France, Germany Expected to Announce Next Gen Fighter Program Later This Month

France expects to take a “first significant step” in the development of a new European fighter jet with Germany later this month, Defence Minister Florence Parly said in remarks published on Thursday.

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The new fighter jet aims to replace the Rafale and Eurofighter, rival jets that compete fiercely for global sales.

“We are looking at first delivery by 2040 to replace the Eurofighter and to prepare for a future beyond the Rafale,” the source said.

www.reuters.com...

So. The French and Germans are once again attempting to build a fighter together. I am a little concerned they are planning on splitting into French and German teams that will define their national needs and then come back together. Ironing out the differences is harder when both sides have set their ideas in stone separately.

2040 is a loong, loooong, loooooong ways away. Either they don't believe in there being much change between now and then, or...something. IDK. I can't imagine a 22 year program before first delivery as being a successful one. The American 6th gen (and likely Chinese) will have come out since then and Europe didn't even attempt a 5th gen fighter. Yes, you can skip, but lots of knowledge just isn't there for more advanced than the 4.5gs...

Looping back to the two teams, it seems there is a longer laundry list of French companies compared to German, but the German companies have largely gone extinct or been et.

One last bit, no matter what else this bird might have, it will be a multirole fighter. It'll be interesting to see what else comes out.

a reply to: anzha

“We are looking at first delivery by 2040..."

Whatever is going to happen will be over by then.

a reply to: intrptr

And then the next thing will happen. I agree this is too far in the future though.

2040?

Forget about it

We all feel something very close now

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: anzha

“We are looking at first delivery by 2040..."

Whatever is going to happen will be over by then.

On that note .. if you have a feeling that they are building up to something, one could wonder if 'whatever is going to happen' is being delayed because of all the F-35 issues.

They thought they would have a fleet of modern fighters by now, but they don't. That could impact plans..

Should be interesting, but France tends to insist that their requirements are the only requirements, hence their withdrawal from the Eurofighter programme a few years back.

Apart from the defence need, this collaboration is highly political in my opinion. It's about setting an explicitly EU industrial strategy for defence. With the UK now moving away from the EU, an important technological and financial partner may take its future in other directions, and decide not to participate in a programme where they would be a secondary partner, and just be a cash cow.

So, while this is good for France and Germany and opens opportunity within the EU, it also breaks the UK out of primary involvement in pan-European defence collaborations. The UK may shift closer to the US or, as is seen by the UK's recent shipbuilding strategy, make a conscious decision to build their own kit "for export", and this opens up interesting collaborative opportunities beyond Europe, but perhaps not with Russia, eh?

a reply to: DupontDeux

On that note .. if you have a feeling that they are building up to something, one could wonder if 'whatever is going to happen' is being delayed because of all the F-35 issues.

Wunderwaffe isn't going to save the empire. Neither will flattops, walls or ABM systems.

a reply to: paraphi

Apart from the defence need, this collaboration is highly political in my opinion. It's about setting an explicitly EU industrial strategy for defence. With the UK now moving away from the EU, an important technological and financial partner may take its future in other directions, and decide not to participate in a programme where they would be a secondary partner, and just be a cash cow.

The debate about Brexit was stymied by the recent Russian 'chemical weapons attack' on England. Kind of convenient that...

a reply to: intrptr

Russian FM: Ex-spy's poisoning is a distraction from Brexit

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Off topic aside... Really? 2040?

Does anyone believe in that?

a reply to: vinifalou

Really? 2040?

Does anyone believe in that?

Banks, Factories for war and the military.

The endless war machine grinds on.

a reply to: intrptr

Do you any information outside your personal interpretation that would back your claim?

I just realized that if there's ever a major non-nuclear war again that date may move up really fast especially since they're facing the Russian Federation on the east. My best,

a reply to: anzha

France and Germany have some GILFS.

But good for them it will. be interesting to see where they take their home brewed airframes, i hope they will take some advice from the USAF on the lessoins they earned from the F-22 and F-35. That way they can have a smoother production run.

originally posted by: anzha
a reply to: intrptr

Do you any information outside your personal interpretation that would back your claim?

What claim?

Wonder if France will do to Germany what they did to BAE..Stuffed them around for years while they expanded their own program..

a reply to: intrptr

That something is going to happen before 2040. That something, I interpreted, as having an effect on Germany and France, since you stated the new aircraft would come too late.

I wonder if France will be planning a carrier force for 2040? That would potentially make some of their requirements a bit hard for Germany to swallow?

Also the Brexit comment is a bit mute when UK and France have a future UAV program and Britain are a major contributor to NATO, Airbus and MDBA.

Sweden and SAAB continue to make wonderfull aircraft which sell globally so they will probably be already designing the Grippen replacement.

Be interesting to watch as poor old Germany takes one up the chute from France.

originally posted by: Forensick
I wonder if France will be planning a carrier force for 2040?

By 2040 it will be a European Union carrier force. In twenty years time the EU will be federated, IMHO. This will also stop individual countries (as now) from procuring defence equipment from the outside. A new Franco-German fighter delivered in 2040 will be delivered to the EU. That's the target audience and the prevailing economics.

Take the UK out of the mix, and the EU nations have perhaps 1,800 fighters to be replaced. With that scale of replacement there is quite a persuasive economic argument. All good news for the French (smiley face).

originally posted by: anzha
a reply to: intrptr

That something is going to happen before 2040. That something, I interpreted, as having an effect on Germany and France, since you stated the new aircraft would come too late.

The speed with which NATO has encroached into Eastern Europe, installed missile 'shields' ( a clear violation of ABM< treaties), established bases and run exercises along the Russian border as far east as Poland, is surely provocative. The Russians haven't seen German armor along their borders since WWII. Before that they had to endure the French under Napoleon and the Germans again during WWI.

You think they wonder too how come every hundred years or so the west goes crazy, feels they have to attack Russia?

They aren't stupid you know, they will defend themselves, they are a super power and have nukes, too.

Ho hum, heavy sigh...

a reply to: intrptr

You do realize the ABM Treaty has been shredded, right? The US withdrew a long time ago now. The encroachment into eastern Europe stopped before the turn of the millennium. These are not new developments. The only thing they have triggered is the on going war in Ukraine. That, largely, Russia brought on itself because its puppet, Yanukovich, was a blatantly corrupt and stupid figure who had almost beaten the protestors and then did some of the stupidest actions possible.

You have been to Ukraine, I gather? Walked the ground. Talked to the people. In the Donbas, Crimea, and Kiev at least?

Why by 2040 though? It sounds like this is just your take on things rather than new information. The events you cite are old, getting on two decades at this point. Please, offer something else that makes you think it will be by 2040.