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"non" tippers are a zero sum in society

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posted on Apr, 2 2018 @ 11:45 PM
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originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: violet




So go ahead and quit your job, see if you are missed.


Serving will always be a go to job for many and it is quite lucrative, depending where you work... but it is not as easy and brainless as some make it out to be.

Some very popular servers are missed if they quit, especially good bartenders that customers have befriended. I’ve seen a lot of customers switch to another pub where that bartender now works. A good owner should have a keen awareness of how valued his employees are.. because it will make a difference in the amount as well as type of clientele you attract.


Completely agree. However, I wasn’t under the impression the OP was in the scenario you describe




posted on Apr, 2 2018 @ 11:51 PM
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a reply to: tadaman

I didn’t ask for “more”. Had I asked for more I would most certainly tip accordingly.



posted on Apr, 2 2018 @ 11:54 PM
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a reply to: violet

Fair enough.

No worries. I am the first to not expect a tip if I only do a crappy, mediocre or basic job.

Have good one.


edit on 4 2 2018 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 3 2018 @ 06:05 AM
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I don't tip, Most Australians don't. Guess it's a cultural thing.
Well we do tip, just not out of an automatic response we've been programmed to do. But when we feel someone has given us exceptional service above and beyond what we're paying for or we're feeling generous.

For us though we have the belief that we're paying for a product or service in the cost of what we're buying.
Be it a meal, a taxi fare, or a new TV.
Maybe if like here, peoples pays were the responsibility of the employer, not the customer, folks wouldn't hate on non tippers so much in countries where tipping is the norm, folks wouldn't feel they are owed a tip for just doing their job.

Plus where do tippers draw the line? If you tip a waitress on minimum wage, do you also tip an underpaid secretary at offices you have business with. Drop $5 in a jar on her desk on the way out? If not why not?
You know, equality and all that.

The real solution may not be to hate on or vilify non-tippers, but maybe people need to campaign their governments to get people better working conditions and fair days pay for a fair days work.

But be careful how you proceed. And if you look at countries like Australia as an example. Which I often see many Americans doing, be prepared for a domino effect.

Let me give you an example. Figures are just examples I am pulling out of my head and are not exact. Just trying to get the point across.

One meme I often see on social media is McDonalds as an example.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's goes something like:
In the U.S A McDonalds worker gets $8 an hour and a Big Mac costs $6.

Yet in Australia a Mcdonalds worker earns at least $16 hour minimum with a 2% pay increase each year, and a Big Mac costs them $4!!!

HOW IS THIS SO WHEN THE U.S IS THE MIGHTIEST CAPITALIST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I then see a lot of Americans like and upvote such posts. While I sit there pissing my self laughing.

Because there is much to consider with such things. Like facts.

First time I saw such a post. I rang two Mcdonalds. One in the U.S and one in Australia. I asked how much a Big Mac cost. U.S Big Macs were not just a lot cheaper than Australia, when you just went $1 = $1 but when you actually did an USD to AUD conversion, Big Macs were even moreso cheaper.

Because $1.00AUD = $0.77USD is not the same thing.

See our costs of living are some of the highest in the world. Especially being so far south with transportation costs.
So we pay more per gallon for petrol (gas) food, houses and rent, and basically everything than an American does.
Sure you may hear us being paid $20 AUD an hour in SOME NOT ALL jobs. Yes AUD not $20USD as many seem to ignore. So that's currently actually $15USD an hour.
And while you may pay $0.50usd for 2 litres of Soda, we're paying $3.80usd for it.
A house that may cost you $50,000usd we could pay $230,000USD for a similar house here.

So it is really important to keep such things in mind when making a comparison to other countries. Many of us here are honestly not as rich as many seem to think we are. Hence why we have a lot of what is termed "economic refugees."

Now with that in mind, what's all that got to do with that "domino effect" I mentioned earlier?

Well see we used to have things cheaper here back before the late 80's. Before our dollar went on the international market, and we had much lower pay rates much like the U.S has. Yet still tipping was not a common practice. So we literally only had what our employers paid us. So you guys were still in front thanks to tipping.

Anyway, we got higher and higher pay rates thanks to unions, going on strike etc. And demanding better conditions.
Which sounds great. A win for the common folk.
But here the thing, you knock one domino over, they all start tumbling.

Workers now had higher pays, so do you think CEO's and company boards said:

"Okay we need to pay our workers more, it's all good. Instead of making $10 billion profit this year, we'll make $9billion. It's all good because hey we're still making an insane profit."

Nope they said:
"No @#$%ing way that's coming out of our pocket and profits. Increase the prices of our products. It's all good because those plebs can afford it."

They said:
"Hey if the workers can get a pay rise, then I the manager/the ceo/the directors should get a pay rise too! But make it way more than the workers get each year."

So while our pays went say from $10 to $20 over quite a few years. The ceo types pays went from $100,000 to $1million a year.
And the cost of living inflated much higher and faster than our pay rates did. Houses that were from $30,000 20 years ago, can cost $250000 - $500000 now. (Not helped by foreign investors snapping up properties when they were cheap which also drove prices up.)

The knock on effect was great and the only winners were those at the top of the social and monetary food chain.

So yeah, two points I am trying to make here.

1.) Don't hate the tipper. hate the system that forces minimum wage earners to be screwed without tips.
You work hard, you should be paid a suitable amount. e.g enough to live comfortably on, regardless of if you flip burgers at a McDonalds or are a brain surgeon. If you're not being paid enough. Don't bitch on the internet. Go do something IRL about it.
You think you'd have independence if Americans only complained about the British on facebook?

2.) Be careful what you wish for. Because you might just get it. As the saying goes.
Learn from Australia's mistakes, and be sure when you get a proper standard of living wage there are blocks in place to stop the inevitable domino effect that will follow. Inflation like everything including currency is a man made thing.
Things only get more expensive because humans say they should. Make sure you ask for laws that give a pay rise and a lock on the rates of interest and inflation.

But yeah. This is what happens in Western capitalism based societies. You cannot say capitalism is great, but ignore it and cry when it's screwing you over every day.

Tipping may not be a city in China, but in a civilized modern society where all are supposed to be equal. Maybe a fictional city is all it should be.

But yes. It's not gonna change like nothing ever does, if all you do to fix it is bitch and rant on facebook, twitter, youtube and website forums and nothing else.

Get off your arse and change the world like our ancestors did. No one is going to do it for you.

"Viva le revolution" as they used say. It's the only thing any government or the controlling rich will ever pay attention too.
Or keep on typing and earn $3 an hour +tips and work like a pack mule until your dead simply struggling to get through each day on the basics.

Seriously if people would just undo the programming and 'learned' habits of nonsense man made concepts like national pride, patriotism, labels such as left or right, US vs THEM, realised things only have value because some rich types say they do and used a bit of common sense and logic. We could honestly be living in a Utopia where everyone is living the dream instead of the majority of us living to keep a select few above the water line and livin' large.

Stop fighting among yourselves and take it to the real enemy. That's what your 2nd amendment and such is really for after all yes?
/rant

edit on 3-4-2018 by AtomicKangaroo because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 3 2018 @ 07:13 AM
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a reply to: badw0lf

Fellow Aussie and while I agree on not tipping but 'keep the change' here's a fun fact.
My wifes a taxi driver. She, like many get's paid per fare not hourly.

Basically %50 of the fare before taxes. And the other 50% goes to the owner of the taxi.
So if a fare is only 4 dollars. Yep you get people that expect to be driven 100m down the road, and it's illegal to refuse them. A fare that could be stopping her from a getting a $30 fare. She will only make $2 on that fare, and again that's before taxes.

She does about 45 hours a week, with no holiday leave or sick pay, or other benefits most other jobs in this country have like superannuation because the way they do it is you're subcontracting and technically working for yourself, she earns, like many other drivers I have spoken too. A mere $10 an hour and once more, before taxes.

Oddly though a lot of her passengers think taxi drivers make a fortune. (and maybe they do in major cities, but not regional towns) and a lot of people act like entitled dicks. She has to also clean up peoples vomits not to mention certain types that don't even bother paying and try to run on the fare. Because "hey the fine will just get taken out of my centrelink later lol" as well as aggressive, abusive drunks.
And now they have to compete with Uber drivers to boot, who rake it in as Uber generally costs more than a taxi and they do not have to pay all the fees etc that Taxi drivers do as Uber is nowhere near as regulated yet.
Not to mention there is a lot of corruption and favoritism in the industry in this region I could write a book on.

Sure she could get another job. And believe me she's looking. But to get a job there needs to be jobs to get to begin with.
Sad fact, if you filled every available job in this country, let alone planet. There would still be hundreds of thousands and millions of people respectively still unemployed.

And even though I earn more than she does doing much easier work, we cannot afford to be without her income, even for a week.

I will say though not sure exactly why the drivers in the area of QLD don't have a union and are fighting for better treatment. I keep pushing her and the ones I am friends with to contact an existing Union for help or form their own. # won't change unless they do something about it as I state in my last post. So it is partly on them I won't deny.

So when I catch a cab, it's pretty much the one service in Australia where I will tip the worker.

Anyway it's maybe just something to think about next time you're catching a taxi. Ask the cabbie if they own the cab.
If not they're probably making less than a McDonalds worker or a Pizza Hut driver and possibly a good example of when the system is broken, and those paid to look out for such workers are failing.

People need to get off their backsides and do what is needed to get it done. I'm always trying too but just cannot seem to get anyone to fight for themselves anymore. Cannot help those who will not help themselves as they say.

Kind of sad so many people seem to have become "don't want to rock the boat, keep my head down to not be a target" types.
Wish more people would get their backbones back. Infuriates me how it is. A lot of people I meet when they find out such things still exist in the country are genuinely shocked, but alas they too want to do nothing about it.

But yeah. Next time you're in a cab. Ask the taxi driver a few questions, you might be surprised.
edit on 3-4-2018 by AtomicKangaroo because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 3 2018 @ 07:48 AM
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a reply to: tadaman

Arent you already getting paid by your employer ? so what makes the food industry so special that employees need to be tipped ,, because they do their job well ?

do you tip the cashier at the bank , tip the girl behind the counter at your fav clothing store
or the lady at the grocery store ?

Do you tip the trash man for collecting your trash ?

This entitlement that those who work in the food industry deserve to be tipped !



posted on Apr, 3 2018 @ 08:34 AM
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a reply to: sapien82

I can feel a bit of sympathy for those who work in some small town diner for $3 an hour.
But less so for the ones that make an easy $20+ an hour via wages and tips in a fancy busy restaurant.

But of course the solution as I mentioned in my first post is a simple one.
Go on strike, unionize, and lobby government for a fair living wage.

Maybe more American food services could try charging more and piling less food on the plate per serve and pay their staff more.
But sadly that would be deemed a not very American capitalistic way of doing things.

Seriously, it blows my mind when I see these U.S food shows on TV where the diners etc. they feature, give a single customer enough food for 5 people to eat for next to nothing.

If that is a reality, then the problem and solutions seem to be painfully obvious.

Like many countries problems. Often they are ones fixed by a change of mindset and perception.



posted on Apr, 3 2018 @ 09:13 AM
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a reply to: AtomicKangaroo

I dont really sympathise because if they want more money or better pay then they need to apply themselves like every other person on earth ! no one will give you something for nothing , and that is exactly what is happening !
Believe it or not but waiters , waitresses work in the food industry otherwise known as hospitality and its their job to provide good customer service , and with a smile !

So you are basically getting tips from people just for doing your job !

I wish the public would tip me for providing accessible web services , but it doesnt work like that

Im on the lowest paid rung of the government ladder here in the UK , If I want more money , im not going to ask the government to raise my salary as Ive been on a "recession" pay freeze since 2008 , and I cant ask anyone for tips ! ,If I want more money I have to earn that myself , luckily I work as a freelance graphic designer and graffiti artist, and I do jobs for folk here and there and that certainly helps ! If I want more money for my full time job I'll have to apply myself, See I want to get into the design team or any graphic design house, but I need to educate and work hard and build my port folio.

and you know what # the tax man , if Apple and Google can Dodge 16 billion in tax , then Im not paying tax on my 200 quid I earned painting a mural for someone !

that in my opinion is free trade outwith the government it has nothing to do with them and is a favour between friends ,isnt even business its just a personal exchange!

Im in a union at my work but the government have changed legislation so that its harder to organise a strike and industrial action . It's a #ing joke

Anyone believing we in the west still live in a democracy are #in delusional



posted on Apr, 3 2018 @ 09:25 AM
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a reply to: sapien82

That much bitterness over tipping a server can make a person sick.
Try and not think about it, then. Sorry you can't get tips.






posted on Apr, 3 2018 @ 09:37 AM
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a reply to: angeldoll

Im not bitter, I do tip when I eat out , but its money for nothing and the only industry where tips occur !

people getting paid extra from the public just for doing their job !

Im not bitter about it , just think its a bit cheeky for them to ask for more

instead of sitting with your hands out , put them to work and make up the difference yourself !

my parents instilled the idea that if I want something I can get it myself , and you should work hard to earn your way
but at the same time, if you dont ask you dont get ! another of my parents teachings, quite contradictory !
but that is life for you!


edit on 3-4-2018 by sapien82 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 3 2018 @ 09:39 AM
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a reply to: tadaman

Having worked in the restaurant business for over 20yrs. I would like to chime in here. While I do sympathize for the servers tip plight and I do think everyone should tip at least 15%. I would like to point a few things out. It's tough as a back of house employee to listen to these type of complaints without some resentment.
Here is why. Lol

Front of house tipped employees on average make far more than the hourly back of house workers. They also work less hours typically 6 to 7 hrs per shift. I have even heard servers refer to an 8hr shift as a "double".

Servers will often not report all there cash tips to avoid paying taxes on it.

One of my personal favorites is when servers use the minimum wage excuse to get out of doing any work that isn't part of their side work. "Thats not part of my job I only make minimum wage". The truth is most servers in a good busy restaurant will make more money than salaried managers for the year and work far less hours. It's very hard to find a competent person who wants to be a foh manager they work more hours for less money and have far more responsibility than a server.

Many servers will Grat a table if they feel the guests aren't going to tip. Most places will automatically add Gratuity to a table over a certain number of guests. In those cases I have never in the many years of eating out have I heard a server tell a table that gratuity is included. In fact I worked at a place that added a 18% gratuity to every table. The servers there would complain "that table stiffed me" if the guests didn't tip on top of the 18%.

Perhaps I have been in the business for to long. But servers are generally "me" type people often acting like the bussers, bartenders, and food runners work for them. They hate to run food that doesn't go to their table often replying "This food runner sucks why should I tip him out". Team work is more the exception than the norm in the foh.

Nothing but a bunch of table beggers! "Please sir I know I didn't make the food or the drinks or clear the table or even seat you but I did take and put your order in the pos system correctly. Could you please find it in your heart to tip 25% or even more? I have my eye on a new pair of jeans that cost $400."



Servers have one of the more lucrative position in most restaurants. I don't want to hear it.



posted on Apr, 3 2018 @ 02:27 PM
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a reply to: sapien82

What we are saying is that tips for wait staff ARE PART OF THE DEAL. Its not a secret or a random component to eating out.

If you apply yourself you can save a lot of money by making your own meals.

Leave the 10- 20 dollar tips to the big spenders.

You sound like you cant afford it. Dont eat where there is wait staff like you dont eat at 5 star restaurants.

You seem to not get the concept or cant afford it.

As far as people saying waiters dont work long hours....That depends on the person.

When I worked in hospitality I would constantly pull 14 hour shifts.

Didnt see my daughter for years beyond once a week. I live with her.

When I manged, bartended, or waited tables I would often open at 10AM and close at 4 AM on weekends. Weekdays 12 pm start, 2 AM close.

EDIT TO ADD:
Do you know why tips exist now a days? To drive up sales. You try selling complicated food and beverage items without motivation that make you learn French, how to cook, and how basic ingredients are made from scratch and come from.

Then learn the seasons, regions and methods of preparation for many types of fruit, vegetables and animals.

Then pair those with wine. Oh, learn everything abut wine and spirits. How its made, the regions, the processes and everything else in your menu /world.

Did you have to pass a written, oral and practical test for your job AFTER youre hired? Waiters do. Some go to academies for years and spend real money on their professional formation.

Every week many spend a couple hours STUDYING food and wine. Or they take weekend classes to touch up constantly.

Anything can be special, hard or basic. It depends on the details, like who is making it, and who is SELLING IT.

Oh yeah, dont forget the sales pressure daily to put that information to use to make money, while performing normal job functions. Quotas, goals and performance metrics and all that come bearing down.

Easy

Oh and smile.

edit on 4 3 2018 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 3 2018 @ 10:07 PM
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a reply to: tadaman

So you are saying it's cool for restaurants to pay staff below minimum wage?
I say bollocks.



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 06:16 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus


originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
If you had your hair cut by the owner of several hair salons would you tip them?


I do and I do.

You say that you have your haircut by the owner of many salons and you still tip - I wonder do you tip your surgeon if you have an operation?
edit on 4-4-2018 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 07:04 AM
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a reply to: tadaman

As I said I do tip every time I eat out unless the service was terrible and the food to match!

10% of the bill I believe is adequate.

but why should anyone have to tip for people doing their jobs!

like I said you dont tip your doctor , mechanic , hairdresser



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 07:22 AM
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originally posted by: Itisnowagain

You say that you have your haircut by the owner of many salons and you still tip - I wonder do you tip your surgeon if you have an operation?


Not many, just one, when she's not there I tip whomever is covering for her because I'm not a cheap bastard. And it's not customary to tip medical professionals.

But you kinda knew that before you made your strawman Captain Strawman.




edit on 4-4-2018 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 07:26 AM
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a reply to: tadaman

I'm curious....just how big is your avatar??

Your OP was fairly lengthy and it never repeated. How long of a post can you make without it repeating?



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 10:57 AM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

LOL

it goes on maybe 3 times as long as what you see.



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 10:58 AM
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a reply to: sapien82

Well, your doctor has his money in the bill.

Servers do not.



posted on Apr, 4 2018 @ 11:23 AM
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a reply to: tadaman

Well not in the UK doctors are paid a salary by the NHS ! they dont add their rate unless they are private
but tips arent a part of someones fixed salary !
my girlfriend works in the food industry and tips are not gauranteed part of their salary , you are just lucky if you get them!

I would normally charge £25 an hour for graffiti work , but I dont put a tip into the invoice !
I just charge for materials , my time , and any travel costs.

That was my point it appears to be the only industry where its expected!

ultimately when people tip they are doing so because its a social norm and you are made out to be frugal , or poor
if you dont pay tips m like you are a cheapskate
but you are just giving a tip for someone doing their job correctly , and that was the point
you dont normally tip anyone else yet its expected in the food industry.

Of course it could be completely different outside the UK.




edit on 4-4-2018 by sapien82 because: (no reason given)



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