France, Germany Expected to Announce Next Gen Fighter Program Later This Month

originally posted by: thebozeian
a reply to: anzha
Yes the Germans seem quite paralyzed now when it comes to making decisions about reequipping and the growing threat from Russia as well as other destabilizing influences in Europe. Its very sad and worrying to see. Maybe its just me but this attitude seems to coincide with reunification in the early 90's. Some may dismiss it as a side effect of the post cold war peace dividend, but I'm not so sure. The earlier shenanigans on this thread make me wonder if this is not the German society being white anted from within by Communists disguised as Greens and various sleeper agents left behind after the USSR and WarPac retreated East. The fact that the head of the German Air force was sacked for doing his job of suggesting alternatives along with a ridiculously long and inadequate development time frame makes me suspicious.

lol no, no “sleeper agents”

But the Germans are indeed ‘paralyzed’. Every generation of Germans alive today has a) either experienced the horrors of war first hand, b) lived true the threat of instant annihilation during the Cold War and/or c) was told since an early age that war and violence are bad and don’t solve anything. As a result the German society today is comparatively peaceful. There is exactly zero willingness to fight or even confront anyone over anything. Standing up for western or god forbid German interest and defending them by force of arms is a no go. Deployments of the Bundeswehr abroad are deeply unpopular in the German society. Same is true for any kind of rearmament really. Germans at large don’t care about the sorry state of their armed forces. They much rather invest in yet another social program than build up even a modest ground or air arm. Couple that sentiment we a profound hatred of Trump (fueled by the german media of course, Obama was a saint, Trump is an unhinged maniac ready to blow us all up and will fire Mueller any day now really) as well as a deep, underlying sceptisim about what is seen as American imperialism and you get what you see today.

Politicians at large just echo these sentiments. Yes, there are some Russian loving fringe groups on the left and right in the Bundestag. Die Linke (The Left) party is little more than the old SED of the DDR (the party that run the dictatorship in Easter Germany during the Cold War) and west German communists. They love Russia (less so under ‘rightwing’ Putin) and hate America. On the right, there is a wing of the AfD (Alternative for Germany) which has its power base in former Eastern Germany and plays to pro Russian, anti American sentiments there.

But this is not really relevant since bot the (far) Left and Right do not and will not have any power in Germany. The Centrist (some say left of center these days) CDU/CSU Union rules Germany basically unchallenged since 2005 with Angela Merkel as chancellor. Most of the time with the (somewhat) left of center SPD. Merkel is utterly uninterested in the military in general. I don’t think she hates it on any level, she just doesn’t care about the armed force and wont embrace them because it wouldn’t be very popular. And this is true for most politicians within the Bundestag and the ruling coalition. You cant *win* on defense related issues and most politicians wont touch subject or god forbid fund it.

With Merkel personally, I think it actually goes back to the Iraq War in 2003. The chancellor back than Gerhard Schröder vividly opposed the push for war during the election campaign in 2002, while the Union candidate Edmund Stoiber along with Merkel and the Union in general came out in favor of the war. This deeply hurt them in the election and it was a major factor why Schröder remained chancellor until 2005 (and nearly won those elections as well). Ever since then Merkel stayed as detached and quiet as possible when it came to defense related issues and allowed the Bundeswehr to rot.

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: anzha
a reply to: intrptr

That something is going to happen before 2040. That something, I interpreted, as having an effect on Germany and France, since you stated the new aircraft would come too late.

The speed with which NATO has encroached into Eastern Europe,

Uh, Eastern Europe wanted to join NATO themselves (funny that), and NATO made them wait their turn.

By the time the Politicians get their act together the Russians will have their Gen 5 aircraft in the air and in quantity.

a reply to: Blackfinger

www.flightglobal.com...

They are talking 2035 now.

Also a 'family of systems.'

a reply to: anzha



It's set to a bubblegum version of stuff from Crazy Frog or something. gah. Euros...

originally posted by: anzha
a reply to: anzha

It's set to a bubblegum version of stuff from Crazy Frog or something. gah. Euros...

Shades of BAE Replica on that one!

Why do they want 5th Generation by 2040, wont it be a bit long in the teeth by then?

They should perhaps start working on what 6th Gen is and then focusing on that, if 6th Gen is something like a 5th Gen with more processing power controlling a supersonic capable drone fleet, then you might want to build a bigger platform?