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originally posted by: joeraynor
a reply to: MikeA
It's really easy to not get shot by a cop. DO WHAT EVEN THEY TELL YOU TO DO THE FIRST TIME THEY SAY IT. As far as I'm concerned if a person runs from cops it's open season. They are not running for no reason, and they are not running because they're scared.
Usually. There are those times though... as in the recent Arizona case where the officer ordered the kid to do an impossible game of simon says, and crawl across the floor with his hands in the air, and then shot the kid for staggering and touching his waistband reflexively. We are not talking about a person as in this ridiculous video for this tread, where the guy clearly was simulating having a gun.
There are other cases where the police officer is fully in the wrong, treating calm and compliant citizens like garbage, and then executing them for making reflexive mistakes. Problems where officers are just either so paralyzed and overcome by fear they have no business being an officer, or they have contempt for the public... and have no business being an officer.
originally posted by: odzeandennz
So like most scenarios, there was no one hurt until the police showed up. Sounds about right.
Yeah I live in Arizona and know the case. Here's the thing I've stumbled a few times in my 53 years of living, never once did I have the reflex to reach for my waist band. What you call Simon says I call controlling the situation. And there in lies the problem. To many people seem to think that the cop they've never met knows what is in their mind. I don't know you, you don't know me. If I reach for my waist band when confronting you want an I doing?. Before you go bad mouthing their actions put on the badge and hit the street. Unless you've been cussed at and flipped off by every little punk on the street for doing your job protecting the decent people then I'd say you have not a single leg to stand on.
originally posted by: pavil
That was in no way the Cops fault with this one. Sure looked like a gun to me. People who called into the police described it as a gun as well. Sorry he died but it's not like they didn't have reason to shoot. Easy to second guess when you are not the one having something that looks like a gun pointed at you in a threatening manner.
originally posted by: SocratesJohnson
Do you personally have issues with cops??
Throwing that he has a mental issue in the title, like the cops should know.
Unless you want people with mental illness to have to get a tattoo or wear a symbol on their clothes? If not, how do you expect the cops to know that someone is crazy?
originally posted by: joeraynor
a reply to: MikeA
Yeah I live in Arizona and know the case. Here's the thing I've stumbled a few times in my 53 years of living, never once did I have the reflex to reach for my waist band. What you call Simon says I call controlling the situation. And there in lies the problem. To many people seem to think that the cop they've never met knows what is in their mind. I don't know you, you don't know me. If I reach for my waist band when confronting you want an I doing?. Before you go bad mouthing their actions put on the badge and hit the street. Unless you've been cussed at and flipped off by every little punk on the street for doing your job protecting the decent people then I'd say you have not a single leg to stand on.
Being a police officer is not a job for a coward. Here is why:
There is a spectrum of risk in encounters with law enforcement. That risk can either be born by the public, or it can be born by officers. Officers are the ones making the choice who bears the risk in this case.
Now if the public bears the majority of the risk, that effectively means the police are endangering the public, which effectively means they are harming society.
An officer is the person making a choice to be an officer. In doing so, they are accepting by the very nature of the job that they are inviting risk into their lives. So this person knowingly invited risk into their life by their choice of profession, but then they choose to offload that risk onto another person, who made no such agreement to bear risk?
My argument here is that when an officer is put into a situation where there is a slight risk they may come to harm, and in order to avoid that risk, they have to threaten the public, they should accept the risk, not threaten the public. It is not just a job. It is a job for a very special sort of person, and people outside that class should not be involved in that line of work.
It doesn't matter if I am the sort of person personally who is appropriate for the work or not. There aren't many who are is my point. There is a reason why military veterans often make good officers. They are often people acquainted with the concept they are accepting risk into their lives, they are used to that pressure, and it won't cause them to make irrational decisions.
originally posted by: subfab
the police were justified in this incident.
the 911 caller said the suspect had a firearm
the police had no choice but to react to the situation as it happened.
the police have a tough job to do. they deal with the worst people of our society. they are criticized over and over for simply doing their job.
originally posted by: truthnlies
totally justified imo , ida probably pulled my firearm if he would have done that to me on the street . esp if my child was with me. play stupid games , win stupid prizes.
originally posted by: MikeA
Yeah I live in Arizona and know the case. Here's the thing I've stumbled a few times in my 53 years of living, never once did I have the reflex to reach for my waist band. What you call Simon says I call controlling the situation. And there in lies the problem. To many people seem to think that the cop they've never met knows what is in their mind. I don't know you, you don't know me. If I reach for my waist band when confronting you want an I doing?. Before you go bad mouthing their actions put on the badge and hit the street. Unless you've been cussed at and flipped off by every little punk on the street for doing your job protecting the decent people then I'd say you have not a single leg to stand on.
originally posted by: Xtrozero
originally posted by: MikeA
Yeah I live in Arizona and know the case. Here's the thing I've stumbled a few times in my 53 years of living, never once did I have the reflex to reach for my waist band. What you call Simon says I call controlling the situation. And there in lies the problem. To many people seem to think that the cop they've never met knows what is in their mind. I don't know you, you don't know me. If I reach for my waist band when confronting you want an I doing?. Before you go bad mouthing their actions put on the badge and hit the street. Unless you've been cussed at and flipped off by every little punk on the street for doing your job protecting the decent people then I'd say you have not a single leg to stand on.
Now put you on the streets in Afghanistan where every other person has a gun and everyone looks at you threatening, and most likely wants to kill you for real...
Now shoot everyone that looks like they are going for their waist band.... Good luck with that...
originally posted by: MikeA
Again huh. Last time I looked the streets of the US are not a war zone. At least not where I live.
originally posted by: MikeA
originally posted by: Xtrozero
originally posted by: MikeA
Yeah I live in Arizona and know the case. Here's the thing I've stumbled a few times in my 53 years of living, never once did I have the reflex to reach for my waist band. What you call Simon says I call controlling the situation. And there in lies the problem. To many people seem to think that the cop they've never met knows what is in their mind. I don't know you, you don't know me. If I reach for my waist band when confronting you want an I doing?. Before you go bad mouthing their actions put on the badge and hit the street. Unless you've been cussed at and flipped off by every little punk on the street for doing your job protecting the decent people then I'd say you have not a single leg to stand on.
Now put you on the streets in Afghanistan where every other person has a gun and everyone looks at you threatening, and most likely wants to kill you for real...
Now shoot everyone that looks like they are going for their waist band.... Good luck with that...
Again huh. Last time I looked the streets of the US are not a war zone. At least not where I live.
originally posted by: MikeA
Tell me this who are the cops protecting if they leave the alone and he points that maybe gun at a passing car. The driver freeks and yanks the wheel running over a preschool class? Who's your concern for then? I'll tell you, for those kids "Why didn't the cops stop the guy? They were right there."
originally posted by: joeraynor
a reply to: amazing
I'd have to agree. The cops are way out of control in this country. They commit rape and murder on the regular with no consequences.
This does not look like one of those cases. This item looks VERY much like a handgun, and he aims the object in an incredibly aggressive manner, as though he plans to fire immediately. This person is aware that what he is doing looks very much like he is threatening people with a handgun. If this is a person with a serious psychiatric condition, it is a sad outcome, but not the fault of the officer.
This is suicide by cop and I would not fault the cop for this instance, if the cop wasn't aware of the full situation.
If you're a drug dealing dirt bag with a gun, you don't think you are accepting the risk because you don't have a badge? I'm sorry your argument makes no sense. If you are a criminal you are creating that risk, not the cop trying to stop you.
originally posted by: ZeroFurrbone
BS, Police are always reposonisble.
They never shoot in the legs or arms, they shoot in the body because they can't even aim.
And why they don't weak kevlar vests if they are scared of getting shot so much?
I don't care even if that was a toy gun, or a real gun. The person has to shoot first with bullets then the police to shoot him.
Anything else is just idiot police that can shoot whoever they want and then say it was ok cos it looked like he has a gun.
And the best part ? I can go in the use and shoot whoever i want whenever i want just because i feel threatened by them. You trying to rob me ? I kill you! You have a gun? I shoot you imediately because i feel threatened. You have a knife ? Headshot. This is what USA really is.
originally posted by: Xtrozero
originally posted by: MikeA
Tell me this who are the cops protecting if they leave the alone and he points that maybe gun at a passing car. The driver freeks and yanks the wheel running over a preschool class? Who's your concern for then? I'll tell you, for those kids "Why didn't the cops stop the guy? They were right there."
I didn't say leave him alone...I said maybe don't shoot first before you can understand the situation. You provide some extreme scenario that doesn't even make sense. Cops are called then they go there and assess the situation, and in this case we have a crazy guy running around pointing a shower head at people. At this point the cops can engage the person and in a physical manner if needed apprehend him and get him help.
originally posted by: ZeroFurrbone
BS, Police are always reposonisble.
They never shoot in the legs or arms, they shoot in the body because they can't even aim.
And why they don't weak kevlar vests if they are scared of getting shot so much?
I don't care even if that was a toy gun, or a real gun. The person has to shoot first with bullets then the police to shoot him.
Anything else is just idiot police that can shoot whoever they want and then say it was ok cos it looked like he has a gun.
And the best part ? I can go in the use and shoot whoever i want whenever i want just because i feel threatened by them. You trying to rob me ? I kill you! You have a gun? I shoot you imediately because i feel threatened. You have a knife ? Headshot. This is what USA really is.