F.B.I. Raids Office of Trump’s Longtime Lawyer Michael Cohen

a reply to: SonOfThor

I'm not saying that so that's not my premise. Someone else said that. I think Mueller has plenty already. There are people awaiting trial there's one already in jail there are others who have agreed to cooperate for lesser charges so I'm not too worried that they have to keep searching. I'm pretty sure we're just tying up the loose ends here.

originally posted by: Scrubdog

originally posted by: DanDanDat

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Annee

What poetic justice if the porn star takes him down after all is said and done.

The problem with this Avenue is that it won't necessarily take him down. There was to much build up about "Russian Collusion" that anything less is going to be seen as suspected by Trumps supporters and a portion of the middle.... a sex scandal is the worst way to go because no one is going to care about a sex scandal except the opposition.

So anything less than Trump Russian collusion will come down to how many people in the middle can be swayed by a suspect investigation. I'd say not enough; it could even backfire if the middle throughs there hands up in disgust at the whole thing ... like they did in the 2016 elections that saw Trump win in the first place... despite all the sex scandals.

It would not be the sex that would being him down, it would e crimes in covering up the affair.

And, the Russian collusion matter is not off the table at all, despite what many Trump apologists here think. The line between "subject" and "target" is razor thin, and Mueller was speaking of Trump being a subject to crimes committed "while in office" - obstruction, and was NOT speaking of crimes committed PRIOR to taking office, they do believe they can indict a president for crimes committed prior to taking office. Muller did not address the investigation of crimes prior to taking office.

What we all have to remember is that the majority of the country is not nearly as engaged in the particulars of this investigation like the people on ATS that talk about and research it every day.

As such there is no "razor" thin lines in most people's minds; they dont have the time nor the desire to worry about every detail of the investigation and how all the little crumbs add up to "campaign finance abuse over a porn star" (just for example).

Public opinion of the investigation by those that matter (let's call them undecides) will not be kind if they try to go after Trump on something less important than ties to Russia and certainly not over a sex scandal. The opposition has already made up its mind; supporters have already made up their minds ... so it comes down to turn out for them. But for Trump to get in trouble over these investigations the reason has to be big enough for the quite majority to push their congressman and stormy just isnt big enough.

a reply to: dragonridr

I'm pretty sure to get that type of warrant both parties have to be suspected of being in a crime together. That's what it takes to break the attorney client privilege rule. The involvement of both in a crime.

Give me strength.

a reply to: JinMI

What?

originally posted by: DanDanDat

originally posted by: Scrubdog

originally posted by: DanDanDat

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Annee

What poetic justice if the porn star takes him down after all is said and done.

The problem with this Avenue is that it won't necessarily take him down. There was to much build up about "Russian Collusion" that anything less is going to be seen as suspected by Trumps supporters and a portion of the middle.... a sex scandal is the worst way to go because no one is going to care about a sex scandal except the opposition.

So anything less than Trump Russian collusion will come down to how many people in the middle can be swayed by a suspect investigation. I'd say not enough; it could even backfire if the middle throughs there hands up in disgust at the whole thing ... like they did in the 2016 elections that saw Trump win in the first place... despite all the sex scandals.

It would not be the sex that would being him down, it would e crimes in covering up the affair.

And, the Russian collusion matter is not off the table at all, despite what many Trump apologists here think. The line between "subject" and "target" is razor thin, and Mueller was speaking of Trump being a subject to crimes committed "while in office" - obstruction, and was NOT speaking of crimes committed PRIOR to taking office, they do believe they can indict a president for crimes committed prior to taking office. Muller did not address the investigation of crimes prior to taking office.

What we all have to remember is that the majority of the country is not nearly as engaged in the particulars of this investigation like the people on ATS that talk about and research it every day.

As such there is no "razor" thin lines in most people's minds; they dont have the time nor the desire to worry about every detail of the investigation and how all the little crumbs add up to "campaign finance abuse over a porn star" (just for example).

Public opinion of the investigation by those that matter (let's call them undecides) will not be kind if they try to go after Trump on something less important than ties to Russia and certainly not over a sex scandal. The opposition has already made up its mind; supporters have already made up their minds ... so it comes down to turn out for them. But for Trump to get in trouble over these investigations the reason has to be big enough for the quite majority to push their congressman and stormy just isnt big enough.

He's been walking around lying about even having an affair with stormy, AND, that he had no idea that Cohen made the deal with her. If it is proven that he lied about both, that he absolutely knew about the deal and directed the deal, that looks terrible.

No, the country doesn't care about him popping a porn star - he's a disgusting swamp lizard and has been since the early 90s, no news there. But to stand up and brazenly lie about not knowing anything about the deal, if it is shown that he DID ORCHESTRATE the deal, and that they did it illegally through wire fraud/bank fraud, then that will cause him real problems.

Because then what else has he lied about? Everything. He's always lied.

It's not like I started hating Trump when he ran for the Republican nomination. I couldn't stand Trump when he was a democrat, best buddies with the Clintons. He's always been a liar, a fake, a braggart, a guy out for himself and only himself, and he's been known to associate with the Russian mob since back in the early 2000s.

It will ALL come out.

a reply to: shooterbrody

Yeah when I appear before a judge i only want him to consider evidence presented by my friends. Lol.

I'm pretty sure Dershowitz is well aware that a judge already did look and decided to issue the warrant. And he's just flapping his wings and making noise.

a reply to: Sillyolme

insider.foxnews.com...

"If this were Hillary Clinton [having her lawyer's office raided], the ACLU would be on every TV station in America jumping up and down," he said. "The deafening silence of the ACLU and civil libertarians about the intrusion into the lawyer-client confidentiality is really appalling."

It is odd to me that this is so far out there, lifelong dems like Dershowitz opinions have no standing.
He is only yale law after all, worked under SCOTUS justices, but he knows nothing.........

originally posted by: DanDanDat
Public opinion of the investigation by those that matter (let's call them undecides) will not be kind if they try to go after Trump on something less important than ties to Russia and certainly not over a sex scandal. The opposition has already made up its mind; supporters have already made up their minds ... so it comes down to turn out for them. But for Trump to get in trouble over these investigations the reason has to be big enough for the quite majority to push their congressman and stormy just isnt big enough.

Guilt isn't determined by public opinion though.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Sillyolme

insider.foxnews.com...

"If this were Hillary Clinton [having her lawyer's office raided], the ACLU would be on every TV station in America jumping up and down," he said. "The deafening silence of the ACLU and civil libertarians about the intrusion into the lawyer-client confidentiality is really appalling."

It is odd to me that this is so far out there, lifelong dems like Dershowitz opinions have no standing.
He is only yale law after all, worked under SCOTUS justices, but he knows nothing.........

Fun fact: Contrary to what you clearly think, Democrats aren't lock step in every decision another Democrat makes. They are allowed to disagree with each other

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Metallicus

The problem is that Mueller's team is ideologically brainwashed into attacking Trump.

That is an accusation that is incompatible with reality.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

He investigated 911 and put John Gotti the Teflon Don away.
He's a purple heart recipient.
He volunteered for duty in Vietnam after graduating from Harvard. He was completely exempt from the draft but volunteered to serve when a good friend from his high school days was killed during his own second tour.
He got a medal of valor in combat decoration when he disregarded his own safety to make sure every man in his platoon was brought out of harms way. Taking a bullet in his thigh from sniper fire.
After serving in the military he wasn't done . He wanted to continue to serve his country and joined the FBI where he had a very successful career. He was chosen by George W. Busy to be director of the FBI and eight days after his confirmation he was faced with the 911 attacks on America. He was retained by Barrack Obama who requested Congress write a special law allowing him to extend his tenure for an additional two years.
He was the longest serving FBI director since J. Edgar Hoover.
And again I'll point out how everybody thought he was an excellent choice for special counsel. And it's only now that he's getting too close to trump that some are calling for his removal.
Y'all are so eager to see justice served in regards to anything Clinton. I say let justice be served here as well.
If he's so innocent then no worries. But everybody knows he's dirty and that given time they will find crimes. Everybody knows he's always had shady business dealings.
It's common knowledge he is eager to build a hotel in Moscow. According to his own son, he was getting money from Russia when he couldn't get financed by any U.S. bank.
It's reported he was dealing with sanctioned banks and it's been alleged that there may be Russian money laundering.
There's bound to be hard evidence if those allegations are true. You all are afraid that they will find something because you know the man.

He also successfully prosecuted and convicted Panamanian Dictator Manuel Noriega.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Sillyolme

insider.foxnews.com...

"If this were Hillary Clinton [having her lawyer's office raided], the ACLU would be on every TV station in America jumping up and down," he said. "The deafening silence of the ACLU and civil libertarians about the intrusion into the lawyer-client confidentiality is really appalling."

It is odd to me that this is so far out there, lifelong dems like Dershowitz opinions have no standing.
He is only yale law after all, worked under SCOTUS justices, but he knows nothing.........

Dershowitz is a Trump Sycophant and mouthpiece.

His outspoken defense of all things Trump usually follows a weekend spent with Trump at Mar Largo.

That's just reality.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Another fun fact: It is the FEC's job to investigate campaign finance infractions.

Interesting we have yet to hear from the FEC.

a reply to: soberbacchus

"Trump defenders"

Your funny. Show me where I defended Trump at all--I've been discussing the process of warrants as it pertains to this raid and the possible reasons why.

Actually, don't...that would take details, and that's boring.

a reply to: soberbacchus

hls.harvard.edu...

Professor Alan M. Dershowitz is Brooklyn native who has been called “the nation’s most peripatetic civil liberties lawyer” and one of its “most distinguished defenders of individual rights,” “the best-known criminal lawyer in the world,” “the top lawyer of last resort,” “America’s most public Jewish defender” and “Israel’s single most visible defender – the Jewish state’s lead attorney in the court of public opinion.” He is the Felix Frankfurter Professor of Law at Harvard Law School. Dershowitz, a graduate of Brooklyn College and Yale Law School, joined the Harvard Law School faculty at age 25 after clerking for Judge David Bazelon and Justice Arthur Goldberg.

Yea that looks like the description of a sycophant.
It appears to me Mr. Dershowitz has exactly the experience to comment on client attorney interactions and the legal protection of such.

a reply to: Aazadan

I understand the warrant process and why this might have happened (we don't know, yet...unless I've missed something since last night).

At the time that I posted that comment, I was under the impression that this was tied to the special counsel...I obviously got more information about how Mueller was tied to this raid immediately after that. I fully understand what has happened, at least as much information as we have been told thus far, which isn't much. Thanks for the info, though

As for your last two paragraphs, that's just speculation, but we will definitely see, because it is possible.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Another fun fact: It is the FEC's job to investigate campaign finance infractions.

Interesting we have yet to hear from the FEC.

Who said that this has to do with campaign finance infractions? I haven't heard of any charges leveled against Cohen yet. Have you? I've heard people making assumptions and guesses based on the current news cycles but nothing concrete. Furthermore, the FEC doesn't execute warrants anyways.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: soberbacchus

hls.harvard.edu...

Professor Alan M. Dershowitz is Brooklyn native who has been called “the nation’s most peripatetic civil liberties lawyer” and one of its “most distinguished defenders of individual rights,” “the best-known criminal lawyer in the world,” “the top lawyer of last resort,” “America’s most public Jewish defender” and “Israel’s single most visible defender – the Jewish state’s lead attorney in the court of public opinion.” He is the Felix Frankfurter Professor of Law at Harvard Law School. Dershowitz, a graduate of Brooklyn College and Yale Law School, joined the Harvard Law School faculty at age 25 after clerking for Judge David Bazelon and Justice Arthur Goldberg.

Yea that looks like the description of a sycophant.
It appears to me Mr. Dershowitz has exactly the experience to comment on client attorney interactions and the legal protection of such.

Why do I get the feeling you only care about this guy because he is saying something you agree with?

originally posted by: Wayfarer

The warrant was authorized by Geoffrey Bergen: Federal Judge of the Southern District of NY (appointed by Trump himself), so logically it stands to reason Mueller would have provided adequate evidence to Bergen to allow for the raid (implying that he's got a fair bit of damning evidence that some kind of malfeasance has occurred already).

I would agree, but we have been increasingly shown that the judicial process is tainted, so I can't rely on logic anymore to form assumptions--my default now is to wait and see. Speculate, sure, but wait and see in the end.

But again, from what I can gather, Trump isn't really a signatory in any of the Stormy Daniels "hush money" (NDA), so if there is something going on, it's probably only against Cohen and, once again, won't have much, if anything, to do with Trump (unless, maybe, there's some secret fund funneling going on, and the money ends up coming from Trump through Cohen).

Like I've said starting with the Manafort/Gates indictments, if people are doing things that are illegal, it needs to be discovered and processed through the legal system. My concern is how out-of-control the special counsel might be getting, and I still have concerns about the scope of the investigation as approved at its genesis. I'm also concerned that this may be a backhanded way to try and legally obtain documents in an effort to keep digging at Trump--documents that they could not have legally obtained otherwise, unless they went after his lawyer.

Again, if that's the case, I find the behavior and motivation behind Mueller to be a disgusting abuse of the legal system.