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A question for the Evangelicites of ATS...and whoever else wants to chime in.

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posted on Mar, 30 2018 @ 10:07 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Sure, their appropriate for the church in America, and pretty much anywhere else there are back sliders, but not an appropriate teaching for people who haven't even been born again yet.




posted on Mar, 30 2018 @ 10:08 PM
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a reply to: Joecroft

How do we invite the Holy Spirit in to our lives?



posted on Mar, 30 2018 @ 10:14 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

No one is telling you how to follow your path to God or to lead others there.

To me it seems pretty clear that you believe in Christ and what He did and you need to establish that relationship with Him.

But it seems to me you ignore the purpose of the Holy Spirit.


Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
Acts 2: 38-39



posted on Mar, 30 2018 @ 10:20 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

That's because belief is just a tool. Some use it for strength, guidance, understanding, some use it as a crutch. The bible ks meant to inspire by giving greater merit or story line to your own personal quest, while also keeping you grounded with repetition of human moral authority.



posted on Mar, 30 2018 @ 10:24 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest



Originally posted by BELIEVERpriest
How do we invite the Holy Spirit in to our lives?


Good Question…but aren't you “The Priest” lol


You may get different answers to that question depending on whom you ask.

I would say we invite the Holy Spirit in, by seeking Gods truth with all our Heart, Soul and Mind.

God is looking for those who are genuinely seeking him out…IMO

- JC



posted on Mar, 30 2018 @ 10:28 PM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
What does it mean to, "let (or invite) Christ into your heart"? How is that in any way, an accurate representation of the gospel message? In my opinion, it's a rather abstract concept that opens the door to a lot of confusion and personalized interpretations.

I'm a believer in Jesus Christ. You can call me an evangelical if you want. You can call me a cab if you want. But I never did understand all this "invitation" business. Am I wrong to be confused?
No, you are not wrong to be confused...We hear the Truth by the preaching (and teaching) of the word...Some churches don't teach that concept and others deny the concept...

Since you are an Evangelical and weren't 'born into religion' you must know that at some time in your life, you made the choice to become a Christian...And as we know, when one becomes a Christian the person becomes indwelt with the Holy Spirit...

Bible says,
TextJoh_3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Just believing in Jesus is not the answer since,
Jas_2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. Text

So how do you get born again???


Luk_18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk_18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk_18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.


Rom_10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


TextRom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

You call on Jesus...You ask him to save you...That is inviting Jesus, The Holy Spirit, God, into your heart (body)...And he always says Yes...



posted on Mar, 30 2018 @ 11:28 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I think this idea came from verses found in the Bible, such as:




Ephesians 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,





Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.


And to accept the Light of Christ in places like this:



2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.


Accepting Jesus Christ "in the heart" is akin to saying you believe on Jesus to save and cleanse your soul and nothing else (no religion, no church, no politics, no king, no good works, no baptism, no predestination to election, nothing of yourself. )




2 Corinthians 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

This vail mentioned above is someone who does not believe and does not understand.



posted on Mar, 31 2018 @ 02:57 AM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest
Something I read on gotquestions.org regarding the question "Is it biblical to ask Jesus into your heart":

The verse from which the “ask Jesus into your heart” concept is usually taken is Revelation 3:20, “Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.” Notice, however, that the verse does not mention the heart at all. Neither does the individual ask Jesus to do anything; rather, Jesus asks us to do something.

So perhaps some people should be a little clearer as to what texts or bible teachings they are referring to when using that phrase. The bible does contain various other teachings about the heart though:

Search for God With Your Heart and Mind

...
Mind and Heart Cooperate

As mentioned earlier, true worship involves both the mind and the heart. (Mark 12:30) Think back to the illustration in the preceding article of the hired painter who used the wrong colors when painting a house. If he had listened carefully to his employer’s instructions, he could have put his heart and soul into his work and had confidence that his work would have the owner’s approval. The same applies to our worship.

“The true worshipers,” Jesus said, “will worship the Father with spirit and truth.” (John 4:23) Hence, the apostle Paul wrote: “That is also why we . . . have not ceased praying for you and asking that you may be filled with the accurate knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual comprehension, in order to walk worthily of Jehovah to the end of fully pleasing him.” (Colossians 1:9, 10) Such “accurate knowledge” enables sincere individuals to put their heart and soul into their worship with full confidence because they “worship what [they] know.”​—John 4:22.
...

In contrast...

...
Cardinal John O’Connor stated about the Trinity: “We know that it is a very profound mystery, which we don’t begin to understand.” Why is the Trinity so difficult to understand?

The Illustrated Bible Dictionary gives one reason. Speaking of the Trinity, this publication admits: “It is not a biblical doctrine in the sense that any formulation of it can be found in the Bible.” Because the Trinity is “not a biblical doctrine,” Trinitarians have been desperately looking for Bible texts​—even twisting them—​to find support for their teaching.

And they still can't puzzle together a coherent understandable explanation for it. "You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, ..." (John 4:22).
Source: Is Jesus God?

How to Love God With Your Whole Heart (Matthew 22:37) | Bible Teach
edit on 31-3-2018 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2018 @ 03:05 AM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Raggedyman

Wouldn't it just be simpler to say, "Turn away from your sins by believing that Christ died for our sins, and you are saved".

Short and simple. Very little room for interpretation, and it can easily be backed up by scripture.


Actually it isn"t as simple as that. And here's lies the big problem.

What differ a christian and non-christian is salvation through works.

To Christians, works mean you have to live by Jesus examples. Unfortunately, there is no universal agreement as to how to follow Jesus example. It"s not as simple as be kind to your elders or forgive your enemy etc.. There are more complex issue, such baptism, ritual, Jesus status, ideology such trinity etc... All this has a very profound impact on your life. Believing is one thing, but living the life of Christ is another thing. Without the heart, you will never be able to live up Jesus examples. This is what happen to majority of catholics, including their priest. They become hypocrites. They have faith in Christ and salvation, yet very few who actually acts in accordance to the scripture.

How to live up Jesus's life, is not a place for me to explain. So I leaves those question to Christians themselves.
edit on 31-3-2018 by EasternShadow because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2018 @ 03:22 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
It took me years, but I had my glimpse in a dream a year or two ago. It still brings tears to me eyes.

And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps disguising himself as an angel of light. (2 Cor. 11:14)

Not saying that I think that's the case here (and the phrase above is primarily meant figuratively, as the context also shows), I think you experienced exactly what you described, a "dream" (based on what's going on in your mind, just like other dreams).

Are Dreams Messages From God? Awake!—2001

...
What About Today?

Yes, God did communicate with some people through dreams. But the Bible indicates that this was quite rare. Dreams were never the principal form of divine communication. There were many faithful servants of God who never received messages from God in dreams. God’s use of dreams to communicate with man can be compared to His parting of the Red Sea. We know that he did it once, but that is certainly not his usual way of dealing with his people.—Exodus 14:21.

The apostle Paul acknowledged that in his day God’s spirit was operating on his servants in many extraordinary ways. Paul said: “To one there is given through the spirit speech of wisdom, to another speech of knowledge according to the same spirit, to another faith by the same spirit, to another gifts of healings by that one spirit, to yet another operations of powerful works, to another prophesying, to another discernment of inspired utterances, to another different tongues, and to another interpretation of tongues.” (1 Corinthians 12:8-10) Although divinely inspired dreams are not specifically mentioned, a number of Christians evidently received divinely inspired dreams as one of the gifts of the spirit in fulfillment of Joel 2:28.—Acts 16:9, 10.

However, the apostle said regarding these special gifts: “Whether there are gifts of prophesying, they will be done away with; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will be done away with.” (1 Corinthians 13:8) Evidently included among the gifts that would be “done away with” were the various forms of divine communication. After the death of the apostles, God ceased to impart these special gifts to his servants.

Today experts are still trying to understand the process of dreaming and whether it has a practical function. The Bible sheds no light on such issues. However, to those who insist on seeking divine communications in their dreams, the Bible does provide a warning. At Zechariah 10:2, it states: “The practicers of divination, . . . valueless dreams are what they keep speaking.” God also warns against looking for omens. (Deuteronomy 18:10-12) In light of these warnings, Christians today do not expect to receive divine guidance in their dreams. Rather, they view dreams simply as something experienced during sleep.

Jeremiah 23:25-28

“I have heard the prophets who are prophesying lies in my name say, ‘I had a dream! I had a dream!’ 26 How long will this continue in the heart of the prophets, to prophesy lies? They are prophets of the deceit of their own heart. 27 They intend to make my people forget my name by the dreams they relate to one another, just as their fathers forgot my name because of Baʹal. 28 Let the prophet who has a dream relate the dream, but the one who has my word should speak my word truthfully.”

“What does the straw have in common with the grain?” declares Jehovah.


edit on 31-3-2018 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2018 @ 03:43 AM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Raggedyman

Wouldn't it just be simpler to say, "Turn away from your sins by believing that Christ died for our sins, and you are saved".

Short and simple. Very little room for interpretation, and it can easily be backed up by scripture.



I think that is written all over the New Testament



posted on Mar, 31 2018 @ 04:44 AM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
But I never did understand all this "invitation" business.

Talking about Jesus' invitation:

What did Jesus invite some men to do? What did their reaction show?

Let us consider a situation that happened soon after Jesus told his followers to keep seeking first the Kingdom. This situation shows that it is possible to know what a person feels in his heart by what he puts first in his life. Luke tells us that Jesus firmly decided to go to Jerusalem even though he knew what he would suffer there later. While he and his apostles were on the road to Jerusalem, Jesus met some men and invited them to be his followers. Those men were willing to accept his invitation, but they wanted to do some other things first. One man replied: “Permit me first to leave and bury my father.” Another said: “I will follow you, Lord; but first permit me to say good-bye to those in my household.” (Luke 9:51, 57-61) We can certainly see a great difference between Jesus’ firm decision to do God’s will and the weak reaction of those men to Jesus’ invitation. They put their own desires first, and this showed that they were not willing to serve God with a complete heart.

Source: Maintain a Complete Heart Toward Jehovah

Prove to Be a Real Follower of Christ

“Every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit.”​—MATT. 7:17.

How are Christ’s true followers set apart from the false, especially during this time of the end?

JESUS said that those falsely professing to serve him would be distinguished from his true followers by their fruits​—their teachings and their conduct. (Matt. 7:15-17, 20) Indeed, people are inevitably influenced by what they take into their mind and heart. (Matt. 15:18, 19) Those who are fed falsehoods produce “worthless fruit,” whereas those who are taught spiritual truth produce “fine fruit.”

The two kinds of fruits have become clearly manifest during this time of the end. (Read Daniel 12:3, 10.) False Christians have a distorted view of God and often a hypocritical form of godly devotion, whereas those having spiritual insight worship God “with spirit and truth.” (John 4:24; 2 Tim. 3:1-5) They strive to display Christlike qualities.
...
Live by God’s Word
...
“Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens,” said Jesus, “but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.” (Matt. 7:21) Yes, it is not the professing of Christianity that pleases Jehovah but the practicing of it. For Christ’s true followers, that involves their whole way of life, including their attitude toward money, secular work, entertainment, worldly customs and celebrations, and marriage and other relationships with fellow humans. False Christians, however, adopt the thinking and ways of the world, which have become increasingly ungodly during these last days.​—Ps. 92:7.
...
Advocate God’s Kingdom

In regard to the Kingdom message, what contrast can be seen between true and false Christians?

Jesus said: “To other cities I must declare the good news of the kingdom of God, because for this I was sent forth.” (Luke 4:43) Why did Jesus make God’s Kingdom the main theme of his ministry? He knew that he himself as King of that Kingdom, along with his resurrected spirit-begotten brothers, would deal with the root causes of mankind’s woes​—sin and the Devil. (Rom. 5:12; Rev. 20:10) Hence, he commanded his followers to proclaim that Kingdom until the end of the present system of things. (Matt. 24:14) People who merely profess to be followers of Christ do not engage in this work​—in fact, they cannot. Why? For at least three reasons: First, they cannot preach what they do not understand. Second, most of them lack the humility and courage needed to face the ridicule and opposition that may result from sharing the Kingdom message with their neighbors. (Matt. 24:9; 1 Pet. 2:23) And third, false Christians do not have God’s spirit.​—John 14:16, 17.

Christ’s true followers, on the other hand, understand what God’s Kingdom is and what it will accomplish. Moreover, they give the interests of that Kingdom priority in life, proclaiming it worldwide, with the help of Jehovah’s spirit. (Zech. 4:6)






posted on Mar, 31 2018 @ 04:57 AM
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a reply to: ketsuko

But anointment (Christ) can happen without a "Jesus" name logos/idol. The opening to spiritual water to a higher degree and control of spiritual fire. In eastern philosophy Chi (the vibrating energy) and Kundalini (Heat energy that is released from the bottom of the spine).

The more chi in the body the more calmness and increased both deep thinking and deep emotions. And the body in increased awareness will get the spider sense to a higher degree knowing how to get to the core knowing of what happens beneath the surface. Synchronicity and low level telepathy follows.


edit on 31-3-2018 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2018 @ 05:05 AM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

To the OP (I didn't read the thread yet)

Look at it as "what programm do you want to load" after all we talk about an instruction for people who were used to archetypes as gods/-esses. We now get a lot to chose from with all the celebrities, people from our every day life, sport teams...
We lost every purpose. Because we now live pretty far from nature.
We have time to question and wonder about things now. And you can get very nihilistic very fast.
So what you do? Screw it right? Party as if it ends tonight.


edit on 31-3-2018 by Peeple because: Add



posted on Mar, 31 2018 @ 10:33 AM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest


What does it mean to, "let (or invite) Christ into your heart"? How is that in any way, an accurate representation of the gospel message? In my opinion, it's a rather abstract concept that opens the door to a lot of confusion and personalized interpretations.


Inviting Christ into your heart is the same as meaning to invite him into your life. I think there are two reasons why the term "heart" is used in communicating this message...

First, the heart is probably the first thing that comes to mind when Jesus says that he stands at the door and knocks. Revelation 3:20 - Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Secondly, many non-believers in the Bible are referred to as those with "hardened hearts". Our hearts need to be softened and open to receiving the message from the Holy Spirit that Jesus is indeed our Lord and Savior.

What does the Bible say about the heart?

www.gotquestions.org...



posted on Apr, 25 2018 @ 04:18 PM
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I agree with you 100%...

Accepting Jesus is NOT in the Word of God.


"Read the Bible as many times as you will, but nowhere does any person say this or offer this. Jesus never asked people to accept Him as a personal Savior to be saved. None of the apostles ever made this statement. No evangelist or any other preacher recorded in sacred writ ever uttered this sentence. It is not found in any of the epistles to the churches. It is simply just not there.

...a person must be alive spiritually to accept anything spiritual. What can a dead man do? Nothing! A person who is dead in trespasses and in sin (not born again) can not accept anything. He can’t hear the gospel, he can’t see, and he can’t respond. A person must be alive spiritually to receive spiritual things...

I find another problem, possibly more important than the rest which is this: how can a person say they have accepted Jesus when they have not accepted his doctrines, the Holy scriptures.

When it boils right down to what accepting Jesus really is, it is decisional salvation which means that a person is suddenly born again, and the blood of Jesus is actually and really applied, when a person makes a decision. LINK

  1. We don’t “accept” Jesus, He redeems and then accepts us.
  2. Jesus doesn’t enter our heart, the Holy Spirit does.
  3. I don’t invite Jesus into my life, He invites me into His.

First, there is nothing more arrogant than for us to assume that Jesus must earn or receive our “acceptance.” The truth is, “the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot” (Romans 8:7). In fact, “those who are in the flesh cannot please God” Romans 8:8). The truth is, you are either in the flesh or in the Spirit (Romans 8:5). There’s a direct contrast between the two, so to tell someone—anyone—that they have the capability to accept something to which they are hostile is foolish. It would be like telling the darkness to accept the light or a decaying corpse to accept life. It cannot. The miraculous truth is that God accepts us because of the finished work of Christ. The only option we have is to bow down in humble worship and gratitude because we have been accepted (Colossians 1:13-14).

Second, Jesus doesn’t enter your heart. I have two big, big problems with this claim. Of greatest concern is that it doesn’t say this anywhere in the Bible. Sure, Jesus is “with us always (Matthew 28:20),” but no where in the Bible does it say that Jesus lives “in our heart.”

“When I became a Christian I didn’t invite Jesus into my life, He invited me into His.” Jesus doesn’t join your life, your plans, and your purposes. You join Jesus’ life, plans, and purposes. The point is simply that you do not attach Jesus to what you already have going on as though He’s a simple accessory to be added to your wardrobe. Instead, we reorient our entire lives around Him. Jesus becomes our True North. Instead of living for ourselves, we lay down our old lives and live for Christ." LINK

Diabolical Doctrine 1) Accept Jesus as your personal Savior, and you will be saved

This is one of the most harmful doctrines preached in evangelical Christendom. It’s a reflection of our impatient, intolerant, self-willed “instant society,” another expression of sinful flesh preserving itself, finding a face-saving way to placate God, survive, and appear righteous before men. It is grossly harmful because it gives a false sense of security. It is a doctrine of devils.

This doctrine has people deluded into thinking they’re saved. And it’s a concoction of devils to draw more people into religious circles. Because many people believe this lie, others are persuaded it must be true. The notion goes, “Many are invariably right and few are most certainly wrong because they are few.” But God never worked, doesn’t work, and never will work that way. LINK

The Bible is clear that only those whose names are written (by God) in the book of life will be saved. And He does not write any names there that have not been washed from their sins by the Blood of His Son. God’s plan of how we are to be saved: the Blood of Jesus shed at the Cross of Calvary. LINK

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins." -Colossians 1:14

Hebrews 9:22, "...without shedding of blood is no remission. (forgivness )"

“Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! John 1:29

"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot."
-1st Peter 1:18,19

...and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin" (1st John 1:7).



More ATS links on Salvation...

A person does not become born again because they believe -- they believe because they have been born again
What REALLY happens when a person is born again?
How One Is Saved
We don’t “accept” Jesus, He redeems and then accepts us.
Accepting Jesus is NOT in the Word of God

WARNING:

Some of the above links go to thepathoftruth.com which has some MASSIVE errors. This simply is because of the massive deception and infiltration that has taken place throughout history. Because of these errors, I no longer recommend the site.


edit on 4.25.2018 by Murgatroid because: Felt like it...



posted on Apr, 25 2018 @ 05:10 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I highly recommend that you listen to MP3s from the "Lancaster Prophetic Conference"

I drive all day for a living and I have been doing this for a week now and so far it has had a huge impact on me.

In fact one of the MP3s I listened to said exactly what you just wrote about salvation in the OP.

I don't remember which MP3 exactly but it was from either 2013 or 2016 as those are all I have listened to so far.



posted on Apr, 25 2018 @ 05:35 PM
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a reply to: Murgatroid

Thank you for the wealth of information. You always give me something to think about. I was looking through the links you provided. I will say, that per John 3:16-21, and Matt 16:17, salvation is both a matter of choice and election. In fact, I believe there is a stable duality between both election and freewill.

God reveals the truth to the individual. Faith comes from hearing the word of Christ (Romans 10:17). If the individual is content with darkness, he will not believe, therefore, he has been judged already (as God already knows our hearts). If the individual is not content with the darkness but seeks the light, he will believe, and thus will be saved (John3:19-21).

I just wanted to say that, because the links you posted seem to imply that the individual has no choice in the matter. I think if freewill is nullified, then redemption loses its value.



posted on Apr, 25 2018 @ 07:02 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Thanks...

Concerning the citations about choice and freewill, I tend to agree with you on that.

Sometimes I will cite a quotation that I have not studied for years and this was one of those times.

That also reminds me of one of my favorite films (The Encounter).

Below are a few lines from the transcript (Jesus speaking):


That was his last chance.

If there's a downside to being God, it's knowing.

I reach out to them with everything I have, but I know.

I just know.

And I am the good shepherd, the good shepherd who lays down his life for the sheep.

The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy.

I am the good shepherd and I know my own.

And my own know me.

My sheep hear my voice and I know them.

And they follow me.

No one shall snatch them from my hand.






edit on 4.25.2018 by Murgatroid because: Felt like it...



posted on May, 1 2018 @ 11:01 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

What if not inviting is a small but consummately observed barrier of free will?

If its Christ its always clean and safe.

Christ doesn't coexist with strife.

Invite.


edit on 1-5-2018 by yughii because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-5-2018 by yughii because: (no reason given)




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