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NEWS: Should Kids Be Graded on Weight

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posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by saturnine_sweet

Using a system to aid parents is unnecessary, I think, but not harmful, but BMI should not be the system, because it has the potential to be harmful.




IMO - it is harmful. It does not acknowledge the role infectious disease plays in causing obesity - and sets the stage to re-instate Eugenics laws. We're talking forced sterilisation, incarceration and "mercy killing."


Obesity and Mad Cow Disease



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posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by saturnine_sweet
My primary concern with this is that the BMI index isn't always terrible useful. Since age 13, according to BMI, approx. 1/4 of my body weight has been "overweight." Meaning, for example, I currently weigh 240, and according to BMI, I should weight 180-190. Seeing as how I am 6'4 and have a large build, if I were 180-190, I would be dangerously underweight.

'ideal wieght range' is based on age and height.


BMI is all good and well if you are between say 5' and 6' tall(or for a child, average height for your age), with a small or medium build.

Most people are normal, thats the definition of normal. At the extremes the thing is less effective. People will merely have to be aware of that.


BMI will label them fat, no matter how fit and trim they are. Using a system to aid parents is unnecessary,

if a gym teacher can take one of those calipers and pinch of a couple of inches of fat from your ankles, you're fat.

There's a problem in the US with obesity. Its a serious health problem. It occurs in lots of children now. All kids are required to go to school. The problem can be at least addressed in schools. For the very few children who simply don't 'chart' properly on the BMI or any other scale, well, then their scores can be adjusted or it can be explained why their scores aren't as relevant. Whats it matter, since they're not going to work fit and healthy kids to death anyway right? And as far as 'psychological disorders' like anorexia nervosa and the like, those are real problems too, but keep track of a person's weight and keeping them in a healthy range is not going to increase that. Too heavy, and the kid needs to make adjustments. Dangerously skinny, well, you can id it and have the kid start seeing a counselor.

and now words of wisdom on the subject from The Onion

www.theonion.com...
With obesity among children rising steadily, health experts say our school's physical education programs are woefully inadequate. What do you think?


"You know, sex burns a lot of calories. Teens love sex. I can't see why no one has thought of this before."


Brilliant.



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 11:42 AM
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Obesity most often results from infectious disease - it's been linked to Mad Cow-like prions for years. Now, most cases are passed on congenitally. That's why obesity is epidemic in children.

Obesity and Mad Cow Disease


Also see:

Disease of Environmental Origin in American Children

Genes and the Environment

Birth Defect News

"Many Diseases May Begin in the Womb: A growing body of evidence suggests that poor nutrition, stress and other factors can affect a woman's developing fetus in subtle but fundamental ways, predisposing offspring to health problems as adults. These include heart disease, diabetes, stroke, cancer, obesity, and possibly psychiatric conditions such as schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and depression."



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posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by Jemison
I feel that school should focus on educating my children.


I think that is exactly the point. The BMI is an educational tool that when used in conjunction with the school, the parents and the children, coupled with other health and physical education, can orient children toward a lifetiime of wellness.

Unfortunately, the school systems use government guidelines for nutrition to teach kids about how to eat.
And, the USDA pyramid is partly responsible for the insulin resistance and obesity in this country.

Also,I was under the impression that at least some schools no longer have P.E. classes? I went to a small, Catholic high school MANY years ago.. The phys ed we had was a laughable excuse to exercise
, but at least we had a little exposure to exercise.



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 12:06 PM
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I'm all for kids living and maintaining a healthy lifestyle. It's obvious that obesity is not a small issue and is now the 2nd leading cause of heart disease. With that said, if we put a BMI grade on a report card, without holding the teachers accountable for thier BMI, what is this saying? When I went to school, it was full of Obese teachers. Hell, I even had an overweight Phys Ed teacher.

On top of that, these kids have to take that BMI report card home to mom and pop who are 50 lbs overweight themselves??? WTF?!?!? If you really want to see some radical changes, put the parents and teachers on a BMI grading system. Why would the kids want to take responsibility for thier weight when thier 300 lb Economics teacher can barely stand up for more than 15 minutes at a time?


[edit on 17-2-2005 by mpeake]



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by mpeake
I'm all for kids living and maintaining a healthy lifestyle.




Me too. But we need to recognize that the obesity epidemic reflects a larger underlying infectious epidemic. ...Very often, obese people can NOT do anything about being obese - they have prions attacking their fat cells or "lipids."


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posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 12:42 PM
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Saturnine is right. BMIs are horribly inaccurate. At 6'0" and 220 pounds I look good and can outrun 9 out of 10 people in any run longer than a mile. Of course for my height 220 is supposed to be horribly overweight, regardless of what it looks like on my particular frame.
They have "morbidly obese" people who look like sumo-wrestlers, and they can run the Iron Man Triathalon.
Arnold Schwartenegger failed a BMI because he's got too much muscle mass.

Another standardized test isn't the answer, and that's what the BMI is. We have to teach kids healthy habits.

Serve salads and lean meat instead of the nasty concoctions of low-grade ground beef, cheese, and tomato sauce which make up every school lunch item from tacos to pizza.

Require students to bring a plastic bottle full of water every day so they wont get in the habit of being dehydrated, which is a common problem.

Institute a home-workout program with prizes just like the home reading lists kids do. Kids go home and do a maximum set of jumping-jacks, pushups, and crunches, and their parents sign off on it. You chart their progress, then periodically you test them to see if they can actually do as many as they say and you give them a reward for making progress.

If you have a couple of volunteer teachers, set up a 20 minute before or after school calesthenics program.


Things like that will help a hell of a lot more than some meaningless number that just upsets parents and kids. If I were running a school I'd order my teachers to white-out that number before mailing report cards. It's not illegal as long as its actually there.



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by mpeakeI even had an overweight Phys Ed teacher

I thought all gym teachers have to be either overweight or lesbians? With some over acheivers opting for both?



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by soficrow
[]hey have prions attacking their fat cells or "lipids."

Lipids are not fat cells. Fat cells contain fats, which are made up of chemicals that invovle lipids. Just to be a little exacting anyway.


the vagabond
Another standardized test isn't the answer, and that's what the BMI is. We have to teach kids healthy habits

Heck, drop the testing all toghether and just make them go thru a 60 minute excercise period each morning of school. Start school 60 minutes earlier too.



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by mpeakeI even had an overweight Phys Ed teacher

I thought all gym teachers have to be either overweight or lesbians? With some over acheivers opting for both?


HA!
I think you're right. But I did have one PE Teacher who was ultimate physical specimen. Mr. Dillard. 50 yrs old and was stronger and faster than the top athletes he taught. He was only 5'11'' and could dunk too...at 50!



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 02:06 PM
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Well, er, uhm. Maybe he was a lesbian! Yeah, that should work out.



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
Well, er, uhm. Maybe he was a lesbian! Yeah, that should work out.


He wasn't, but the girls phys ed teacher was



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by soficrow
[]hey have prions attacking their fat cells or "lipids."

Lipids are not fat cells. Fat cells contain fats, which are made up of chemicals that invovle lipids. Just to be a little exacting anyway.




Picky, picky.



Nygdan's right but even his explanation is incomplete. The real description involves proteins and pathways and gets way complicated. Sometimes shortcuts are... easier.


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posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 05:16 PM
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Is putting the BMI on a report card supposed to be a substitute for an annual physical? Last I checked, children were supposed to go to the doctor at least once a year--isn't it more appropriate for doctors to deal with health issues rather than a school?

But perhaps these kids AREN'T going to the doctor, and I don't think that it always because of negligence. As of 2003, there were over 27 million children in this country that were without insurance, and even more that have insurance that doesn't cover wellcare or that have high deductibles that would only allow lower income families to go to the doctor for a severe illness. And I'll bet that there is a high correlation between poorer kids that don't get annual physicals and overweight.

What will the net effect of putting a BMI on the report card be? Parents that are taking their kids for regular checkups already know about their childs weight situation, so it is not aimed at them. It is really for the parents of kids that don't get regular check-ups--and is arming these parents with a number and some pamphlets really going to help or will it potentially do more harm? What is the role of the dietician--are parents of overweight kids going to be required to have a consultation with this person?

Many adults are clueless when it comes to nutrition--especially the parents of overweight kids. How do you think that these children became overweight in the first place? It is assanine to expect that a number on a report card is going to suddenly turn a parent who abused their child with food into a weight loss expert.

Many parents will turn around and blame the child for being fat instead of blaming themselves for not providing a good example, making high-calorie meals, and/or just not paying attention. You will have situations where a kid's father will nickname him "Fatty" and force-feed him McDonald's salads (which have more fat and calories than some of their burgers) and then punish him when he doesn't lose weight. Other times, a mother may think that switching to 2% milk may make a difference or that just because her chubby daughter is eating "Healthy Choice" cookies instead of Oreos, she will slim down. These poor attempts at dieting will result in weight gain--because of poor food choices and because of frustration.

So does this mean that nothing should be done? No. But the emphasis should be on finding an affordable way to getting this kids to the doctor on a regular basis--reasonable health care that covers wellcare visits. Beating them over the head with a BMI that they aren't going to know what to do with is just rubbing salt in the wound.

And someone also mentioned the issue of information abuse. Right now, these school administrators have good intentions, but what about a few years later when the school districts need money and Nutrisystem and Jenny Craig come calling with lucrative offers to buy mailing lists of overweight kids for much needed large sums of cash? Also, there is a clause in the "No Child Left Behind" act that will refuse funds to any school that does not furnish a child's private information to the military for recruiting purposes. Considering the proposals for children's mental health screening that are currently on the table, the profile that could be developed for a child could be pretty thorough. It's not a stretch to assume that health information would also be accessed for special government projects or studies. Do you want your kid profiled and targeted for such things?

www.familiesusa.org...



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by lmgnyc
Is putting the BMI on a report card supposed to be a substitute for an annual physical?

But perhaps these kids AREN'T going to the doctor, and I don't think that it always because of negligence. As of 2003, there were over 27 million children in this country that were without insurance, and even more that have insurance that doesn't cover wellcare or that have high deductibles that would only allow lower income families to go to the doctor for a severe illness.

What will the net effect of putting a BMI on the report card be?

And someone also mentioned the issue of information abuse.

Considering the proposals for children's mental health screening that are currently on the table, the profile that could be developed for a child could be pretty thorough. It's not a stretch to assume that health information would also be accessed for special government projects or studies. Do you want your kid profiled and targeted for such things?

www.familiesusa.org...






All excellent questions.



Good job lmgnyc.


Bottom line: Who wants all this information - and why?


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posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 05:52 PM
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They're looking for one more way to steal our insurance and access information on how better to exploit us. Plain and simple.

Why aren't kids seeing doctors? Because they've already made such good headway in the field of medical capitalism and we can't afford it. I'll never go to the doctor again as long as I live. They charge you about 1000 bucks for a few stitches on your hand. Next time I get a serious cut it's gonna be superglued shut!

The whole deal about collecting stats on kids is pretty scarry.

I don't know how to tell you folks this, but your son has an extremely high risk of early heart attack according to genetic screening. He will probably not live a full career- um i mean life- and under the new Some Children Left Behind act we don't provide education beyond 10th grade for people who are not viable corporate assetts. We've arranged a job at Walmart for him.



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 06:58 PM
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Well if this bill passes, showing that people are actually starting to get serious about child obesity ( btw I dont think this bill is a good idea, too damaging to a childs self esteem, especially at the middle school/high school ages where kids are so sensitive to critisizim, and likely already think they're overwheight even if they're not.)
then I want to introduce a bill to be passed. Lets close down the fast food franchises! Lets pass a bill that orders people to cook at home 5 days a week.
What good does it do to tell a parent that their child is over weight when Fast food garbage is being brought to the table for the majority of dinners because the parent/s work too late/ are too unmotivated to set healthy food on the dinner table.
This is a silly idea all in all. The public realizes that there is a problem with our childrens weight. Until the public gets serious about changing the eating styles of america that wont change.



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 08:27 PM
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Sofi, okay, I don't understand this. Are you saying the prions cause something that makes you eat more?
Let's say that is the total problem.
Isn't that telling people to go ahead and eat what they want, as much as they want, because it ISN'T their FAULT?
Are you saying that proper eating habits wouldn't cause them to lose weight? That exercise wouldn't help?

From what I know about eating disorders, or should I say overeating, their insulin levels are totally confused and awry. They are addicted to carbohydrates.
Is this different from the prion issue?



Originally posted by soficrow
Very often, obese people can NOT do anything about being obese - they have prions attacking their fat cells or "lipids."



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 10:39 PM
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When i was a Kid at School we used to do exercises before classes, play lots of sport, ride bike or walk to school, chase one another in general have a good time and most of all eat the right foods if parents could afford it. Today Kids little exercise, no sport, get driven to school, sit on arse at school and home playing with computers watching T.V....and eating fast foods & take aways a lot of the blame is society today, and Parents or Parent who should know better. Lazy little Bustards, Give em a good feed of STEAMED LIGHTLY Spinach, Cabbage, Brussel Sprouts etc there body will thank you later in life, and less visits to the Doctors......



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