How are those Gun Laws working out for you, England?

Man in his 20s is stabbed to death to become 12th capital murder victim in 19 days as London killing rate overtakes New York's for first time

Two cities in the world that are known for their tight gun control, yet New York is in the US where our gun controls are much more relaxed. We often hear that gun control is working for countries where they are banned or where it's very hard to obtain one. I suppose it's true... If someone wants to kill someone else, they really don't need a gun to do it.

The victim's death comes as London's murder rates have overtaken New York City 's numbers for the first time ever.

February marked the first month in history books that London had more murders than the American city with a total of 15 homicides. Out of the 15 killed, nine were aged 30 or younger.

In March, there were 22 murders, which is likely to match if not beat out New York's numbers.

The man's death on Sunday marks the 12th murder in London in 19 days.

According to a report by the Sunday Times, New York City's murder statistics have decreased by 87 per cent since the 1990s.

Meanwhile, London's rate has grown by nearly 40 per cent in just three years, not including deaths caused by terrorist attacks.

Although New York last year had nearly double the number of murders than London, experts are concerned the gap is steadily closing.

Seems it's even scarier in London since no one knows when you're going to be the next target. It's like a raffle, according to this news source.

Jacob Whittingham, charity head of programmes for Fight for Peace, told the paper: 'What's scary about London is the randomness of the crime.

'With young people in London, you have no idea if and when you may be the victim of a violent crime — that's why they feel the need to carry weapons.'

Officials are concerned about the uptick in fatal stabbings, fearing there is a dangerous surge in knife crime.

Last year there was a total of 80 fatal stabbings in the capital - the most in almost a decade.

And official figures show that 2017 was the worst year for knife deaths among young people since at least 2002.

Forty-six people aged 25 or under were stabbed to death in London, up by 21 compared with the previous year, according to police figures.

I suppose they're going to blame knives. Knives kill people! Maybe they'll be banned next?

Nah... That's too easy. Let's ban Social Media! They're to blame

DCS Sean Yates, Scotland Yard's head of knife crime, blamed social media as an increasing factor in escalating grudges between youngsters that led to knife attacks.

This one kind of tickled me.

'London must come together to make it clear that this cannot continue. We will not police our way out of this problem.'

I mean, this has worked before, right?

Well, the cops on our streets aren't killed at a greater rate than marines in Kandahar, so whenever one pulls you over for speeding, you know he isn't going to be fearing for his life so much that he'll have his gun in your face while you reach for your licence.

Sure some folks get stabby, but overall, I think our gun laws work for us.

originally posted by: StallionDuck
Man in his 20s is stabbed to death to become 12th capital murder victim in 19 days as London killing rate overtakes New York's for first time

Two cities in the world that are known for their tight gun control, yet New York is in the US where our gun controls are much more relaxed. We often hear that gun control is working for countries where they are banned or where it's very hard to obtain one. I suppose it's true... If someone wants to kill someone else, they really don't need a gun to do it.

The victim's death comes as London's murder rates have overtaken New York City 's numbers for the first time ever.

February marked the first month in history books that London had more murders than the American city with a total of 15 homicides. Out of the 15 killed, nine were aged 30 or younger.

In March, there were 22 murders, which is likely to match if not beat out New York's numbers.

The man's death on Sunday marks the 12th murder in London in 19 days.

According to a report by the Sunday Times, New York City's murder statistics have decreased by 87 per cent since the 1990s.

Meanwhile, London's rate has grown by nearly 40 per cent in just three years, not including deaths caused by terrorist attacks.

Although New York last year had nearly double the number of murders than London, experts are concerned the gap is steadily closing.

Seems it's even scarier in London since no one knows when you're going to be the next target. It's like a raffle, according to this news source.

Jacob Whittingham, charity head of programmes for Fight for Peace, told the paper: 'What's scary about London is the randomness of the crime.

'With young people in London, you have no idea if and when you may be the victim of a violent crime — that's why they feel the need to carry weapons.'

Officials are concerned about the uptick in fatal stabbings, fearing there is a dangerous surge in knife crime.

Last year there was a total of 80 fatal stabbings in the capital - the most in almost a decade.

And official figures show that 2017 was the worst year for knife deaths among young people since at least 2002.

Forty-six people aged 25 or under were stabbed to death in London, up by 21 compared with the previous year, according to police figures.

I suppose they're going to blame knives. Knives kill people! Maybe they'll be banned next?

Nah... That's too easy. Let's ban Social Media! They're to blame

DCS Sean Yates, Scotland Yard's head of knife crime, blamed social media as an increasing factor in escalating grudges between youngsters that led to knife attacks.

This one kind of tickled me.

'London must come together to make it clear that this cannot continue. We will not police our way out of this problem.'

I mean, this has worked before, right?

From the linked article.

'
Although New York last year had nearly double the number of murders than London, experts are concerned the gap is steadily closing'

Half of one the US safest big cities. Murder rate in London is less than half that of the US.


So in answer to your question, still pretty well thanks for asking.

Gun laws here in England suck! Only the criminals have guns here.
I shoot shotguns at a club and wish I could own a hand gun for club shooting. Violence here is getting worse and I would love a gun for self defence.

I don't see myself as a target but too many people carry knives. Unfortunately there have been too many cuts to the police force.

a reply to: StallionDuck

Going well thanks, many states in America have a higher gun related murder count than all of the United Kingdom put together - how's that working for you?

Is there a reason you have to be so gun obsessed, Right wing Americans? Any reason you feel this constant need to vindicate yourself while your children are killed?

UK gun laws work pretty damn well thanks!

In the last 25 years, in the whole of the UK (not just England), I can only think of two mass/spree shooting events.
Dunblane in 1996 and the Cumbria shootings in 2010. In total, I think around 28 people, unfortunately, lost their lives in those incidents.

In the US the figures from 1st Jan 2013 to the Parkland Shooting in February 2018 are dead 1,875 and injured 6,848.
Source: The Guardian The Guardian US Shooting Stats

So unless you're totally insane I think you can see gun control works better over here.

Yes, there is a rise in knife crime and even acid being used as a weapon and this needs to be addressed quickly but it is still harder to kill a lot of people with a knife than a Los Vegas stile shooter, so I'll happily live with our gun control thanks.

a reply to: SprocketUK

Well, the cops on our streets aren't killed at a greater rate than marines in Kandahar

They are in Chicago with that fabulous gun control.

a reply to: StallionDuck

Countrywide we're not so bad thanks - how do national murder rates compare? Personally though i find it pretty stupid to seriously compare the nations in this manner as our different sizes, population densities, history and culture (etc) are a major factor in the issue.
If i lived in the states i'd want a gun for self defence but here in the UK the chance of me encountering a crim with a gun is tiny.
And i seriously believe it would be carnage if gun control suddenly stopped here. Not enough of an established culture of gun safety and ownership to support it.
But who cares eh. Lets compare apples to oranges and score imaginary points while ignoring the enormous planks in our own eyes.

originally posted by: SoEpic
Gun laws here in England suck! Only the criminals have guns here.
I shoot shotguns at a club and wish I could own a hand gun for club shooting. Violence here is getting worse and I would love a gun for self defence.

I don't see myself as a target but too many people carry knives. Unfortunately there have been too many cuts to the police force.

Canada has loosened gun ownership laws in the last few years even though it's generally not known by the average Canadian. If your a member of a gun club, you can own both rifles and hand guns. In fact, I know you can receive a permit to own an AR-15.

The restrictions are beyond belief, however, and the only time they can reasonably be used is outright chaos. This is reason for my reply, if you state your ownership as being for home defense, you can be charged with premeditated murder. The logic being 'home defense' is, in fact, a knowing and calculated effort.

So 'if' the home intruder also has a gun- a matching weapon- and you have no means of escape- a window or door, for example- you can use your gun. If that intruder has a knife, a baseball bat, a machete and you use that gun, you will be charged with murder. Irrespective of risk to family members in other parts of the home.

So the rule of thumb is to state your purchase of that gun as 'target practice', thereby lowering the charge from premeditated murder to perhaps manslaughter. Cough. cough.

Social issues vs individual sovereignty. That's the difference between the U.S. and other nations views of it. Both have consequences.

Many laugh at the claims of U.S. freedom. Perhaps rightly so. Yet, that one issue, individual sovereignty, isn't quite dead, yet. It hangs by a thread, but it's still there. Nowhere else....

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: SprocketUK

Well, the cops on our streets aren't killed at a greater rate than marines in Kandahar

They are in Chicago with that fabulous gun control.

Amazing you would think the border checkpoints all round Chicago would do better at stopping guns coming in...

Population:

England: 53m

USA: 326m

originally posted by: StallionDuck
Population:

England: 53m

USA: 326m

Homicide rate:

UK : 1.2

USA: 4.7

a reply to: SoEpic

Gun laws here in England suck!

Gun laws here are just fine.

Only the criminals have guns here.

The vast majority of criminals here in the UK don't use guns.

More guns here would only result in more deaths.

I shoot shotguns at a club and wish I could own a hand gun for club shooting.

Anyone can own and use shotguns here in the UK providing safety regulations and background check requirements are met.
Hand gun restrictions do seem quite severe.....but then again we have amazingly low hand gun related deaths so maybe they are just fine?

Violence here is getting worse.....

No it isn't - things were far, far more violent back in the 80's and 90's.
The reporting, measuring and tolerance of violent crimes has definitely changed - a reflection of the overall changes within our society.

.... and I would love a gun for self defence.

Why?
Have you ever been in a situation where the possession of a gun would have made a significant difference?

I don't see myself as a target but too many people carry knives.

People have always carried knives and slashings were fairly common years ago.
There is a general perception that knife crime is something new; not at all but I'd tend to agree that knife related deaths do seem to be increasing, perhaps someone could supply some stats to either confirm or deny that impression.

Unfortunately there have been too many cuts to the police force.

On that we can most definitely agree - the party of law and order have been in my opinion criminally negligent in cutting funding and resources to our police forces.
To what end? A discussion for another thread methinks.

Comparing UK and US gun laws is apples and pears.

Gun ownership is entrenched in the collective US psyche and its a matter for the US alone.
From the outside looking in it does seem pretty obvious that something just isn't right but whether gun controls are the answer or whether the relatively large number of gun related deaths etc are just a manifestation of a deeper malaise within US society only Americans can ask themselves and hopefully start addressing.

We have enough problems of our own here in the UK, we don't need to add to them by relaxing our gun control laws.

So what has changed in London over the last three years?

Anything regarding demographics?

Are this generation of Londoners just getting more violent

originally posted by: SoEpic
I don't see myself as a target but too many people carry knives. Unfortunately there have been too many cuts to the police force.

No pun intended I hope?

originally posted by: SocratesJohnson
So what has changed in London over the last three years?

Anything regarding demographics?

Are this generation of Londoners just getting more violent

While homicide rate has increased its been from an all time low level a few years back. Since we have had a period of cuts to police funding is an increase in crime really surprising?

Our gun laws are fine thanks.
We get the odd shooting now and then, but not very often. Knife crime on the other hand has always been an issue, and not just in the U.K.
If you clamp down on guns, criminals will find another way to get things done.

a reply to: SocratesJohnson

Anything regarding demographics?

I wonder if anyone has the bottle to answer that question truthfully?

I don't have an issue with blaming social meddling but really, let's just cut the BS and lay the blame squarely where it belongs. Let's just blame youngsters for not behaving themselves and be done with it.

It's not just social meddling. It's the whole climate that is just hopelessly polluted with rotten ideas that screw people's minds up.

originally posted by: Freeborn


More guns here would only result in more deaths.

why?