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The raid of Michael Cohen... where do we go from here?

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posted on Apr, 10 2018 @ 09:06 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

There is a color called "black", and there is a color called "white"...(and this has nothing to do with skin color!)...

...and there are an infinite number of shades, combinations of both black and white in between those two absolutes.

What you, and so many others, fail to see is the shades of grey in between. You want to see one or the other, but there is no balance for you, only black or white.




posted on Apr, 10 2018 @ 09:12 AM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

This is a lot of philosophical nonsense but no proof that this raid was improper. At the end of the day, you have to prove your assertions. You are choosing to believe that this raid was improper. So why is that? What makes you say that? Where is the evidence? Provide it. Otherwise you are just making an ass out of you and me.

PS: Also, lol at calling me a believer in duality. That is a rather dumb assumption you made about me as I am a HUGE advocate that the duality paradigm is false.
edit on 10-4-2018 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 10 2018 @ 09:17 AM
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originally posted by: keenmachine

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Allaroundyou

Why would you think Mueller would break any laws? Commit a crime after having a stellar career?
Past reputation doesn't matter in the era of trump?


haven't been around ATS in quite a while but do remember when I was that you were assuring everyone that Mueller's investigation was going to surely implicate Trump in collusion with Russia, which would lead to his impeachment. I used to question your certainty and never could get an answer on how you could be so sure. what is your stance on that now? It's all speculation and maybe Mueller is under pressure at this point to produce SOMETHING, anything to justify this whole goose chase and when it became clear that the investigation wasn't gonna produce what so many hoped it would, he got desperate, maybe even careless who knows? As I said before we are all speculating at this point, right?



How is it "clear" that the investigation isn't going to produce collusion with Russia?

Mueller isn't under pressure to produce SOMETHING - he's already secured any number of convictions and has Manafort tee'd up for May.

Mueller is a lifelong Republican with 40 years experience as a prosecutor. You don't think he doesn't know how to fold his cards and say "there's no evidence here"? He's also a war hero who put his life on the line for the country, I don't think he wants to rip it apart for fun.

I am cracked up by the Trumpers who parrot their leaders line "There's no collusion, they've found nothing ..." How do you know what they have found? They may have a sealed indictment on collusion for all we know.

Mueller told Trump he was a subject in an "obstruction" investigation regarding crimes while in office. He said nothing about crimes prior to coming to office, which is what a collusion crime would consist of. Nor did he say anything about financial crimes, of the type that the tax returns would demonstrate something amiss.

So, I don't understand why you think Mueller is desperate. I also don't understand why you don't seem to understand that judges see desperate cops every day, and they deny signing warrants for desperate cops every single day. They tell them they need more, they tell them it's all speculation, they tell them it's not necessary, it happens every single day. Yet, this judge didn't require more (maybe he/she did a month ago, maybe it was applied for a month ago and the judge said 'Go get more info before I sign," we don't know). So, why do you think a judge would sign a warrant for a desperate cop?

You think judge's sign every piece of paper in front of their faces? You think that a judge faced with a no knock warrant for the president's lawyer isn't going to demand some hard/fast answers as to what they have and why it is necessary?

It's so much easier to sit back and make pronouncements about Mueller, an American hero, lifelong Republican with 40 years of experience as a prosecutor.



posted on Apr, 10 2018 @ 09:50 AM
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Its cute in a way seeing people that probably for years before this would not trust anything a person with 40+ years experience in DC had to say, now believe those people are paragons of virtue so they can get that guy.

They were corrupt in DC before trump arrived they will be corrupt in DC after trump leaves, at least have the intellectual honesty to admit they are not doing anything in this investigation for the benefit of the people, it is purely for the benefit of power and money.



posted on Apr, 10 2018 @ 10:41 AM
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originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Allaroundyou

Why would you think Mueller would break any laws? Commit a crime after having a stellar career?
Past reputation doesn't matter in the era of trump?


Why do you think that Mueller hasn't committed any crimes?

Past reputation should matter a lot.. he was the cleanup boy for Bill Clinton's Waco "incident" and went left from there... it appears he has been complicit in whitewashing Hillary's dirty deeds as well.

Mueller thinks he is above those silly laws you talk about.

To him, he just makes them as he goes.


According to several articles I read, this was a very careful operation because it moved into client-attorney privilege. There are some situations where the immunity does not hold up (the client and attorney are involved in something illegal... and if Collins did indeed pay himself off or Stormy Daniels off from campaign contributions, that is misuse of election funds and is very much against the law. Since Trump directed how funds were to be spent, it also tangles him up in it.

The way they will look at the documents is also quite interesting because they actually can't just sit down and read them. There has to be a sorting of them (what's relevant and what isn't) and there are two or three methods to do this. It has to be done very carefully, and this is the point where the investigation is most likely to run into trouble. It will be interesting to find out what road they took.

Frankly, there was some hinky stuff in the financial statements that I saw (an extremely large sum of money given to a two person internet company (on the order of millions of dollars, here, with no line item explanation.))

If Trump is in the clear but Collins was acting improperly, this will clear Trump.



posted on Apr, 10 2018 @ 10:53 AM
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originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: Allaroundyou

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: Allaroundyou
a reply to: Lumenari
You know maybe he has a completely separate investigation into this. Kinda like Manafort. We just don’t know, either way it happened and Mueller got a judge or two to sign off on it.


SoOo... what would this have to do with Russian collusion again? You know, his reason for the investigation?

Has Carter Page been indited yet? At what point does this actually stop?

Because this investigation has not only gone off the rails, it is splitting the country apart.


Well this may have nothing to do with Russia collusion. IDK how the FBI could get involved with this separate investigation but it is not out of the realm of possibility.


So if it has nothing to do with Russian collusion (the actual scope of Mueller's investigation) are you OK with the unlimited resources of the government just fishing until they can put two half-truths and a possibility together to throw to the Dems for a possible basis for an impeachment?


First, personal note. I absolutely love your Avatar!!

Liberals seem to think, wrongly I might add, that if they can continue down this path, Trump gets impeached. In their very small minds, they think that this will be repayment for Billary getting her butt kicked, and they want revenge.

Like always though, they are not looking for the final results of these actions.

Trump is impeached. Pence takes over. Since he is VP, and he ran on the same topics as Trump, most of the Trump agenda will still take place.

Next, impeach Pence. They would try to spend the remaining time in office to impeach him too.

And guess what?

Hillary still ain't the damn president.

I am honestly tired of all this crap. Indict someone. Charge someone. Move on finally.

Oh, and grow up people!

Fred..



posted on Apr, 10 2018 @ 11:32 AM
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a reply to: Lumenari

This was a referral and this has nothing to do with Muller. What a referral is, is that an investigator (Muller) found a crime in his investigation, and he is obligated to report it. It also, due to how attorney client privilege works ,had to be overwhelming evidence of wrong doing of an ongoing crime, in which they believe attorney client privilege cannot be used here, as it cannot be used to cover up said on going crime. This is not a FISA warrant, Muller did not ask the judge for a warrant. On top of that, US Attorney of the Southern District of New York, Geoffrey Berman, is a Trump appointee, and he is the one who got the warrant.

Yeah, this is as bad as it gets for them, and it is real. The question is, what will it take for Trump supporters to see the evidence for what it was, and actually get insulted that they were lied to, and treated like rubes.



posted on Apr, 10 2018 @ 11:41 AM
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originally posted by: ShiftTrio
a reply to: Lumenari

This was a referral and this has nothing to do with Muller. What a referral is, is that an investigator (Muller) found a crime in his investigation, and he is obligated to report it. It also, due to how attorney client privilege works ,had to be overwhelming evidence of wrong doing of an ongoing crime, in which they believe attorney client privilege cannot be used here, as it cannot be used to cover up said on going crime. This is not a FISA warrant, Muller did not ask the judge for a warrant. On top of that, US Attorney of the Southern District of New York, Geoffrey Berman, is a Trump appointee, and he is the one who got the warrant.

Yeah, this is as bad as it gets for them, and it is real. The question is, what will it take for Trump supporters to see the evidence for what it was, and actually get insulted that they were lied to, and treated like rubes.


It's a dog and pony show to continue the witch hunt against Trump.



posted on Apr, 10 2018 @ 12:25 PM
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a reply to: jjkenobi
I see facts are not for you huh? What part of "US Attorney of the Southern District of New York, Geoffrey Berman, is a Trump appointee, and he is the one who got the warrant", didn't you get. The denial is astounding to me.



posted on Apr, 10 2018 @ 12:32 PM
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a reply to: ShiftTrio

at the same time we are waiting on a report from the IG that may indicate the FBI did not present the information for a fisa warrant in a truthful manner... but this time we are supposed to think everything is 100% on the up and up.


We really really need this fisa warrant fiasco to get cleared up, as long as this cloud hangs over them everything they do will be suspect on both sides of the aisle.



posted on Apr, 10 2018 @ 12:35 PM
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Rod Rosenstein: "I believe you should fire James Comey, Mr. President. I'll get a letter together for you."

(fast forward 2 weeks)

Rod Rosenstein: "President Trump fired James Comey last month! I'm appointing Special Prosecutor to get to the bottom of all this!"

edit on 4/10/2018 by carewemust because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 10 2018 @ 12:38 PM
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a reply to: Lumenari

This was completely consistent with the rule of law. To suggest otherwise only proves your ignorance.
This isn't about Russia, it's about an illegal 130,000 hush payment.



posted on Apr, 10 2018 @ 12:43 PM
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a reply to: Scrubdog

Seems it's just easier somehow to believe it's all a giant conspiracy to get trump. He doesn't realize how stupid that sounds as this investigation expands. People all over the world now are out to get trump. The world leaders around the globe and the cop on the corner they are all in on it. From the highest offices to the lowleyest. It's all just one great big planet wide conspiracy.



posted on Apr, 10 2018 @ 12:50 PM
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originally posted by: ShiftTrio
a reply to: jjkenobi
I see facts are not for you huh? What part of "US Attorney of the Southern District of New York, Geoffrey Berman, is a Trump appointee, and he is the one who got the warrant", didn't you get. The denial is astounding to me.

Uh no he did not get the warrant.
abcnews.go.com...



ABC News has learned that Geoffrey Berman, the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York, is recused from the Michael Cohen investigation.

Geoffrey Berman had nothing to do with this.


The recusal was approved by Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein. The raid of Cohen's handled by others in the office of the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York and approved by a federal judge.



posted on Apr, 10 2018 @ 12:51 PM
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It's a shame they didn't spend rhis much time, effort, and resources on the 911 investigation.
edit on 10-4-2018 by notquiteright because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 10 2018 @ 01:28 PM
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a reply to: shooterbrody

Right. The approval came directly from for Rosenstein.



posted on Apr, 10 2018 @ 04:38 PM
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Where does who go with this? How is this not due process? This is exactly due process - Mueller probably found something that needs investigating, it is out of the scope of his own investigation, and passed it along to the FBI. Since no one knows yet what exactly this is about, it's a bit early to say.. it's a witch hunt, it's not due process, etc. Probably is a good idea to wait and see what he found and passed along.

If during his investigation he turned up something which could be illegal and did nothing.. how is that right? It's as if people think the only correct answer to an investigation is to find nothing, no matter what he uncovers. And if he does find anything, it's already a predetermined conclusion that it must be a setup.. fake.. a lie.. because Trump wouldn't do anything illegal.



posted on Apr, 10 2018 @ 08:00 PM
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a reply to: Willtell

So you're now openly admitting it was a witch hunt?



posted on Apr, 10 2018 @ 08:01 PM
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a reply to: fleabit

Ask alan dershowitz. It's not due process because it violates amendments 4-6.



posted on Apr, 10 2018 @ 08:21 PM
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a reply to: Sillyolme

Who will be fired shortly. The letter has been written and signed. Just needs to be delivered.
edit on 10-4-2018 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)



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