U.S. China Trade War Kicks Up Another Notch - What Happened To FREE MARKET Capitalism.?

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: DupontDeux

If China is "ripping us off" to the tune of $400 billion @ year, as the President states, let's quit doing business with them. If your mechanic is charging too much, get another one. Right?

Then start buying more expensive products that help companies flip the bill for being more environmentally protective and give their workers a wage that betters thier standard of living. So simple, but people love their cheap crap.

Way back in the seventies, about 90% of homes had a console TV, two or three radios, a phone attached by wire, a stove, a crockpot, and a refrigerator. Maybe an encyclopedia?

And let’s see, no video games. No home computers. Photography was not wide spread. No access to the internet. No caller ID. No cell phones. Not even VHS players. Just reel to reel movies and a project. Credit card purchases were made by placing a credit card in a manual press that created a carbon copy receipt for the individual to sign. Sorry, rant over.

I think it is a broader issue than trade deficits. China is pumping mad cash into Pakistan to buy influence into whats called the Chinese-Pakistan Economic Corridor. So far it's $60 billion, but will probably be more. Estimates are 1.5 to 2 million jobs and 2-3% growth. This COULD have an interesting effect later on with India who we know loathe the Pakistanis. Both countries have Nukes BTW.

I think this may be a way to divert Chinas expansion policies.

What happened to free market capitalism? Really, you had not noticed before that America does not practice true capitalism, much less free market capitalism. For years, companies profit from all sorts of market manipulations, many of which have been legalized by our government; you know, the one that works for us. The way it works in America, risk and loss are socialized, profits are privatized. Capitalism, what a farce.

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: NobodiesNormal


If we feel that China is attempting to destroy our free-market, wouldn't it be prudent to simply ban all Chinese goods that are priced artificially low?

what free market?...both countries have hundreds of tariffs against each other....you want a free market?...go to Somalia.

No democracy or republic should be doIng business with a communist dictatorship

originally posted by: RadioRobert
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Tariffs are just his tool to either slow the trade imbalance or open Chinese markets with fair trade.

Just like threatening to pull out of NAFTA wasn't to raise new tariffs but to negotiate a better deal.

Just like threatening to 86 the trade agreement with South Korea produced massively underreported con cessions from Seoul.


We have enormous leverage with a multi-trillion dollar consumer market. We just never use it because Wall St. only cares about cheap labor and profit margin, not the US industrial base or American workers. And Wall St owns the press (and more than a few politicians).

Don't look now, but ...
China reducing tariffs; opening markets

Chinese President Xi Jinping said Tuesday China will significantly lower the import tariffs for vehicles and reduce import tariffs for some other products this year...

The country will work hard to import more products that are competitive and needed by the Chinese people, he said.

China will also seek faster progress toward joining the WTO Government Procurement Agreement, according to the president.

"China does not seek trade surplus; we have a genuine desire to increase imports and achieve greater balance of international payments under the current account," he said.

Looks like we have progress toward a new deal. Now we drop them a sop, and both sides will smile and claim win-win.

originally posted by: RadioRobert

originally posted by: RadioRobert
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Tariffs are just his tool to either slow the trade imbalance or open Chinese markets with fair trade.

Just like threatening to pull out of NAFTA wasn't to raise new tariffs but to negotiate a better deal.

Just like threatening to 86 the trade agreement with South Korea produced massively underreported con cessions from Seoul.


We have enormous leverage with a multi-trillion dollar consumer market. We just never use it because Wall St. only cares about cheap labor and profit margin, not the US industrial base or American workers. And Wall St owns the press (and more than a few politicians).

Don't look now, but ...
China reducing tariffs; opening markets

Chinese President Xi Jinping said Tuesday China will significantly lower the import tariffs for vehicles and reduce import tariffs for some other products this year...

The country will work hard to import more products that are competitive and needed by the Chinese people, he said.

China will also seek faster progress toward joining the WTO Government Procurement Agreement, according to the president.

"China does not seek trade surplus; we have a genuine desire to increase imports and achieve greater balance of international payments under the current account," he said.

Looks like we have progress toward a new deal. Now we drop them a sop, and both sides will smile and claim win-win.

In the perspective given by cable news I can see how you would take a headline like this to heart.

In the reality of global economics, research, innovation and production the posturing you seem to think wins or loses are played out in these headlines.

The reality is far more complex.

As what seems to be a newly aquired attention to economics you should know this has been how China has been talking for years.

Innovation is developing rapidly for them and the ultra controlled communist party is able to direct the national economy towards reality on the ground revamp or redirect economic conditions at will. It's an unfair advantage Nixon opened up to control inflation and secure Keynesian economics as a plan to use the CPI to judge and control inflation.

Enter cheap goods but also the transfer of pollution to other developing nations. After cancer rates and birth defects reached terrible levels and lakes and rivers caught fire.

China has been mass investing in renewable energy for their infrastructure 3 to 1 even to Obama. They are looking to be more like the US Uk, Canada etc and have more white collar import based economic structure.

Monday, May 21, 2018

It Looks like the U.S. vs CHINA trade war has been averted. In fact, President Trump said this morning that China is looking to buy as much as U.S. FARMERS can produce.

Link to Tweet: twitter.com...

WINNING is FUN and BENEFICIAL!

Impossible. Using tariffs as leverage for better deals and to decrease the trade deficit was a naive blundering use of power destroying America. Didn't you watch the news?

Massive deficits are the sign of a healthy economy. Didn't you see luthier's posts? If China buys more ag products and reduces the trade deficit, it's going to destroy us. The deficit is good for us. They should buy fewer American products!

a reply to: RadioRobert

Apparently you are drinking the Kool aid. Nobody but trump seems to think he isn't being played.

a reply to: luthier

Yes, reducing the trade deficit is a terrible deal for the American economy. Shame on him.

originally posted by: RadioRobert
a reply to: luthier

Yes, reducing the trade deficit is a terrible deal for the American economy. Shame on him.

Unfortunately that hasn't happened.

a reply to: luthier

Well, let's wait longed than a month for something to bear fruit, shall we? After all, holding a deficit, we feel less heat while disturbing the status quo. And if not, you can take solace in all your posts where the deficit is great for us. I fully expect you to cheer him if the deficit stays the same or rises.

originally posted by: RadioRobert
a reply to: luthier

Well, let's wait longed than a month for something to bear fruit, shall we? After all, holding a deficit, we feel less heat while disturbing the status quo. And if not, you can take solace in all your posts where the deficit is great for us. I fully expect you to cheer him if the deficit stays the same or rises.

Sure why don't you stop jumping the gun...

Were you aware the deficit of trade has been slowly and steadily shrinking? That China has already been buying more agriculture?

Or did you just buy full in to the rhetoric?

Deficit with China in Billions of dollars:
1990: 10.4
1991: 12.7
1992: 18.3
1993: 22.8
1994: 29.5
1995: 33.8
1996: 39.5
1997: 49.7
1998: 56.9
1999: 68.7
2000: 83.8
2001: 83.0
2002: 103.1
2003: 124.1
2004: 162.3
2005: 202.3
2006: 234:1
2007: 258.5
2008: 268.0
2009: 226.9
2010: 273.0
2011: 295.2
2012: 315.1
2013: 318.7
2014: 344.8
2015: 367.3
2016: 347.0
2017: 375.2

2018: 91.1 (Jan-Mar)

Which of the three bolded one-year decreases in deficit in the last 28 years are you referencing as evidence for your claim that "the deficit of trade has been slowly and steadily shrinking"?

a reply to: RadioRobert

The fact you don't understand goods and services and what they mean for an economy pretty much says it all.

Also the fact you think we are at 91.1 and won't reach a record next Christmas season seems naive.

So none of those? You just made it up.

Got it.


Better quickly change gears to "you're just to naive to understand how good the deficit is for the economy" again . (Sidenote: you should be thrilled with Trump's alleged failure to decrease it then, but I notice only contempt for people who disagree with you).

originally posted by: MingBisho
No democracy or republic should be doIng business with a communist dictatorship

Seriously lol!

The US, will neither win a trade war against China, nor will it have unilateral concessions from North Korea, and will not manage a new Russia-China split as some EUSSR Eurocrats are hoping.

... officials who push for it will end up being a huge failure and will have to be fired at some point in the future ...

originally posted by: Flanker86
The US, will neither win a trade war against China, nor will it have unilateral concessions from North Korea, and will not manage a new Russia-China split as some EUSSR Eurocrats are hoping.

... officials who push for it will end up being a huge failure and will have to be fired at some point in the future ...

Your about a decade behind in politics. Russia is dependent on China without China the Russian economy would crash. The split will be Russia and India. India has no strategic advantage trading with Russia. Currently the US is pushing to get India a permanent seat at the UN. Its currently opposed by China of course. India is quickly realizing supporting Russia strengthens China. As far as a trade war with China they will grunt and growl but in the end US trade is far more important to china. The US market is 2 times their size and they cant afford to be left out of it. Then there's the significant damage to a debt ridden economy, Last year Cina sold $506 billion in exports to the United States — nearly 20 percent of its exports go to America — while the United States sold just $130 billion to the Chinese. In this situation Chins had far more to lose and there isnt a market for them to pick up the slack. The US however has several options to replace China.

Over the last few years, China's debt-to-GDP has ballooned to more than 300 percent from 160 percent a decade ago, causing many people, including Chinese officials, to warn of a financial-sector debt bubble that's waiting to burst. A trade war will cause that bubble to burst if China is not careful. Then theres the fact many are saying we should not be dealing with China in the first place and need to transfer US efforts to India.