F.B.I. Raids Office of Trump’s Longtime Lawyer Michael Cohen

a reply to: shooterbrody

It's not the source that's the issue.

a reply to: shooterbrody

It has not been said that trump in not under investigation. He is.
A subject of the investigation is ummm under investigation.

a reply to: shooterbrody

More crystal ball stuff.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: shooterbrody

It has not been said that trump in not under investigation. He is.
A subject of the investigation is ummm under investigation.

so then mueller is not investigating what he was directed to?
if he is not doing his job why is he around?

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Phage

Some folks are under the impression that every conversation trump had with Cohen was privileged. Or that every conversation someone has with their lawyer is privileged.
That's an error.

please show me a source for your opinion
I will add the link again I sourced previously in this thread
www.nolo.com...

The attorney-client privilege protects most communications between clients and their lawyers. But, according to the crime-fraud exception to the privilege, a client’s communication to her attorney isn’t privileged if she made it with the intention of committing or covering up a crime or fraud. Because the attorney-client privilege belongs to the client, the client’s intent determines whether the exception applies. Most courts will apply the exception even if the attorney had no knowledge of, and didn’t participate in, the actual crime or fraud.

hmm
the client's intent determines whether the exception applies.....

so tell me again how cohens random non campaign related (cause if it was in the campaign it is mullers and not ny feds) crime nullifies trumps privilege?

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: shooterbrody

More crystal ball stuff.

says the non source offering member....ssdd

originally posted by: Xcathdra

It doesnt exactly work that way. The government has to have evidence of a crime (IE probable cause) to obtain a warrant. You cant just sift thru documents in hopes of finding evidence of a crime. Search warrants have to be specific and the bar gets higher when its a lawyer.

Right. And any OTHER evidence they find of OTHER crimes is fully fair game and legal to pursue, including the NY AGs obligation to forward any evidence to Mueller that might be relevant to his investigation.

Trumps privilege stands. That is reinforced by the fact Trump is not involved with what is going on with Cohen.

What makes you believe "Trump is not involved with what is going on with Cohen"?

Cuz Trump said so? LOL

In other news, the FBI has already cloned several devices and phones and passed them back to Cohen and his Lawyers.

** Know what was interesting? The report I heard on the radio was that they passed pack 3 phones and one tablet, and they had about a dozen more phones they were in the process of cloning before passing back to him.

That means Cohen had something like 15 cell phones they seized?

He was up to some very shady business.

It has also been widely reported that he kept a digital library of secretly recorded conversations with the most damning stuff in his safe deposit box (which was also seized).

This is going to be a fascinating story to watch unfold.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: soberbacchus

i understand the president is not the target therefore the govt has no right to communications between trump and cohen as they share no crime

the special master will exclude all of the presidents info

Bizarre.

When someone is not a "Target" of the investigation, the government does not ignore evidence of criminal wrongdoing, they pursue that evidence.

The standard the "Special Master" applies?
Any conversations, material, evidence between Cohen and legitimate client that does NOT involve criminal or fraudulent activity at the time or the concealment of past criminal or fraudulent activity.

Any conversations, evidence, material with non-clients? Fair game.
Any conversations, evidence, material with clients that involve crimes or fraud or the cover-up of crimes or fraud? Fair Game.

They do not ignore evidence of criminal or fraudulent activity just because it was not originally specified in the warrant.

And YES, the NY AG is able to forward relevant admissible evidence to the Special Counsel office.

a reply to: soberbacchus

Right. And any OTHER evidence they find of OTHER crimes is fully fair game and legal to pursue, including the NY AGs obligation to forward any evidence to Mueller that might be relevant to his investigation.

no
the special master will hold privilege for any clients cohen had that are not involved with this alleged crime
the special master will stop the "fishing expedition" you expect to occur

a reply to: shooterbrody

Sure. But that doesn't clear trump from anything uncovered in this raid. Not at all.

a reply to: soberbacchus

I think you do not understand who the warrant was served on.

a reply to: shooterbrody

random cohen crime does not invalidate trumps privilege

Unless trump was also involved. Since trump was pretty much all the business Cohen had its likely it will be.
Why is Cohen taking the fifth? And why are trumps lawyers more worried about this than Muellers probe now?

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: shooterbrody

Sure. But that doesn't clear trump from anything uncovered in this raid. Not at all.

The ny feds won't ever see anything from trump, or do you have evidence trump and cohen committed a crime together? If trump was implicated mueller could not, by his sc mandate, have refered it to the ny feds. If mueller did it is cause for him to be fired as he is not doing his job. This was referred to ny ONLY because it was outside mueller scope. The probable cause in the referral used to get the search warrant was for cohen alone and outside the scope of the mueller investigation.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: soberbacchus

Right. And any OTHER evidence they find of OTHER crimes is fully fair game and legal to pursue, including the NY AGs obligation to forward any evidence to Mueller that might be relevant to his investigation.

no
the special master will hold privilege for any clients cohen had that are not involved with this alleged crime
the special master will stop the "fishing expedition" you expect to occur

No
The Special master will hold privilege for any clients Cohen had that are not involved with ANY crime.
Everything else does not fall under privilege.

Imagine the Special Master discovers Cohen is running a pedophilia ring? Special Master turns a blind eye?
OK Imagine the Special Master discovers Cohen has helped a client lie to the FBI?
How about Cohen helping a client in Tax Fraud?

It is not the Special Master's call to determine what crimes are bad or acceptable, they hand over ALL evidence of criminal or fraudulent activity whether someone is a Client or not.

Cohen's team can contest it's admissibility in court if they like.

Furthermore, the Special Master is not qualified to know what is RELEVANT EVIDENCE to ongoing investigations. She is one person vs. a full FBI and Grand Jury that has been investigating for months. She is not familiar with the details of the investigations.

That leaves her with one standard to apply.
Is it Attorney-Client material?

Yes -
(a) If it does not involve criminal activity or fraud (Privileged) Hold back.
(b) If it involves Cohen assisting in or covering up ANY criminal or fraudulent activity (Not Privileged) Pass along.

Not Attorney-Client? - Pass the evidence along in it's entirety for qualified investigators to determine it's relevance.

Any evidence the NY AG gets relevant to the Special Counsel they can and will share.

This aint politics, it is reality and the law.

originally posted by: shooterbrody

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: shooterbrody

Sure. But that doesn't clear trump from anything uncovered in this raid. Not at all.

The ny feds won't ever see anything from trump, or do you have evidence trump and cohen committed a crime together?

You can hope that, but seriously, it's TRUMP and COHEN for Gods sake. Cohen is Trumps Fixer.
The Odds they haven't conspired to commit or cover up frauds or crimes in the past decade are ZERO IMO.

a reply to: soberbacchus

Why are you acting as if there was no probable cause in the warrant issued?
The special master will give the government what is applicable to the warrant, and no more.
If the warrant applied to trump it would not be in ny.
No matter how much you guys want this to be a fishing expedition to get someone for things outside the probable cause for the warrant,it will not happen.

a reply to: soberbacchus

The Odds they haven't conspired to commit or cover up frauds or crimes in the past decade are ZERO IMO.

So you also have no basic understanding of the federal statute of limitations as well, or does decade have a different meaning in your world?

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: soberbacchus

I think you do not understand who the warrant was served on.

I think you do not understand the US Justice System.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: soberbacchus

The Odds they haven't conspired to commit or cover up frauds or crimes in the past decade are ZERO IMO.

So you also have no basic understanding of the federal statute of limitations as well, or does decade have a different meaning in your world?

Which crime are you referring to?
The Statute of Limitations varies for each crime.
To assume that Cohen and Trump only engaged in crimes or frauds a decade ago is a weird assumption.

a reply to: soberbacchus

To assume that Cohen and Trump only engaged in crimes or frauds a decade ago is a weird assumption.

Then why did you post this?

The Odds they haven't conspired to commit or cover up frauds or crimes in the past decade are ZERO IMO.

you have ceased making sense
good day