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Are illegal immigration supporters complicit in abuse of undocumented people?

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posted on Apr, 6 2018 @ 08:59 PM
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So this article highlights one aspect of illegal immigration that I have been mulling over for a couple years now, which is this:


If someone is in the country illegally they stay as far away from "the law" as possible to avoid being sent back. This puts them in the most potentially dangerous position for exploitation and abuse at the hands of those who employ or help them.


From the article:




Worsham said the plant hired undocumented workers who were paid in cash and subject to harsh conditions, including long hours without overtime and exposure to bleach and other chemicals without protective eyewear.




I understand, at least in part, the desire of many to help those less fortunate who come from or flee from countries with less opportunity or even danger. However how many illegal immigrants are merely trading one form of abuse or danger for another? I can even imagine some might say "yes but they are trading a greater form of abuse or danger for a lesser one". and I agree with that as well.....however in PRINCIPLE it is still abuse and exploitation no?

So what is the overarching moral/ethical principle supporters of illegal immigration are appealing to in order to feel okay about situations like this which clearly illustrate how illegal immigrants might just be jumping from the frying pan into the fire? After all, if they are caught and sent back isn't it reasonable to assume they will be going back to a much worse situation than they left behind? Especially if they sold or gave up everything they had in order to get here?

Also, just to pre-empt any attempts to derail this into some greater philosophical meandering, I know all about the ideal that "no human should be illegal" and that national borders are a construct. However I'd really appreciate it if we could stay on topic so thanks in advance.


Please enlighten me.




posted on Apr, 6 2018 @ 09:16 PM
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a reply to: tribal


Who supports illegal immigration?

I think plenty of people support DACA, but I don't know anyone who supports illegal immigration.



posted on Apr, 6 2018 @ 09:40 PM
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originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: tribal


Who supports illegal immigration?

I think plenty of people support DACA, but I don't know anyone who supports illegal immigration.


Perhaps you have not seen the news or checked in with the Democratic party since... Reagan?

And for the OP... S&F. More people should understand that if you put yourself in a position where you are considered illegal, then odds are you will fall deeper into illegal activities.


edit on 6-4-2018 by Lumenari because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 6 2018 @ 09:46 PM
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a reply to: Lumenari


Please cite a news story or two that confirms that the Democratic Party's platform supports illegal immigration, not including the DACA Dreamers.



posted on Apr, 6 2018 @ 09:52 PM
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OSHA requires the employer provide PPE (personal protective equipment). So unless the illegals are the only ones employed the equipment should be there on site. Especially something like safety goggles or face shields.



posted on Apr, 6 2018 @ 09:53 PM
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originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Lumenari


Please cite a news story or two that confirms that the Democratic Party's platform supports illegal immigration, not including the DACA Dreamers.


Please turn on the television.

Or read up on contemporary American history.

I'm not going to have some kind of odd argument with you that the sky is blue.

If you believe that it isn't the case, God bless your soul and have a nice day.




posted on Apr, 6 2018 @ 09:55 PM
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a reply to: Lumenari


In other words, you got nothing?



posted on Apr, 6 2018 @ 10:05 PM
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a reply to: tribal

Your OP is a loaded question.

Wanting a way for illegals to gain legal status isn't really supporting illegal immigration but the legalization of illegals.



posted on Apr, 6 2018 @ 10:33 PM
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originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: tribal


Who supports illegal immigration?

I think plenty of people support DACA, but I don't know anyone who supports illegal immigration.


Perhaps you have not seen the news or checked in with the Democratic party since... Reagan?

And for the OP... S&F. More people should understand that if you put yourself in a position where you are considered illegal, then odds are you will fall deeper into illegal activities.



You probably shouldnt bring up Reagan when trying to take the moral high ground in illegal immigration topics.


Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986


The bill he signed granted amnesty to many undocumented people.



posted on Apr, 6 2018 @ 10:37 PM
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originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Lumenari


In other words, you got nothing?



I have plenty, Snookie.

Are you saying that Democrats do not champion Amnesty?

The Amnesty Lobby, aka the Democratic Party, Drops any Pretense of Supporting Immigration Enforcement

Democrats' Immigration Platform Focuses on Amnesty, Calls for 'Limits' to Legal Immigration


“Democrats believe immigration is not just a problem to be solved, it is a defining aspect of the American character and our shared history.”

-Democratic Party Platform

Democrats are fighting for every immigrant who feels threatened by Donald Trump’s election.


Democrats.Org

Here is where you make the point that Amnesty of illegal immigrants has nothing to do with illegal immigrants.

And this is why I was blowing you off earlier.

Because it isn't a debate.

It's embarrassing.



posted on Apr, 6 2018 @ 10:46 PM
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originally posted by: Pyle

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: tribal


Who supports illegal immigration?

I think plenty of people support DACA, but I don't know anyone who supports illegal immigration.


Perhaps you have not seen the news or checked in with the Democratic party since... Reagan?

And for the OP... S&F. More people should understand that if you put yourself in a position where you are considered illegal, then odds are you will fall deeper into illegal activities.



You probably shouldnt bring up Reagan when trying to take the moral high ground in illegal immigration topics.


Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986


The bill he signed granted amnesty to many undocumented people.


Yes... in return for a Mexico/Southern Border wall. Which the Democrats agreed to. And then didn't do.

So you pointed out that a Republican President acted on good faith with the Democratic party and then the Dems screwed him.

Thanks for the history lesson.. I was there too though.
edit on 6-4-2018 by Lumenari because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 6 2018 @ 10:46 PM
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a reply to: Lumenari


First of all, those articles are incredibly misleading and bias. Second, the "amnesty" that they're talking about is about DACA!

The Democratic platform doesn't support illegal immigration. Just because their version of immigration reform doesn't match Trump's, that doesn't mean that they support illegal immigration.



posted on Apr, 6 2018 @ 10:54 PM
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originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Lumenari


First of all, those articles are incredibly misleading and bias. Second, the "amnesty" that they're talking about is about DACA!

The Democratic platform doesn't support illegal immigration. Just because their version of immigration reform doesn't match Trump's, that doesn't mean that they support illegal immigration.


You poor thing.

So... anything that disproves you is incredibly misleading and bias. (BTW, the word you are looking for is biased")

The Democratic platform absolutely supports illegal immigration. Because they are all Progressive now (youtube search obama, hillary, bernie and progressive) and realize that illegal immigration is the means to overload and destroy the welfare system.

They create a disaster, they come in with the solution to the disaster. Usually involving more government control. Because that is what it really is about.

I don't expect you to understand my post.

What I would like you to do is look up and read Rules for Radicals and understand it.

Then we can actually talk.




posted on Apr, 6 2018 @ 11:30 PM
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a reply to: Lumenari




The Democratic platform absolutely supports illegal immigration.


That is absolutely incorrect. The Democratic Platform supports immigration reform and a clean DACA bill. Obviously, this subject is too complicated for you to wrap your mind around.

/poor snookie out



posted on Apr, 7 2018 @ 12:13 AM
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originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: Pyle

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: tribal


Who supports illegal immigration?

I think plenty of people support DACA, but I don't know anyone who supports illegal immigration.


Perhaps you have not seen the news or checked in with the Democratic party since... Reagan?

And for the OP... S&F. More people should understand that if you put yourself in a position where you are considered illegal, then odds are you will fall deeper into illegal activities.



You probably shouldnt bring up Reagan when trying to take the moral high ground in illegal immigration topics.


Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986


The bill he signed granted amnesty to many undocumented people.


Yes... in return for a Mexico/Southern Border wall. Which the Democrats agreed to. And then didn't do.

So you pointed out that a Republican President acted on good faith with the Democratic party and then the Dems screwed him.

Thanks for the history lesson.. I was there too though.


Where is border wall in said law?

Link to the Law

I dont see anything about a wall or fence in the 1986 bill nor could I find any documents with a simple google search to back up that a wall was a negotiating piece for the 1986 bill. Do you have a source?



posted on Apr, 7 2018 @ 01:14 AM
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originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Lumenari


First of all, those articles are incredibly misleading and bias. Second, the "amnesty" that they're talking about is about DACA!

The Democratic platform doesn't support illegal immigration. Just because their version of immigration reform doesn't match Trump's, that doesn't mean that they support illegal immigration.




They want to abolish ICE.

What's that mean?

They don't want immigration enforcement.

Watch the first 15 mins.




edit on 4 7 2018 by burgerbuddy because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2018 @ 01:37 AM
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a reply to: burgerbuddy

Political fluff. Yeah, instead of ICE you'll have FIRE (Foreign Illegal Removal Enforcement), like it makes a difference to the person getting deported what the acronym on the shoulder patch means.

I guess the only good thing for illegals is that since it wouldn't involve customs, there will be butt-loads of illegals getting through Trump's wall in shipping containers. They will be to immigration what big pharma is to the war on drugs.



posted on Apr, 7 2018 @ 06:51 AM
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a reply to: tribal

One of the arguments for illegals is Americans wouldn't work for slave wages in those conditions. So they must support it, otherwise if things were improved then now Americans would do it. So they want the abuse to happen.



posted on Apr, 7 2018 @ 07:10 AM
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a reply to: burgerbuddy




They want to abolish ICE.


There is nothing in the Democratic Platform that calls for the elimination of ICE. You video is unavailable.



posted on Apr, 7 2018 @ 07:14 AM
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In short: yes.

If you look back a few years in my posting history, you will see i was pro immigration, and didn't really care one way or the other about illegals. I know many, and I like almost all of them. Rarely have had issue with any, and when i did it was folks here legally on a visa from Juarez wanting to fistfight for merchandise at Cielo Vista Mall in El Paso.

Then I noticed the way they lived. Good people barely making it. And it kinda made me aware of the indentured servitude that they had entered into (metaphorically, obviously...but not in all cases).

Now i am anti illegal immigration, both from the human rights perspective as well as the perspective of imported voter bloc type shenanigans.




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