A perfect response to the to the state of politics here on ATS

originally posted by: odzeandennz
a reply to: Southern Guardian

With a topic like this, you should have been more prepared for the ad-homs, and the 'so you mean this when you wrote that' or 'you must be that if you say this one thing' , and the leaps of assumptions and the name calling....

Discussions without personal attacks are far and fewer on ats....wonder why deny ignorance is silently eradicated from the site's ethos and slogan... or there aren't any more guest speakers or weekly shows...

Good luck.

But yet you ignore all the same from the OP?

You should add an additional 🚫 over your avatar, because when I read your posts, it's more like "No No BS."

In other words, it's BS.

No hard feelings.

a reply to: 3n19m470

It looks to me like he did go for the middle ground and it didn't work out. I'm apt to shoot my mouth off and regret it later, but I've read the OP again and still see a fair argument.

a reply to: 3daysgone

First of all, the narrative the op suggests most definitely exists. Just as many liberals are not "safe space snowflakes", many conservatives do not follow the "only minorities commit crime" line of thinking. Both of these are suggested by various forms of media and other places online. So to discredit the entire message because the op happens to be against that narrative, is not helpful.

The rich are getting richer, and the poor, poorer. Many conservatives STILL talk about "trickle down economics" as if there's any validity to that phrase. Many conservatives do still talk about jobs being stolen by illegals, as if that's our nation's problem. Many conservatives still act like businesses are honest and well intended, and that things like encouraging and funding renewable energy are bad things....

Now, that's not every conservative. But these talking points still exist. Illegals taking jobs, corporations being picked on, and tricke down economics being valid.

They are factually incorrect representations of our system and issues.

The rich stay rich by rigging things against us.

Or is that only rich people who identify as the opposite party of yourself?

a reply to: Kandinsky

They do make a fair point, the problem I see is they ignore that Democrats are 50% of the problem. Both parties have the same agenda, and that is befriend rich people and get kickbacks to make them richer.

Clintons claimed they were broke when Bill left office, now they are worth about $50 mil (billions if you include the clinton foundation slush fund)
Obama is already worth $40 million and expected to make $250 million and he vacations with billionaires. the same people Obama bashed are now his best friends.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I interpreted this bit of the OP as including Dems as an equal part of the problem...

We've literally given trillions of dollars in tax cuts, subsudies to the wealthiest and the corporations in this country since the start of the Reagan administration. We've given billions to the military industrial complex. Ever hear about the Pentagon’s dark money? Billions of federal dollars are vanishing into thin air. How about all that military waste?

GOP (Reagan), GOP (Bush), Dem (Clinton), GOP (Bush), Dem (Obama), GOPish (Trump). Equal accountability.

a reply to: deadlyhope

First of all, the narrative the op suggests most definitely exists.

I am sure it does exist. Just as it is also true that a lot of illegal aliens are actually hurting the U.S. by bringing in drugs and committing other crimes here. Crimes like killing people. I can't deny the OP's narrative exists, but most of the left seem to deny the narrative that I just set forth. So I am not denying the OP's narrative, I am responding with how I look at the subject.

Just as many liberals are not "safe space snowflakes", many conservatives do not follow the "only minorities commit crime" line of thinking

Did you know that their are actual liberals that follow that thinking also, and most conservatives that I have known over my life do not think that way. Most of the conservatives that I personally know believe in personal responsibility to be of utmost importance to how you want to live this life.

Both of these are suggested by various forms of media and other places online.

Yes. They are only suggested ways to think.

So to discredit the entire message because the op happens to be against that narrative, is not helpful

I posited the argument of a different point of view in order to have a more enlightened debate. To think that I have discredited his entire argument is an assumption on your part. I go into serious conversations with a willingness to learn.

The rich are getting richer, and the poor, poorer.

Yes. They are. As a matter of fact what would you guess the political affiliation of the top 5 richest people in America is?
This will help get you started.

time.com...

Many conservatives STILL talk about "trickle down economics" as if there's any validity to that phrase.

I was never a fan of the trickle down method, I think it can be improved upon dramatically.

Many conservatives do still talk about jobs being stolen by illegals, as if that's our nation's problem.

As do many liberals. Just as not all liberals are snowflakes, many liberals feel exactly as you have said. Because it is a problem for this nation or it would not be talked about so much. Just as the Gun Problem. The Identity Problem. The Government Problem. Problems must be discussed, and only by telling the truth of what one believes is there any hope of finding a solution, which brings up the Free Speech problem.

Many conservatives still act like businesses are honest and well intended, and that things like encouraging and funding renewable energy are bad things....

I can guarantee you that group is rather small. Businesses are about making money. Conservatives believe the good thing about business's is that they keep people working so they can provide for their family. I guess we can do a pole to see how many conservatives are against renewable energy, but again I can guarantee you that it would be a relative few.

Now, that's not every conservative. But these talking points still exist. Illegals taking jobs, corporations being picked on, and tricke down economics being valid.

These talking points still exist because for freedom of speech. There are things that the left seem to want sweep under the rug and not talk about. You do realize that the liberal leaders are not trying to help DACA don't you? Trump has offered more to be apart of it than they even asked for, and they still will not support it.

They are factually incorrect representations of our system and issues.

What is factually incorrect about illegals taking jobs and companies being protested against?

The rich stay rich by rigging things against us.

That is what Zuckerburg seems to be doing. He is a liberal by the way.

Or is that only rich people who identify as the opposite party of yourself?

I don't know, is it?

I know this tread (or at least the O.P) is about more than immigration, nevertheless, I'm going to tackle that point. Perhaps some of the people trying to illegally gain access to America and all the great stuff our government will hand over to you to better their own/families lives....fine.
What really gets me, they see how it is here and want that and won't laws stop them. Then when they get here, they start making their living environments like it was from which they clawed to get away from. I want my country to be what it is, I don't want to have to assimilate to their culture. I know many they have been here far longer than a decade and can't speak a lick of English. Their homes end up being in such a manner that the neighborhood starts to dwindle making room for more of them. I have revisited old stomping grounds from my childhood (over the last 49 years) and they are like little Mexico. Those nice areas are now low in value and somewhere you wouldn't want to walk alone.
I would love to live in Düsseldorf Germany, but I wouldn't go there to make it more like America, I would like to assimilate into the local culture. I couldn't imagine going there and slapping an American flag to the back of my car and flying the flag in my front yard....but that is how I see them behaving.
Whatever, Trump does speak for the American working Joe, it's how he got into office. He's got the right idea on immigrants and the immigration policy.

a reply to: TinfoilTP

What factories has Trump brought back ? www.politico.com...

a reply to: Southern Guardian

Now you talk in circles.

You blast the focus on immigration. Then, when you have it pointed out how immigration pushes down wages, you move the goal posts and ask about the politicians behind it.

Ok. Its the democrats. They are behind it. And they voted against the tax plan you are trying the throw shade on here.

Your premise just fell apart

a reply to: Southern Guardian

You do realize you are racist right?
You place more emphasis on a person's skin color than any other attribute. Like all leftists you are incapable of understanding there are bad people from every race religion and creed just like there are good people from every race religion and creed.

Stop it already with your opression Olympics.
I'm starting to think you really don't know what those things in your avatar represent.

a reply to: Southern Guardian

Let's correct the record a bit here, shall we? Most of us aren't "blaming" illegal aliens, minorities, or welfare recipients. They're working a broken system same as most of us would do if an opportunity presented itself. We're blaming the politicians who coddle to those demographics, giving them our earnings and our opportunities all in the name of building their Kept Voter pools. We're also blaming the self depreciating fools who vote for those politicians despite not seeing any personal gain coming out of it. Bleeding hearts equal bleeding out.

a reply to: Southern Guardian

Yessssss, don't blame the minorities. It's white peoples fault! Only people who want what is best for their family come across the border guys. No weapons, drugs, humans being trafficked, diseases. Lets concentrate on the evil rich whites and our evil republican gov't for decreasing taxes!!!!


This takes into account taxes paid and government services consumed at both the State and Federal level.

a reply to: ShamnaOahu

So, what's your explanation as to WHY those charts look like that, assuming they're true? What's causing these people to cost more money - could it be that we have a nation so unwilling to focus on helping groups with issues , that kids and adults fall through the cracks, don't receive proper education, nutrition, health care, etc, to the point of them literally having no reasonable way to climb up to a better life?

Or should we have a party of more privileged people, with higher access to all of those, explain to others that success is only based on willpower, while our own successes were mostly based on the neighborhood we were lucky enough to be born into, or that we happened to be born into a higher class?