trunk full of weed!). Basically they're hoping they can find evidence of trump wrongdoing in these communications (which one would normally admit or insinuate to their lawyer so their lawyer can best defend them) then they'll know where to look. After that they simply make up stories to go where they need to go for evidence. It's a total violation of the constitution.

originally posted by: Dfairlite
First and foremost the constitution. The 4th and 6th amendments were violated pretty underhandedly. .

first and foremost you dont know #.

these posts always crack me up.
on any given day in any given thread you lot are on here screaming about all these violations to the constitution.

i guess all people need is wiki or law.com to get a COMPLETE understanding of the constitution.

its a joke

you dont know #

have a great one

a reply to: TinySickTears

It would seem you're projecting. I studied law before deciding I didn't like the grind of it and changed course. Furthermore, Alan Dershowitz is making these same arguments So I'm in very good company with others who would "know #" but please continue projecting your ignorance onto others. It's fitting.

a reply to: Dfairlite

oooooooohhhhhh.

you studied law?

well #. i apologize sir.

you must know how everything works...

a reply to: TinySickTears

Obviously much more than you.

originally posted by: TinySickTears
a reply to: Dfairlite

oooooooohhhhhh.

you studied law?

well #. i apologize sir.

you must know how everything works...

Oh there is a problem with what has previously been protected classes. You have a couple that the government has no legal right to have access to. One of course is a lawyer and his client. The others are a priest and penitent, doctor and patient and Husband and Wife. These protected classes serves a purpose in society by making sure these relationships are maintained.

If I go to a priest and confess murder even if the priest wanted to testify he can't it's inadmissible and it's illegal to attempt to attain the information through say spying.. If I talk to a psychiatrist and admit murder once again inadmissible. They can't even ask to see my patient records. These protections were put in place to prevent the government from collecting this information. The violation doesn't say they can't use it it says they can't have it in the first place. So saying well there going to look through it and only use was pertinent to the case is a huge violation. Cohen needs to sue the FBI for violating his civil liberties but that aside. The damege this does to every day citizens is huge.

Now according to the new rules the government has the ability to determine what information is protected and what is not.

a reply to: Dfairlite

Excellent OP!!!

I suspect we're looking at "parallel construction" as well. They have nothing. They are desperate. They will do anything at this point to try to find (create) something to hold against Trump.

Even my son -- who is NOT a Trump supporter -- thinks this raid on Trump's attorney is vile and desperate on their part. I expect many people will, including a few "Never Trumpers."

It wouldn't even surprise me to find out in the end that it was Stormy and someone else (perhaps Cohen himself) who had the affair and wrote up the NDA with false names... but easy enough to claim it's Trump.