NYPD video shows moments before cops fatally shoot bipolar man

originally posted by: ZeroFurrbone
BS, Police are always reposonisble.

They never shoot in the legs or arms, they shoot in the body because they can't even aim.

I think you’ve been watching too many movies if you think it’s easy to land a shot on someone’s extremities. The risk of hitting a civilian is too high and the police, like the military, are trained to aim for the largest mass which is the torso.

And why they don't weak kevlar vests if they are scared of getting shot so much?

Right, because Kevlar covers every square centimeter of someone’s body lol. Again, you’re living in a Hollywood film if you think a vest magically stops every round that is fired.

I don't care even if that was a toy gun, or a real gun. The person has to shoot first with bullets then the police to shoot him.

Look, you’re not going be hard pressed to find someone who is as anti police as i tend to be but in this particular instance, there was a man on a public street who appeared to have a firearm, was walking up to random strangers and “aiming” it at them and then when the police arrived on scene he once again, “aimed” his pretend firearm at them. after receiving numerous 911 calls about a man with a gun, the police acted upon their mandate, to protect the populace at large from someone who, as far as they knew, was armed. Is it a sad story? Absolutely. But in this instance at least, the police were in the right to fire when he pointed what appeared to be a firearm at them. Nobody in their right mind would do such a reckless thing and it’s unfortunate that this mentally ill man lost his life but playing Monday morning quarterback is ludicrous.

Anything else is just idiot police that can shoot whoever they want and then say it was ok cos it looked like he has a gun.

There are many cases where this point is apropos. This instance however is not a matter of the police being in the wrong. They received multiple reports of a man walking down the street aiming a gun at people. They had to act on the information available at the time and when he pretended to aim his make believe gun at them, he lost his chances at walking away from this encounter with a trip to a mental health facility for a72 hour hold.

And the best part ? I can go in the use and shoot whoever i want whenever i want just because i feel threatened by them. You trying to rob me ? I kill you! You have a gun? I shoot you imediately because i feel threatened. You have a knife ? Headshot. This is what USA really is.

Over dramatized histrionics might be all the rage where you are from but you’re a fool if you base your thoughts on a population of nearly 350 million on the actions of a few dozen. If that were how everyone workdwiderespo we’d to things, there would’ve a state of never ending all out war. For what it’s worth, if someone tried to rob you and your shoot them, then good for you. You’ve just managed to prolong your life. Maybe you could just shoot them I tge leg or arm though and show us ignorant Americans how it’s done I tge civilized world.

What I always find amazing is that the whole center mass shot because of stress etc and no attempt to disable via leg arm kneecap excuse doesn’t make sense when in reverse. So a bad guy has a hidden gun and is gonna shoot you with such aim and precision that the same center mass armor protection isn’t enough because he might get a one in a million head shot. If the people trained day in and out aren’t precise enough to take a disabling non lethal shot than why would you think a bad guy is? And why can’t we invent armored headgear even if it’s hot and uncomfortable to don in a short lived situation? See there is ways around all this but we can’t be bothered to apply them

originally posted by: MikeA

By the way in case you don't me, my son is a cop, my middle daughter is an ADA, and my youngest is a CBP officer. I know for a fact that none of them agreed to be a target for every scumb bag with a beef.

Really don't care... We agree with the same end results that the guy is stopped. In your scenario it is OK to kill the guy with little or zero assessment of the situation, and in mine I just want to the cops to assess the situation before they kill, which seems to be an extremely quick decision.

My point about a war zone is a soldier in a war zone has more restraint not to shoot someone then our own cops in America. You know where all the dirt bags live

The other problem is in their world EVERYONE is a scumbag ready to kill them...that is why they draw and shoot first...lol I guess you do not get it...

a reply to: Xtrozero

Or how about this..

Don't want to get shot then don't rush up on people holding something that looks like a gun in a shooting pose.

I mean this misunderstood just needed a hug fool did that to someone with a kid...

Looks like the cops got that man the help he needed, there's a lesson here, don't rely on cops for help.

originally posted by: opethPA

Or how about this..

Don't want to get shot then don't rush up on people holding something that looks like a gun in a shooting pose.

I mean this misunderstood just needed a hug fool did that to someone with a kid...

OK shoot every crazy person on the streets...lol

In the rather large amount of time the guy was doing this he didn't assault anyone, didn't pull the trigger on his shower head, didn't even have a weapon...lol

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: SocratesJohnson


Do you personally have issues with cops??

Throwing that he has a mental issue in the title, like the cops should know.

Unless you want people with mental illness to have to get a tattoo or wear a symbol on their clothes? If not, how do you expect the cops to know that someone is crazy?

I have issues with cops that shoot people who end up not having a weapon and are not physically attacking the cop to the point that a cop only choice is to shoot.

That is my point the cops don't know anything and they shoot. They do know up to that point he didn't actually do any physical violence other than to act in a crazy manner. All too often the cop says I felt threaten, how about 6 bullets in the back because the cops said a phone looked like a gun, or a kid with an air soft gets blown away in less than 2 seconds when the cops pull up though he been playing around by himself for a while.

Your statement is suggesting that since the cops do not "know" what is going on then lethal force is a good way to figure everything out...

So you would have a problem with the police shooting someone stranggling a child, or elderly person, or innconecnt man or woman?

Police aim for center mass because it is the largest available target to impact, this way if you do engage a suspect you are aiming at the largest available piece of mass so your chances of impact are that much higher. Also if a police officer makes the decision to take it to deadly force that is what it is Deadly Force, not wounding force or any other force it is Deadly Force. You seem like a person who just has a grudge against the police for whatever reason, I don’t know why nor do I care but walk a mile in our shoes before you start criticizing us for doing our job. Understand policy, understand why we shoot and why we shoot to kill.

In a low light or no light setting you it very easy to mistake something a person is holding for something that it is not. Police make split second decisions and are protected under case law with a major one being Graham vs Conor where the objective reasonableness standard came into practice and all that it states is were the actions reasonable under the split second circumstances that a normal thinking person react to the situation. Something that you probably have no idea about.

originally posted by: caf1550

So you would have a problem with the police shooting someone stranggling a child, or elderly person, or innconecnt man or woman?

I do not understand your point, I did say physically attacking, yes there are times, but once again assess the situation first.

In a low light or no light setting you it very easy to mistake something a person is holding for something that it is not. Police make split second decisions and are protected under case law with a major one being Graham vs Conor where the objective reasonableness standard came into practice and all that it states is were the actions reasonable under the split second circumstances that a normal thinking person react to the situation. Something that you probably have no idea about.

Was it low light in this case? No I do... I'm talking beyond that as in they do not assess the situation and guns are blazing... BTW is every case a split second decision? Does ever case need to be?

Yeah usually if it is believed a suspect has a firearm, or potentially deadly weapon it is usually split second decision making, it is all due to the actions of the suspect. For every action there is a appropriate and opposite reaction, you meet potential deadly force with deadly force. In the SJC decision of Plakas Vs Drinski the Supreme Court held that if the suspects actions are potentially deadly to the officers or bystanders in the area that the officers involved are not obligated to use any force less then lethal force. Which is saying even if they have taser or chemical agent or baton on their belt that of the suspects actions are possibly deadly to them or others then they don’t have to use any less than deadly force.

I’m sure you have never heard of that case or Graham Vs Connor because they go against your beliefs. Do some research before you start bashing people in my profession and also the “low light” example I was referring to was the same one I’m sure you were referring to when you stated that the police shot a suspect in the back 6 times for having a cell phone. You have a vey biased opinion and you have clearly not done any research on the matter at hand because if you did you would understand better why something’s happen the way they do. Clearly you are a person who has a bias against the police for whatever reason, and if you look at all the video evidence of the NYPD case you would see that not only could the object be mistaken for a firearm but it was since most of the 911 calls made by people on the streets stated they thought he had a gun. He point it at the officers in the same fashion one would point a firearm. Do some homework sir.

originally posted by: caf1550
Yeah usually if it is believed a suspect has a firearm, or potentially deadly weapon it is usually split second decision making, it is all due to the actions of the suspect. For every action there is a appropriate and opposite reaction, you meet potential deadly force with deadly force. .

I know right, Tamir rice is testament to that.

originally posted by: caf1550
For every action there is a appropriate and opposite reaction, you meet potential deadly force with deadly force.

That is what has changed over the years. When the cops pulled up on a kid that has an air soft and stops within 20 feet of him and then shoots him within a second of getting out of the car the kid basically flinched in that mere second to create "potential". In this case this guy was harassing a a good number of people before the cops got there. Didn't shoot anyone, didn't attack anyone over a good period of time. A little distance a little observation and he would have lived.

Its that "potential" part that is skewed today... I know war, guns, actions etc..been in wars since the 1980s, If I reacted like cops today I be in jail a long time ago...

potentially deadly

There is that potential thing again, he lifted his shirt... he appeared to reach for his belt line... he flinched... he had a gun (legally) but was laying on the ground following all the cops ordered, but still got a full AR15 mag in him...

What do you do at the end of the day when you kill someone that wasn't armed... Do you just justify it with Plakas Vs Drinski to ease your concerns...

Clearly you are a person who has a bias against the police for whatever reason.

Actually I have no bias, I feel the police mirrors the society they live and work in, crappy society, crappy police...and it differs around the country, but I'm old enough to know how it has all changed over the years. I think a lot of it is that the police are undermanned and the gun option comes up much quicker than in the past due to you had more man power supporting you. There is power in numbers and if you are one maybe two then you lost that option. This is why a cop today escalates the situation to lethal force extremely fast than in the past.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

I know right, Tamir rice is testament to that.

I hope cops do know that guns are legal in this country...lol Even air soft guns...

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

I know right, Tamir rice is testament to that.

I hope cops do know that guns are legal in this country...lol Even air soft guns...

That's the problem, at least from the perspective of the police, if I were a cop I would be freaked out at the possibility of every interaction with the public being my last, it's one of the downsides of of everyone having guns.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: opethPA

Or how about this..

Don't want to get shot then don't rush up on people holding something that looks like a gun in a shooting pose.

I mean this misunderstood just needed a hug fool did that to someone with a kid...

OK shoot every crazy person on the streets...lol

In the rather large amount of time the guy was doing this he didn't assault anyone, didn't pull the trigger on his shower head, didn't even have a weapon...lol

I don't see many crazy people rushing up on people acting the way this person did..

One person caused this situation and that is the one running around acting like he is shooting people.

Honestly if he would have pulled this on a citizen that was carrying and that person shot him I wonder if you would have posted on it .

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: caf1550
For every action there is a appropriate and opposite reaction, you meet potential deadly force with deadly force.

That is what has changed over the years. When the cops pulled up on a kid that has an air soft and stops within 20 feet of him and then shoots him within a second of getting out of the car the kid basically flinched in that mere second to create "potential". In this case this guy was harassing a a good number of people before the cops got there. Didn't shoot anyone, didn't attack anyone over a good period of time. A little distance a little observation and he would have lived.

Its that "potential" part that is skewed today... I know war, guns, actions etc..been in wars since the 1980s, If I reacted like cops today I be in jail a long time ago...

potentially deadly

There is that potential thing again, he lifted his shirt... he appeared to reach for his belt line... he flinched... he had a gun (legally) but was laying on the ground following all the cops ordered, but still got a full AR15 mag in him...

What do you do at the end of the day when you kill someone that wasn't armed... Do you just justify it with Plakas Vs Drinski to ease your concerns...

Clearly you are a person who has a bias against the police for whatever reason.

Actually I have no bias, I feel the police mirrors the society they live and work in, crappy society, crappy police...and it differs around the country, but I'm old enough to know how it has all changed over the years. I think a lot of it is that the police are undermanned and the gun option comes up much quicker than in the past due to you had more man power supporting you. There is power in numbers and if you are one maybe two then you lost that option. This is why a cop today escalates the situation to lethal force extremely fast than in the past.

Yeah the kid had a air soft gun that looked exactly like a real firearm, no little orange tip on the end of it to denote that it is a air soft replica firearm.

No officer don’t go home an ease there pain using the Plakas Vs Drinski case, no they are human just like you and I and they have to live with the decision they just made, but that’s what people don’t understand.

It’s split seconds between life and death, split seconds. If it’s a bad shooting I would be the first to extol the officer like I did when the officer in Minnesota I believe it was shot and killed Justine Damond. But if it is a good justified shooting then I will do everything I can and use my expertise to help protect the officer and try to bring knowledge about.

People always fall back on “well the person didn’t have a fun”

Ever hear of the 21 foot rule, probably not, look it up. What it says is that a person with a knife in there pocket or waist band can draw that knife and be on top of a officer before that officer has the ability to draw and fire his service weapon in defense. Split second decision making.

Also it’s not the officer job to create distance and observe, it’s to close the distance and react to the situation to stop the actions of the suspect and to protect the innocent public from harm. This isn’t a force recon unit working the mountains of Afghanistan observing a situation. No there job is to respond and act on what the suspect is doing, if they is potential that the suspect can hurt kill or maim an innocent person or officer then it is the officers job to stop that from happening.

originally posted by: opethPA
a reply to: Xtrozero

Lemme see if i get this right..

You actually watched the video clips in your source and you are blaiming the police?

Don't jump on the don't ever blame the Police bandwagon....just don't ok...spare us.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: caf1550
For every action there is a appropriate and opposite reaction, you meet potential deadly force with deadly force.

That is what has changed over the years. When the cops pulled up on a kid that has an air soft and stops within 20 feet of him and then shoots him within a second of getting out of the car the kid basically flinched in that mere second to create "potential". In this case this guy was harassing a a good number of people before the cops got there. Didn't shoot anyone, didn't attack anyone over a good period of time. A little distance a little observation and he would have lived.

Its that "potential" part that is skewed today... I know war, guns, actions etc..been in wars since the 1980s, If I reacted like cops today I be in jail a long time ago...

potentially deadly

There is that potential thing again, he lifted his shirt... he appeared to reach for his belt line... he flinched... he had a gun (legally) but was laying on the ground following all the cops ordered, but still got a full AR15 mag in him...

What do you do at the end of the day when you kill someone that wasn't armed... Do you just justify it with Plakas Vs Drinski to ease your concerns...

Clearly you are a person who has a bias against the police for whatever reason.

Actually I have no bias, I feel the police mirrors the society they live and work in, crappy society, crappy police...and it differs around the country, but I'm old enough to know how it has all changed over the years. I think a lot of it is that the police are undermanned and the gun option comes up much quicker than in the past due to you had more man power supporting you. There is power in numbers and if you are one maybe two then you lost that option. This is why a cop today escalates the situation to lethal force extremely fast than in the past.

Nothing is skewed....everything is worked out with Lawyers Judges and Union officials who work with and for the Police departments....they do NOTHING SOP without their crooked lawyers and judges and union colluding to accurately word what the police will say after they have committed a murder....they are TAUGHT what to say to justify MURDER....they are SUPPORETED IN THIS BY LAWYERS JUDGES AND UNION OFFICIALS WORKING TOGETHER.........this is one of the issue you need to take directly to Trump on social media...do not relent.....take it to your President....this is the heart of the issue of USA corruption he and his friends have committed to stop.

The corruption in America runs soooo deep it is sickening....same as Canada......yesterday I read about a Cop who shot 2 people because they drove their car twards him after he jumped out to stop them....this is one of the key dynamics the Police use to commit legal murder....just point your car at them or drive in their direction to escape and they will MURDER YOU claiming you were trying to kill them and they had to defend themselves and the public....THIS IS A DIRECT LIE.....a lie they tell because it is legally supported....you cannot murder someone for trying to escape custody ...you CANNOT JUMP IN FRONT OF A ROADWAY AND THEN MURDER SOMEONE BECAUSE THEY TRY TO RUN YOU OVER....that is technically a suicide attempt and you should be suspended from the police force if you so such a stupid thing....but yes we DO KNOW WHY they continue to do stuff like this...to justify and continue justifying the MURDERS THEY COMMIT.

In my jurisdiction they just brought in laws that will put a PERSON in jail for assaulting or killing a police dog ...penalties equal to those for assaulting or killing an Officer...a HUMAN OFFICER....this is a prime example of the Global Cabals work....now police can release ANIMALS TO ATTACT PEOPLE....and punish people for defending themselves and their lives....AGAINST AN ANIMAL THAT DOESNT HAVE A RATIONAL MIND....this is ludicrous....this is a crime against humanity.

IMHO I am sick of the injustice and wish to see EVERY LAST ROTTEN JUDGE LAWYER COP CIVIC EMPLOYEE AND ANYONE ELSE WHO SUPPORTS THIS HUMANITARIAN TERRORISM CAUGHT TRIED AND JAILED.

No more murdering people in the name of the law....if a human is killed and it is not by legally sanctioned execution....a freaking....PUBLIC... murder investigation had better be enacted in EVERY SINGLE CASE...not an internal investigation that can be whitewashed....ESPECIALLY IF LAW ENFORCEMENT IS INVOLVED.....until we try and jail multiple police men and women and also jail the judges who have been helping them and also sue and stop the unions and civic employees who accommodate the scam people will continue to be murdered.

NO SPECIAL PROTECTION FOR COPS WHO KILL OR PEOPLE WHO HELP THEM IN PRISON....no segregation no protection no collusion......if a Cop breaks the law...they are screwed and we need to let them know that clearly.......only then will the put their guns away and stop the murders...and also their Superiors need to be tried and sentenced along with them.....the Police Chief must be held accountable for his underlings....this removes the levels of protection built up over time that support these murders.

Its sickening to see people murdered on video right in front of your eyes....innocent people...ALL OF THEM INNOCENT AND OF THIS THERE IS NO DISPUTE FOR THEY WERE NEVER GIVEN A TRIAL......and we see this everywhere online today...how is it possible that the President can continue doing his job and not be aware of these MANY MANY cases of murder by Cop and COVERUPS CONNECTED TO THESE MURDERS.....get on soclal meda and ask Trump to do special investigations....you HAVE TO ASK HIM SO THE ISSUE IS NOT HIDDEN BACK UNDER THE RUG...you must be heard.


This issue goes very very deep into the American fabric......this issue goes far beyond the case we discuss here....this issue is a critical issue to Trumps Presidency.....The Donald said he would reclaim America for AMERICANS....and WE ALL KNOW HE HAS TO BEGIN HERE......fear not last time I checked there were THOUSANDS OF SEALED INDICTMENTS waiting to be actioned....hopefuly we see some movement in this issue that supports the people....like some crooked judges and lawyers and Union people and Civic empolyees like Mayors and Councilpeople and Lawyers FROM THE BIGGEST MOST POWERFULL FIRMS are nailed to the wall.....

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed


That's the problem, at least from the perspective of the police, if I were a cop I would be freaked out at the possibility of every interaction with the public being my last, it's one of the downsides of of everyone having guns.

Do you also freak out every time you see a car? That is dangerous weapon too.

You bring up a good point...I wonder if cops feel and act on "every interaction with the public being my last" type of scenario.

The problem is the liberals have worked very hard to criminalize guns. You can keep your 2nd, but keep your guns in your safe. If you have a gun actually on your person you are obviously in the wrong and very dangerous. I'm sure this attitude has worked its way very deeply into all levels of society including cops.


Assessing the situation and positioning yourself is the key. With this latest case of mistaking a phone for a gun to get shot in the back 6 times because of that is something that needs to be fixed, and unfortunately cops need to let a person react more to allow the situation to at least reach a point that shooting the person is the correct call. Is that a few seconds later or longer IDNK, but right now it isn't long enough and mistakes are made.

I do understand that it may increase the danger level but that is really hard to measure, and if a cop feels like you do then they are in the wrong career field.

originally posted by: opethPA

I don't see many crazy people rushing up on people acting the way this person did..

One person caused this situation and that is the one running around acting like he is shooting people.

Honestly if he would have pulled this on a citizen that was carrying and that person shot him I wonder if you would have posted on it .

Ever go to San Diego...lol I live near Portland OR and a few years back they became concerned with the high incidences of cops shooting unarmed crazy people. They went into a big cultural awareness and adjustment period with the police force to slow down and assess the situations better before the trigger is pulled.

As one who does carry, I can say we are 99.9% reactive, so no a person who carries would not have shot the guy because he was acting weird and pointing a finger, stick, shower head, phone, or even an air soft really doesn't matter. If you carry you need to be reactive and not triggered as a cop may be.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Police were absolutely in the right. Would you rather that they wait until someone gets shot before responding with deadly force, or do the appropriate thing in this instance and neutralize a perceived threat who is pointing something that most New Yorkers, ignorant to what real guns actually are, assume is a real firearm.

I'm a fan of guns, shoot regularly and have shot many different weapons in my time--this absolutely appears to be a firearm, he is handling it and using it in a way that he wants people to think that it's a firearm, and police cannot wait until someone gets shot or killed before responding with deadly force in a situation like this.

This was not a "death penalty," as you so ridiculously describe it, but I would definitely argue that it was probably a suicide by cop.

Your subjective parameters that you place on LEOs and what they should/could have done in a situation like this really demonstrate your lack of knowledge on the topic.