why do we as a people even tolerate religion?

a reply to: Xtrozero

Or 6 billion people who refuse to accept there own destiny.

originally posted by: andy06shake


Or 6 billion people who refuse to accept there own destiny.

I would argue that to have religion IS to be human and to think about the human race without religion would mean we do not have what makes us human in the first place.

I'm sorry to say that religion is here to stay...We might one day call it something else but the concept is not going away.

The reason is that humans in general live in the abstract world. You could not even make your breakfast this morning without abstractly making it first. Everything around you was once an abstract thought in the first place.

GUESS WHAT RELIGON IS, its an abstract thought too just like the big bang, your breakfast was, all the stuff the guy talked about in the first train car... Just because we can turn abstract thoughts into concrete items doesn't take way they were all created from nothingness in the first place.

So the bottom line here is to take away religion means we would need to also remove our abstractedly thinking process too, and that would not be good.

I wouldn't hit religion too hard, it was the driving force for a very long time that pushed man up the food chain. Religion was the "what If" to ancient scholars that fueled much of our knowledge though at times it might have been wacked a little (flat earth as example) huge gains was due to religion. Also as bad as religion may seem at times humans have been typically worst without it.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I dont eat breakfast.

Dont get me wrong, each to there own, as i imagine religion gives people peace of mind.

Not so much a driving force through, as a collection of control constructs, designed to facilitate the priest classes and keep the status quo in place.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: [post=23756616]

Not so much a driving force through, as a collection of control constructs, designed to facilitate the priest classes and keep the status quo in place.

I can think of many other non-religious human controlling motivators too...

You ever think about that maybe humans at the society level needs controls? When I think about Pol Pot that took a country that was relatively calm and in a few short years killed a few million and changed schools that once taught children into death torture camps where the school children did the torturing leads me to think humans need controls...

a reply to: Xtrozero

"You ever think about that maybe humans at the society level needs controls?"

You mean like the Orwellian controls we now have in place regarding our own respective nations?

No i dont to be honest, simply down to the fact that absolute power corrupts absolutely.

And that's what there type of security and, cough, cough, freedom equates to.

School weans torcher each other on a daily basses, so is it any wonder really?

Never read "Lord of the Flies"?

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Xtrozero

"You ever think about that maybe humans at the society level needs controls?"

You mean like the Orwellian controls we now have in place regarding our own respective nations?

No i dont to be honest, simply down to the fact that absolute power corrupts absolutely.

And that's what there type of security and, cough, cough, freedom equates to.

School weans torcher each other on a daily basses, so is it any wonder really?

Never read "Lord of the Flies"?

Seems many different levels in everything right? A free nation to Orwellian as example, BUT all religion is about control...right?

Seems we have the same thing there too as far apart as my example above, AND more importantly once religion takes on a political nature we can stop calling it religion even though it might keep that name.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Its always about control, our religions of old and there methods of control have simply been supplanted by a new style of such.

Mass media is the new religion and the many different faces and opinions the new cathedrals of today's age.

Politics and religion, just like organisation and religion, seldom mix well together, which is not to say we dont stir the pot with the lot of them i suppose.

originally posted by: andy06shake

Politics and religion, just like organisation and religion, seldom mix well together, which is not to say we dont stir the pot with the lot of them i suppose.

I still feel no matter what, the human race needs a moral compass of some kind. I don't think we are the top of the food chain because we a nice loving animal. You know that alien race that goes to a new planet and rapes, pillages and plunders all its resources and eats anything that move is actually us and I think religion may have been the only thing slowing us down from going full retard. I say this no matter how bad religion may seem or how corrupt humans make religion it is still better than what we would have today without it. Remember that religion is outlawed in a Orwellian society. They don't want competition and without a moral compass as a foundation you get the worst atrocities of the human race.

Xtrozero:

I'm sorry to say that religion is here to stay...We might one day call it something else but the concept is not going away. The reason is that humans in general live in the abstract world. You could not even make your breakfast this morning without abstractly making it first. Everything around you was once an abstract thought in the first place.

Ah yes, but there is rational abstract thinking (such as what to have for breakfast), and utterly irrational abstract thinking (such as religious faith in a god of some form). I tend to be very cautious and suspicious around the latter, and I won't tolerate it impacting on me in the slightest manner.

So the bottom line here is to take away religion means we would need to also remove our abstractedly thinking process, too...

That does not equate at all. Do you realise what you are actually stating, because I am damn sure you don't! You are stating that without religion, no one can think in an abstract way. That is so absurd, it staggers the mind that you had the ignorant gall to state it. Americans state so much bull#, thinking that what they state has credence. Did you not do comprehension at school?

In the last analysis, especially in the modern world, religion is toxic. It is a blight and a block upon rational thinking.

a reply to: elysiumfire

"In the last analysis, especially in the modern world, religion is toxic. It is a blight and a block upon rational thinking. "

Religion is what created the Modern world, especially the science.

Isaac Newton. Berkeley. Priestly.

The founders of science were deeply religious men. The modern research-oriented university is modeled on Harvard, a seminary for American protestant clergy.

Modern, scientific beekeepers happened because a protestant minister in America thought it was only righteous to use our God-given rationality to study bees. His name was Langstroth, and he single-handedly created the modern beehive, instead of using an overturned basket, that hadn't changed since ancient Egypt.

.

a reply to: Xtrozero

But there might have been 7000 years of peace and prosperity for our race without religion.

Just about every war and conflict humanity has ever fought had can be linked to organised religion, or has some form of religious connotation behind such, or reinforcing the conflict and wars.

Think how far science, technology, and socioeconomics could have progressed in the last 7000 years without war or religion holding us back?

We could quite possible be out there amongst the stars by now truth be told.

to still have some traditional dresses. because in the future everybody will wear similar things but religious people will keep their costumes in their religious meetings.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Xtrozero

But there might have been 7000 years of peace and prosperity for our race without religion.

Just about every war and conflict humanity has ever fought had can be linked to organised religion, or has some form of religious connotation behind such, or reinforcing the conflict and wars.

Think how far science, technology, and socioeconomics could have progressed in the last 7000 years without war or religion holding us back?

We could quite possible be out there amongst the stars by now truth be told.

The 10 deadliest wars in Human history are all non-religious events, most 25 million to 100 million...Russia under Stalin 50 to 100 million, China industrial revolution 100 to 200 million.

Can't say humans are better without religion...lol

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Xtrozero

But there might have been 7000 years of peace and prosperity for our race without religion.

Just about every war and conflict humanity has ever fought had can be linked to organised religion, or has some form of religious connotation behind such, or reinforcing the conflict and wars.

Think how far science, technology, and socioeconomics could have progressed in the last 7000 years without war or religion holding us back?

We could quite possible be out there amongst the stars by now truth be told.

The 10 deadliest wars in Human history are all non-religious events, most 25 million to 100 million...Russia under Stalin 50 to 100 million, China industrial revolution 100 to 200 million.

Can't say humans are better without religion...lol

and they wouldn't acknowledge it and blame it solely on religion, smh

a reply to: Xtrozero

The second world war had religious connotations behind it, the Vatican knew all about what the Nazis had in store for the Jews same with what Stalin got up to.

Religious cleansing and mass genocide via proxy is still genocide.

Religion played a role in Nazi Germany also, but as with so many other aspects of life in the state, religion became the property of the government.

To be honest i don't really know that much about China's industrial revolution aside from the fact that the monks and priests of the nation did not fare to well, connotations again through are pretty obvious.

Far as i can see you allude to ten deadly wars in Human history that are non-religious events(Love the way you describe mass genocide as an "Event" by the way! ) and only really touch upon one plus accompanying cold war afterwards. LoL

Wheres the other 9 that you are also mistaken about?

originally posted by: andy06shake

The second world war had religious connotations behind it, the Vatican knew all about what the Nazis had in store for the Jews same with what Stalin got up to.

The religious connotations is that the catholic church decided to ignore it all... As for Stalin he outlawed religion....

To be honest i don't really know that much about China's industrial revolution aside from the fact that the monks and priests of the nation did not fare to well, connotations again through are pretty obvious.

The greatest mass genocide in human history....

Far as i can see you allude to ten deadly wars in Human history that are non-religious events(Love the way you describe mass genocide as an "Event" by the way! :dn

and only really touch upon one plus accompanying cold war afterwards. LoL

Wheres the other 9 that you are also mistaken about?

Not sure your question...Christian crusades was more about land grab than religion but anyways 500 years of that and Pol Pot did about the same in a few short years.

You can look them up but Three Kingdoms War was about 1800 years ago, Germanic Wars was about 1600 years ago, Yellow Turban Rebellion was 1800 years ago, Mongol conquests 800 years ago, An Lushan Rebellion 1300 years ago, 10 wars since 1800s not much religion in them....lol

a reply to: TinySickTears

Simple answer?
Because religion is the home of intolerance...
Edit to add: While most people who are logic orientated tend to be tolerant of other ideas regardless of how stupid they are...

a reply to: Xtrozero

And in none of those wars did the participants kill there enemy in the name of and/or to the glory of which ever God they worshipped?

"The religious connotations is that the catholic church decided to ignore it all... As for Stalin he outlawed religion...."

And who prospers by, cough, cough, ignoring the Nazis?

Certainly not the Jewish faith.

Same with Stalin's mass genocide, as the Holy Roman Church of St Peter dont exactly like the competition aka the eastern orthodox patriarchates and again the Jews. The Vatican pretty much sponsored the bastards whilst offering up token gestures of condemnation.

The Christian crusades were indeed about a land grab, and about power, same could be said about the Mongol conquests but at least they tolerated, to a fashion anyway, a multitude of different religions.

All wars are about religion and power, religion equates to power over the people, by a select few, that claim to know the will of God.

Its there agenda that they kill for, God has nothing to do with it, just Man with all his fears and fallibility, unwilling to take responsibility for his actions.

Which is where religion and God come in rather handy i imagine aka out puts a Bible or two.

Rinse and repeat really. LoL