What do you believe Christians believe?

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posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 09:26 AM
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Jake, I was raised catholic. Went to a catholic school. Played catholic school football. Did all the "cool" cathloic stuff. I too, only really got into the bible for a full read around 18 or 19. It was then I, as well as anyone looking objectively noticed some things. I noticed slight problems in it. Minor statement contradictions, and some hard core stuff never mentioned to me in catholic school. I read in full for the first times stories like noahs ark, coupled with the catholic belief system. I know that there are things in the bible that simply could not have happened. Yes, some of the bible is intended to be metaphorical, but if you find one instance that is not intended to be that way, and you can prove it didn't occur, then the entire bible is subject.

When people refuse to see things that way, then they refuse to think freely. Your fear of god scares you away from it. It is plain to see on these forums.

You can believe in god without the bible. The bible is indoctrination. Books pulled from different cultures and times, referring to different things.

You know, in the last 3 years or so I have noticed an increasingly larger group of christians prepared to retaliate against scientific claims. They are telling you waht to say, and you all blindly trust them. For instance, Jake here has spewed out some pretty scientific stuff. I can assure you he isn't majoring in physics or biology. I can also assure you he doesnt have bookshelfs full of mathematics books and science books. Yet he knows that the science is "lying to him". Even though he continuously lies to us.

The fact is jake, when you were 23, you may have read the bible for the first time. But whatever you believe now, has been indoctrinated into you from the person who was guiding your reading. We all know you will claim that you were doing it on your own, but you werent. Possibly a born again pentacostal sat along your side giving you his or her infinite wisdom, which being weak, you followed without question.

If you questioned your faith due to your own internal senses, and searched the bible as a result alone, you would be arguing with me right now, not against me.




posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 11:10 AM
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Originally posted by BaastetNoir
there is ONLY one type of Christian

the meaning of the word Christian = follower of Christ .

as simple as that , but man had to make it complicated and come up wit thousands of denominations that "bark" at eachother over who is right or wrong...UNITY is Strenght.....................................


Although I believe there is truth in what you are saying, I believe that Christians disagree. Not all, but many. We must generalize to a degree here. I have heard Mormons, Catholics, Southern Baptists, and Jehovah's Witnesses call themselves Christians - and their beliefs vary greatly.
I answered as I did, not because I believe in any of it, but because I was asked what I think Christians believe. I think they are quite a complex lot. The only things I can think of at the moment that might be true of all those who bear the title "Christian" would be:
Belief in Jesus, God, an after-life, a Devil / Satan creature, and a belief that only they know the truth.
Again, I am generalizing a bit. The complexity of the topic and the medium in which it has been presented requires that we do so to a degree.



posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by Seapeople
Both religions are christian, but they are significantly different.


A christian is someone who has accepted Jesus Christ as Savior. We believe that Jesus Christ paid our sin debt and that alone is why we have been forgiven and will have eternal life. That is an individual decision made by each one. The trouble comes in when there are denominations considered christian that are really not. The preach a different Jesus and way to heaven. Christ said you must be born again. This is an internal decision that someone makes with their soul. Then that will result in a change in that person both inside and out. It requires a surrender to God and that is something not everyone understands, and something not everyone who claims the title of christian has done.



posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by Seapeople
Jake, I was raised catholic.


It doesn't surprise me that you turned away from the catholic church. It doesn't teach someone how to be saved nor what a person's responsibilities are after being saved. It's a good thing you don't practice the catholic ways. You are actually in a better position now to know Christ then you would be if you were in the practicing catholicism.

















[edit on 20-2-2005 by dbrandt]



posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by BaastetNoir
there is ONLY one type of Christian

the meaning of the word Christian = follower of Christ .



I'm going to repeat this again, a christian is someone who has accepted Christ and His completed work on the cross as the ONLY basis of their salvation. After that a person is changed from the inside out. There life is different because they are different. I hate to beat a dead horse but every denomination and every single individual who uses the name christian is not one. There are many who claim to be of Christ but are not.

[edit on 20-2-2005 by dbrandt]



posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by jake1997
I was raised as a catholic
I was sent to all the classes
My family is catholic
My dog tags are stamped cathoic

I finally read the bible around age 23

I am no longer catholic

So much for believing what I am told to believe


Hope you didnt become a Baptist ...LOL



posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 01:19 PM
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So sorry, I didn't mean to cause anyone to have to "beat a dead horse." I am also disappointed in the attacks against Christians.


Originally posted by junglejake
So I'm curious as to what non-Christians believe Christians believe, and why you believe we believe it.


I think that open attacks from anyone are not what this thread was about. Junglejake didn't say, "Here is a thread where Christians get to correct everyone," nor did JJ say, "Here is a place where you can bash Christianity." Something else JJ didn't say is, "So I'm curious as to what non-Christians believe dbrandt believes," or "What is the definition of Christianity."

Unless I completely misunderstand JJ, what is called for are theories on what Christians believe from people who are not Christians.

I believe that we were asked what we think a Christian believes. I think Christians believe in the Bible. It's an awfully thick book and contains much more than, "Follow Christ period." It contains the Christian stories of creation, it contains family trees, it contains the Ten Comandments and others, it contains a rich (though partial) history of several cultures, it contains faith inspired works of poetry, it contains more than I can possibly tell you here in this post.

To hear some of you talk, Christians don't believe in the Bible. No, not at all. All Christians believe is that they should follow Jesus.

Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't call you a Christian at all if you don't believe that God created the universe. Do you not believe in the Holy Spirit? Do you not believe that Satan or Heaven are real? Will you tell me that there was no Exodus from Egypt? No burning bush?

I give up. I have no idea what Christians believe at all.



posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 01:44 PM
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Dbrandt,

You referred to John 3:16. And how some denominations of christianity never preach about how to get saved. In other words, what you are saying is that other religions do not preach as strongly about John 3:16. They are selectively choosing to follow other portions of the bible more seriously maybe?

What would you say, if I found 50 verses from the bible basically telling you that John 3:16 is a crock of crap? Just so you understand where I stand on this, I will explain. According to the backwards thinking of those who believe so strongly in acts and john 3:16 (mostly pentecostals), Jeffrey Dahmer is in heaven right this very second. He accepted the lord.....

There are countless other verses in the bible that state otherwise though.

So, when you say that other denominations are choosing selectively to believe certain portions of the bible, you are saying that you also do it yourself. I am glad you are here to tell us what we are to selectively believe.....



posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 04:55 PM
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Originally posted by Seapeople
Dbrandt,

You referred to John 3:16.
What would you say, if I found 50 verses from the bible basically telling you that John 3:16 is a crock of crap? Jeffrey Dahmer is in heaven right this very second. He accepted the lord.....

There are countless other verses in the bible that state otherwise though.

So, when you say that other denominations are choosing selectively to believe certain portions of the bible, you are saying that you also do it yourself. I am glad you are here to tell us what we are to selectively believe.....



My point is some denominations are false. Many teach works as a means of salvation, that is not Biblical and I felt I needed to write that in this thread because nonchristians are being asked to tell what christianity is and that is like asking an average person to do brain surgery. I want it clearly stated what a christian is somewhere on this thread, so no one thinks it's what it isn't.

I believe the whole Bible I don't know where you come up with I said I select parts.

I believe when it says being born again is required for salvation that is a bigger deal than a person thinks. That is a decision that results in a new condition that is internal and shows evidence externally. The Bible clearly says that not everyone who says Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven. Those denied entrance based their salvation on works, not on the completed work Christ has already done, and they lived their own way. They may have known "about" Jesus but they never accepted Him as Savior and Lord. They probably also never accepted the fact that they have a sinful nature that is an offense to God. It's an internal in your soul decision first. Then a person will do good things because they are saved, not to be saved.

The Bible also says many will come in Christ's name saying I AM and deceive many. This means they will claim the name of Christ but will not be true. And deceive means to be tricked and you don't know you are being tricked.

If, I say if jeffrey Dahmer accepted Christ as He soul means of salvation and meant it he went to heaven when he died. Only God knows if he meant it.



posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 05:12 PM
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All I know is that they believe that an omnipresent "God" created and controls the universe.

They do, to their credit, have a sound moral belief system based on the ideas of Jesus of Nazareth.

One thing I do not understand is how the death of Jesus "saved our souls", as nobody can explain it to me without using biblical verses which really do not tell me anything. Christians state it as fact that Jesus died for their sins. Ask them how he managed to alleviate everyone's sins by dying on the cross, and they are at a loss. You will be told another non-sensical fairytale.



posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 05:52 PM
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Dbrandt, the whole bible?

Every word?


Are you sure?



posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 07:48 PM
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Originally posted by Seapeople
Dbrandt, the whole bible?

Every word?


Are you sure?


Yes, do I know everything it has to say yet, no.
Ex. Some christians say capital punishment is what should be done according to the Bible and I know some of the verses they use.

I would lean away from that because when the women caught in adultery was to be stoned Jesus didn't condemn her to death, but he let her know she shouldn't do it anymore.
Am I right I believe so, could I be wrong Yes.




[edit on 20-2-2005 by dbrandt]



posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by CiderGood_HeadacheBad
One thing I do not understand is how the death of Jesus "saved our souls", as nobody can explain it to me without using biblical verses which really do not tell me anything. Christians state it as fact that Jesus died for their sins. Ask them how he managed to alleviate everyone's sins by dying on the cross, and they are at a loss. You will be told another non-sensical fairytale.


You get a traffic ticket and have a fine to pay or go spend time in jail. You don't have the money for the fine. The judge says your going to jail. Someone else sitting in the courtroom has compassion for you and pays your fine for you. The ticket has been paid the court is satisfied so you don't go to jail.

In the symbolism concerning our "sin ticket" that we owed the person who had compassion was the judge himself. He knew what the law said and that you couldn't pay the price. The soul that sins, it shall die. Sin had to be dealt with. If someone else died in your place the law would be satified. So the judge took off his robe and came from the bench, down to where you were. He took upon himself your sin as if he had actually done it and died for your sin. God literally placed your sin upon Himself and he died in your place. It was completely by the grace and mercy of God that this was done.

The mercy of God is not receiving what we deserve, death for our sins.
The grace of God is receiving what we don't deserve, forgiveness of sins.

The law had been satisfied, sin was dealt with.



posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 08:36 PM
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Well, if you believe every word of the bible, what were Jesus' last words?



posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 09:00 PM
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Originally posted by Truth

" 99% "


I am part of the one percent who grew up the opposite of a true christian family, never even knew who Jesus or
what a Christian was until I was 18, im 23 now. God literally, God through his grace and miracles taught me this stuff. I was
not raised nowhere near christian, raised with morals but not with Christ.


Believe it if you want but its true.


peace.



same here. i was raised nowhere near a christian family, but ive always believed there is a God and that he can do anything he wants and even has a sence of humor.



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 10:10 PM
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I believe what the Bible says!!! I

I guess this is WHY I believe.....

Life is a bit more complicated than I thought it would be when I was in my 20/30's. I AM a Christian, by that I mean I have chosen to believe that I am imperfect and needed His intervention. I have come to this conclusion primarily upon LOGIC, not faith. Faith is one of those enigma's in today's vocabulary that has lost it's meaning or has been interpreted differently by so many. My journey to this conclusion has a few factors that I will share with the forum/thread.

Point 1

Again before I go on I will try and be LOGIC-based and not bring in a bunch of Christian-eze mumbo jumbo.

Point 1

Remember Back to the Future and the Delorian (sp?) Imagine if you were Micheal J Fox and some one asked you to go to five (only 5) different time zones/geographical areas and meet one person in each time zone/area and ask them, "please write a book about God, I'll be back in 5 years to collect it."

Five years later you went and picked up the five books. Logically speaking what are the chances those five books would agree? What are the chances those five books would build upon one another? What are the chances you could make any semblance out of them...to live by or the like? Snowballs in your know where, right?

Different people! Different cultures! Difference Time frames! Different Premises! Different World view! etc etc...

Logically speaking you would have five unconnected books with five different perspectives, right?

Well, the Bible (torah, prophets, gospels, epistles, revelation) are not 5 books by five authors, but66 books by 40 authors...who did not know one another, did not live in the same town, did not live in the same time line...authors were of every occupation and financial status........yet......the Bible is a one-themed, continuing story. Doesn't prove it God's Word yet though...just something that might warrant another look.

Point 2

Here's an undisputable fact (I believe at least after examining) Jesus of Nazareth claimed to be God, his followers claimed He claimed to be God...and...non Christian journalist (such as Josephus) claimed He claimed he was God. Doesn't appear here to be different agendas going on. He said it, His followers said He said it, third parties said He said it and even his enemies said He said it (Sanhedrin, Pharisies, etc)

SO...with all that said...we have only two LOGICAL outcomes. No religious double-talk here) Either you BELIEVE or you REJECT. Really no other options right? If you believe, then to you HE IS LORD. If you REJECT there are really only two options for you.

1) JC knew he wasn't telling the truth, therefore he would be A LIAR

2) JC didn't know he wasn't telling the truth, therefore he would be A LUNATIC.

That's the only three logical outcomes...LIAR, LUNATIC of LORD. There is no room for him being a good guy and all, no room for him being a prophet as every other religion on the face of the earth calls him. Because prophets don't lie and they are not usually in psych wards.

Point 3

Most direct followers were killed for believing in JC. If they had stole his body and the romans excused, at least one of them would have squilled just before their execution right? I would have...but NO-All these ordinary folks were willing to die for what they saw...WOW!


I have much more reasons why I choose now to believe, that I'll share later. hope this creates some more interesting discussions. Thanks for the opportunity guys!

Old Thinker
Phillipians 1:3





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