F.B.I. Raids Office of Trump’s Longtime Lawyer Michael Cohen

originally posted by: Scrubdog

originally posted by: DanDanDat

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Annee

What poetic justice if the porn star takes him down after all is said and done.

The problem with this Avenue is that it won't necessarily take him down. There was to much build up about "Russian Collusion" that anything less is going to be seen as suspected by Trumps supporters and a portion of the middle.... a sex scandal is the worst way to go because no one is going to care about a sex scandal except the opposition.

So anything less than Trump Russian collusion will come down to how many people in the middle can be swayed by a suspect investigation. I'd say not enough; it could even backfire if the middle throughs there hands up in disgust at the whole thing ... like they did in the 2016 elections that saw Trump win in the first place... despite all the sex scandals.

It would not be the sex that would being him down, it would e crimes in covering up the affair.

And, the Russian collusion matter is not off the table at all, despite what many Trump apologists here think. The line between "subject" and "target" is razor thin, and Mueller was speaking of Trump being a subject to crimes committed "while in office" - obstruction, and was NOT speaking of crimes committed PRIOR to taking office, they do believe they can indict a president for crimes committed prior to taking office. Muller did not address the investigation of crimes prior to taking office.

Again....exactly what crimes?

a reply to: Xcathdra

You seem like a pretty smart guy. Stop living in the past. Trump is President. Trump is under investigation.
If he is as innocent as you all seem to believe, it will be proven, and you can all be vindicated. In the meantime, try and not get annoyed because I don't want to talk about HRC.

K?

originally posted by: Harpua

originally posted by: mkultra11

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Annee

What poetic justice if the porn star takes him down after all is said and done.

Takes him down for what?

Do you think Cohen will take the heat for illegal campaign contributions on top of not getting "paid" for the Stormy Daniels payoff? Cohen could be disbarred from what I saw on the internet (lol)... not sure if thats true or not, but I'd imagine Cohen might change his tune while under oath.

Doubt that would result in taking down a president though

Yes , I can see Cohen getting in some kind of trouble possibly for somethi g stupid. Its more the dredging trumps ten year old alleged affair through the media on a constant basis.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: IAMTAT

Hmmm...this is a pretty big thing, both in what may be uncovered, but more as to why Mueller felt a need to do this. Attorney-client privilege is one of the types of communications held in highest regard in the eyes of the law.

I'm very interested into why this was an okay thing to do under the scope of Mueller's investigation, or if this will be the thing that takes his actions too far. I'm of the belief that this investigation has far exceeded the original intent for which it was petitioned and approved--this step may lead to its end.

We'll see.

Mueller didn't ok violating privilege, he doesn't have that power. What he could do, is turn over documents he found relating to other crimes to New York, which is what he did. From there, the state took the proof from their investigation to convince a judge, alongside justice department officials, that there was imminent danger in losing evidence, and that it would need to be seized, and that violating privilege is ok. That is an EXTREMELY high bar, which means there was already damning evidence, and this was just confirmation of it... furthermore, it means that what's in those communications is a conspiracy to commit or cover up a crime.

Cohen is going to be in jail before Manafort is, and this will directly implicate Trump as well.

It is extremely serious and will result in a fast tracked Supreme Court case, if a state can prosecute a sitting President. I bet Trump wishes he divested himself from his company now... all those assets are about to be frozen.

a reply to: Aazadan

Interesting assessment. I read somewhere tonight that Trump is Cohen's ONLY client. Isn't that odd? I wonder if he retained him on payroll, gave him an annual salary. Also, I think it's odd that an attorney his age would have to get a second mortgage for $130,000.

Neither here nor there. Just thinking out loud.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
There has even been an increased attempt to try and smear him. But really, his record is pretty friggin eagle scout clean and his civic duty and dedication to country has been part of his character going back to his teen years. I am certain there will not come a time when he is fired for cause. It will take a Saturday night massacre to make that happen. Do you see that happening? And how do you think that will end?

The speculation is that Pruitt hasn't been fired, because he's already been confirmed. Trump can "put out" two fires at once by moving him from the EPA to AG, getting rid of Sessions, then having Pruitt fire Rosenstein, and continue down the line until someone fires Mueller.

In return, Pruitt gets out of the hot seat, and gets even more power. Then Mueller has to be reinstated by Congress which may or may not happen. Of course, since Mueller has been working with various states for months, and state charges are outside of Trumps power... none of that may end up mattering.

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: Aazadan

Interesting assessment. I read somewhere tonight that Trump is Cohen's ONLY client. Isn't that odd? I wonder if he retained him on payroll, gave him an annual salary. Also, I think it's odd that an attorney his age would have to get a second mortgage for $130,000.

Neither here nor there. Just thinking out loud.

The whole thing could be a classic set-up.

Lots of deep implanted imposters and traitors everywhere.

🧐

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: Aazadan

Interesting assessment. I read somewhere tonight that Trump is Cohen's ONLY client. Isn't that odd? I wonder if he retained him on payroll, gave him an annual salary. Also, I think it's odd that an attorney his age would have to get a second mortgage for $130,000.

Neither here nor there. Just thinking out loud.

The whole thing could be a classic set-up.

Lots of deep implanted imposters and traitors everywhere.

🧐

Wooooooooo !

a reply to: Scrubdog

Again or the simplest answer is the most logical one.

originally posted by: JBurns
I don't see any relation to Stephanie Clifford though. Most likely, Trump never even knew about her until she started violating the NDA. Thing is, people like Trump aren't notified/involved with every single woman that claims to have had sexual relations with him. Such claims are common for famous people, and sometimes it is best just to pay them to shut their mouth instead of trying to dispel the claims.

Most likely, she's so upset about him not being a signatory because she intended to use the NDA/payment as some sort of "evidence" about her statement. Fact is, it proves nothing. It doesn't prove its true, only inconvenient for someone running for POTUS.

And even if it is true, who cares? $100k is pocket change to Trump. Him and his lawyers are way too smart to use campaign funds for this purpose. 99.9% probability the lawyer paid it out of his own pocket without even consulting POTUS. This is very common for lawyers of such high profile and extremely rich clients, like Mr. Trump. Otherwise, Trump pulled it out of his own personal wallet and paid in cash. No untoward dealings needed. This is the President who doesn't accept his salary, remember? If he cared about that denomination of money, he wouldn't reject a very similar salary.

What is funny though is that Mueller's rogue team has listened to accusations on fake news CNN/Rachel Maddow and exploited them. Where's ANY evidence that money came from the campaign? I am waiting

Cohen paid Stormy by taking a $130,000 line of credit against his house. This is legal but highly unethical, it would get him disbarred. The issue is in how Cohen was then repaid, by all accounts he was reimbursed by Trumps campaign which runs afoul of money laundering and campaign finance laws which are felonies.

As far as the NDA goes, there's a catch 22 here. If it comes out that Cohen was signing legally binding contracts on Trumps behalf without consulting him, then it means they aren't enforceable. This not only frees Stormy Daniels to say whatever she wants, but it frees every other person Cohen has negotiated a contract for on Trumps behalf. If it turns out that Trump did sign the contract, then by opening his mouth, he has rendered it null and void due to the stipulations in it and in doing so, it opens up Cohen (and Trump if he was party to it) to having tried to commit blackmail, not to mention practicing law in states he wasn't licensed in Cohens case.

Trump may still get out of this if Cohen takes all the blame, but the question is no longer about if Cohen is going to jail or getting disbarred. It's a question of how many years Cohen is getting, on just state charges. He's potentially looking at life in prison here.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: theantediluvian

Not even close to Muellers assigned purpose.

This is exactly what Scalia warned about with special prosecutors.

That's why Mueller didn't do this. He turned over the evidence he turned up to the proper authorities and let them handle it. When you turn up a crime and it's outside of your jurisdiction, you turn what you know over to those responsible rather than turn a blind eye to it.

a reply to: Sillyolme


No he ist clean boy scout. he has had no less than 2 prosecutions thrown out for bad evidence.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: angeldoll

Client/Lawyer privilege does not apply when it is believed the attorney has committed a crime.

What was the crime?

Paying off a woman off isn't one.

Because if it was so many guys would be in jail.

Bill Clinton among them.

Bank fraud, campaign finance violations, blackmail, conspiracy to commit a crime, and likely others... all of this stemming from a simple civil matter. It takes a real competent individual to take a civil suit, and then in the process of trying to cover it up, turn it into numerous criminal matters.

originally posted by: burgerbuddy
Judge Nap just said that the bank fraud has/might something to do with not telling the bank he got the money from, 130k, the real reason for it.

I didn't know that you had to tell the bank what you are using refinance for.

Shouldn't be any of their biz?

If I refinance and want to blow it on hookers and coke in Columbia, so what?

Trump was running for office at the time. Coordinating to pay $130,000 on his behalf is considered a gift. That goes over the normal finance limits, and is a pretty major felony.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: soberbacchus

Doesn't matter if he did.

He self financed some of it.

It matters quite a bit because of limitations on gifts to people who are running for office. That's why there's a campaign finance angle to this.

originally posted by: mkultra11
a reply to: Scrubdog

After all that. It has nothing to do with Trump. Name the law he broke which makes him a criminal? Its the disappointment in Trump haters that really make me laugh.

Attorney/Client privilege wouldn't be violated unless the client was also complicit here, and actively working with the lawyer to commit and cover up a crime.

originally posted by: mkultra11

originally posted by: Harpua

originally posted by: mkultra11

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Annee

What poetic justice if the porn star takes him down after all is said and done.

Takes him down for what?

Do you think Cohen will take the heat for illegal campaign contributions on top of not getting "paid" for the Stormy Daniels payoff? Cohen could be disbarred from what I saw on the internet (lol)... not sure if thats true or not, but I'd imagine Cohen might change his tune while under oath.

Doubt that would result in taking down a president though

Yes , I can see Cohen getting in some kind of trouble possibly for somethi g stupid. Its more the dredging trumps ten year old alleged affair through the media on a constant basis.

It's not so much the affair, but the payout. In other words, were RNC funds being used to pay her off (or other funds)? There's a bunch of hinky financial thing that they're looking into. The fact that he had sex with a porn star is not really relevant here... the payment fr hush money is.

The FBI is interested in Cohen’s payments to Stormy Daniels, among other topics, and Monday’s raid resulted in seizures of emails, tax documents, business records and communications with Trump, according to the Times.

Trump last week: "You'll have to ask Michael Cohen."

FBI today: raids Michael Cohen's office

Trump: No, not like that

Source

a reply to: Byrd

His relationship with the Stormy is still at the center of this. As you said, it's all about the money, but who spent the money and why directly relates to that NDA contract. There's two possibilities here:
1. Cohen signed a contract on his clients behalf without telling him. And was then paid by the campaign for doing so.
2. Cohen signed a contract with his clients knowledge, and was then paid.

The main difference is if Trump was or wasn't involved in a coverup.

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: mkultra11

originally posted by: Harpua

originally posted by: mkultra11

originally posted by: Sillyolme a reply to: Annee What poetic justice if the porn star takes him down after all is said and done.

Takes him down for what?

Do you think Cohen will take the heat for illegal campaign contributions on top of not getting "paid" for the Stormy Daniels payoff? Cohen could be disbarred from what I saw on the internet (lol)... not sure if thats true or not, but I'd imagine Cohen might change his tune while under oath. Doubt that would result in taking down a president though

Yes , I can see Cohen getting in some kind of trouble possibly for somethi g stupid. Its more the dredging trumps ten year old alleged affair through the media on a constant basis.

It's not so much the affair, but the payout. In other words, were RNC funds being used to pay her off (or other funds)? There's a bunch of hinky financial thing that they're looking into. The fact that he had sex with a porn star is not really relevant here... the payment fr hush money is.

The FBI is interested in Cohen’s payments to Stormy Daniels, among other topics, and Monday’s raid resulted in seizures of emails, tax documents, business records and communications with Trump, according to the Times.

But they aren't interested when DNC/RNC members use taxpayer funded slush funds to payoff their harassment victims.
Just Trump since Hillary was supposed to win.