why do we as a people even tolerate religion?

a reply to: Wookiep

Id never want you to not have that. And hope it brings you peace.

Isnt that really the whole point? A system whereby people live in peace?

a reply to: DanDanDat

religion suppressed knowledge for a long time

people getting prosecuted for heresy and # like that

i think religion has done more to hold us back than to advance us

en.wikipedia.org...

I think people take solace in knowing there is a higher power looking out for them when things are down. Having faith can save a person when everything looks lost. That can be a wonderful thing.
I just let religion be. It's not for me to judge those who believe.

originally posted by: rhynouk
I think people take solace in knowing there is a higher power looking out for them when things are down. Having faith can save a person when everything looks lost. That can be a wonderful thing.
I just let religion be. It's not for me to judge those who believe.

i agree man
the extent of me not letting religion be is discussing it on the internet
as much as i personally pretty much despise it i am fascinated by it. i also kind of envy people with faith because it does seem to comfort them and they 'know' where they are going when they die and they are at ease with that.

i am pis scared of dying because i feel like it is all going to be a big nothing

a reply to: TinySickTears

Maybe it isnt. Maybe you rejoin with the universal consciousness or something.

Thats no less scary as it is still loss of "you".

I think its less us who are afraid, and more our egos. If you can make any sense out of that.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

for me its scary because i cant comprehend it.
nothingness.
not existing.
what does that feel like?

the answer is nothing but i still try to attach something to it that i will understand.

Epicurus has a cool quote

Death does not concern us, because as long as we exist, death is not here. And when it does come, we no longer exist.

that i try to find comfort in but i dont.

originally posted by: TinySickTears
a reply to: DanDanDat

religion suppressed knowledge for a long time

people getting prosecuted for heresy and # like that

i think religion has done more to hold us back than to advance us

en.wikipedia.org...

It's a chicken and egg thing on that point.

It could be argued that religions caused many wars which drove the technology of warfare which finally put people on the Moon. No religion = no spacesuits. Or that religions united (forced or not) regions and from those millions of followers arose the institutions of education and healthcare. I mean without regional stability nothing gets done apart from surviving, right?

People need a critical mass to get their # done and who's to say religions weren't necessary for progress?? Maybe they were glue?

At the same time, I've often wondered if religions are also a cloak for people to hide behind. Invade countries whatever. Just don't go playing like it's God's Will when its only greed and power. Steal from the poor and take your chances. Don't go acting like the TV preachers who hide behind God's cloak. Call a thief a thief. Gutless, ruthless politicians are always quick to play the God card and most of them are more like a Judas or devil than anything Holy.

Aye it's a tough topic for 200 word posts on the internet.

a reply to: Kandinsky

Someone on another thread said something like, "they pulled man out of nature to cut stone, and put him in a tax bracket". It was an interesting comment.

What was that stone for? Temples. Who are "they"? The religions.

Religions exist mostly out of the traditions of a culture.

I had not even thought about circumcision until the birth of my son.

I had a deep and serious discussion with my husband declaring no circumcision. The pediatrician gave all the reasons why circumcision was aa good thing. My husband said he would feel out of place in "the locker room." I was in a very bad way after his birth and quite ill. But I did fight against it; but felt defeated in that everyone said to do it.

The day they did it I heard him crying and asked if he was given something for the pain. When I told no I went crazy and since I couldn't leave my bed demanded they immediately bring him to me with something to alleviate his pain. Anger has never left me. The guilt has never left me. Most midwesterners did circumcise so I guess he fits in.

So glad my second child was a daughter.

Modern life is making people ask more questions about religious traditions and science is at least giving us answers to many earlier unknowns about this life; but nothing about after this body quits on us.

Raised very religious, studied and taught religious classes when I was much younger. I'm part of the "I don't know and doubt anyone does either."

Religions are traditions. Blind faith supports the religions. Some people want to know more and question traditions; some don't. When one thinks they're "right" and the only faith; that's the catch-we need to stop all the proselytizing and judging and just let people be. We won't achieve true freedom until we truly "live and let live."

originally posted by: TinySickTears
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

for me its scary because i cant comprehend it.
nothingness.
not existing.
what does that feel like?

A good sleep that you don't wake from.
I'm comfortable with that.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

There's an historical pattern. The first City States actively introduced religious tribalism because it elevated their kings into Godheads and simultaneously rendered the populace into obedience. It was a great idea to solve 'management' problems.

It's all comparable to organised crime imo. The Church paid lip-service to Royalty and they in turn would protect them in their kingdoms.

I asked God for a bike, but God doesn't work that way. So I stole one and asked God for forgiveness.

Michael Corleone

a reply to: Justso

i am a world away from the person i was when my son was born.
i was 18 then. 40 now.
i got him circumcised without question. the only reason was i didnt want his baby bird to be ugly. i wanted it to look like me.

i just didnt think about it any other way.

i was so young and stupid. not just with that but a thousand other things. i love my son and supported but # man... i had no business being a dad. i wasnt a bad dad to him but i feel like he got the raw end of the deal vs my daughter who was born when i was 34.

Hello All.
Created an account due to this thread. Thanks OP.

Allow me to say, I have been down 3 different paths of beliefs/non-belief. 5 years ago there came an awakening of my heart in a manner completely different than anything ever before. A lot of wrong/evil things has been done by man in the name of “religion”. And the “power” of religion has definitely been used by man to control and gain power. I am a Christian, I am not religious, I am a follower of Christ. Those that care to say I’m brainwashed, or “have” to live by a certain set of rules do not understand Christianity. It is a deep personal relationship. I had no man coercing me to belief a certain way or thing, no one holding it over my head threatening me, it was Christ and the Holy Spirit that changed my heart. Religion is “tolerated” as much as it is now due to several factors, men who wield it as a sword, indoctrination from birth, governmentally imposed and accepted, many factors, but that is not a true relationship with our Creator. The true relationship with the Creator of our universe is still “tolerated” because it is His creation. Those claiming that they wouldn’t worship or want to know/love a God that lets this or that happen, I’d suggest a book by A.W. Tozer - Knowledge of the Holy. It’s not that God “let’s” this or that happen, it’s man that allows certain travesties happen or the evil of sin which is behind it. I’m willing to converse more with anyone who would like to, though I don’t claim to have any or all answers, the least of which is why the rabbi’s continue to follow the tradition which is mentioned in the opening of the thread.

a reply to: TinySickTears

First, let me say that i totally understand the disgust you have with things done in the name of religion, like the rabbi you mention.

However, to answer the general question.

I admit to going through a phase where I would have thought the elimination of religion was a good thing. Not only becuase I thought (rightfully so) that atrocities were done in its name, but that it was just logically wrong.

However, I had my opinion changed by some people, including Jordan Peterson.

Here is an excellent video of him discussing religion.



Its very complicated, but a big part of it that there is more than scientific truth. Science only tells us what things are, where religion tells us how to act.

In other words, science can not give you a sense of morality.

Religion is the culmination of the stories that are ancestors told of the heroes of their day. Then the amalgamation of all of those stories ends up with a story and characters that are the archetypes of the traits and behaviors that these people found most admirable or detestable.

The key is to not be too dogmatic, but to not also throw all of that knowledge out as worthless.

Now of course, anyone can take these stories and do bad things in their name.

But it is an interesting idea, and I think Petersons thoughts on this are very good.

His disciples said to him, "Is circumcision useful or not?"

He said to them, "If it were useful, their father would produce children already circumcised from their mother..." Thomas Verse 53

a reply to: Grambler

i will watch that.
i think i have seen it but most of the time when i have rogan on unless he is talking specific things at specific times its on in the background and i am multi tasking.

i dont think you need religion to have good morals though.
i think that is pretty clear because there are people like my boss who are life long follower that have a totally #ed up moral compass. he likes to pat his chest and say god lives in here but he also likes to talk about how the pussy fags are ruining america and he debates poking holes in his soon to be ex wifes condoms.

for me its also not only about all the # i think is terrible like the rabbi thing.

for me it simply does not make sense. it does not seem logical so it all kind of falls apart.
i see people like my boss that choose to believe so much he cant write the number 666 then he does things like i mention

it just does not make sense
the story of it
from the very beginning.
in 7 days god created everything
adam and eve
the rib thing
water into wine
the burning bush


just all of it from there very jump seems like the most illogical and incorrect thing ever.

again these are just my opinions but ive always felt this way.
my level of disgust has changed over the years but for as long as i could remember its always just seemed like a joke.

even when i was a kid i would think to myself

'people believe this #'

what really cemented it for me though was when i was 10 my mom and dad split. when i was around 13 she hooked up with my step dad. we moved across the country and oh wait... he was a half a pentecostal. so all of a sudden it was important i give church a try.
so from nothing to now i am in the pentecostal church. people are talking in tongues and #. holy spirit type stuff.
really opened my eyes to the bull#

a reply to: TinySickTears

My story is very similar to yours.

I got stuckl in a pentacostal church.

I was a kid, I wanted to learn about religion, yet was just talked to in tongues and gibberish.

I was told not to ask questions.

Here is one example.

I was told in my church that becoming angry is a sin. Not acting on that anger, but just being angry.

I was also taught that Jesus was without sin.

So I asked why then is getting angry a sin, when Jesos goes into the temple and flips the money changers table for desecrating the chucrh.

I was told, and I am not kidding, "You are too smart for this"

So I get it.

But give that lecture a listen.

He explains why religion is kind of like are universal subconsious trying to connect with each other thorugh drama.

Its the same idea why just about every culture in all of their stories follows the same archtypes; from gilgamesh, to the bible to The Avengers to Harry Potter; the same archtypes.

He also decries the dogmatic behaviors that do terrible things in the name of religion.

a reply to: Grambler

i will listen but i must say that while i despise religion and do not understand it i am fascinated by it and i educate myself.
i have books on islam and judaism as well as the bhagavad gita

i like to educate myself about it even though i detest it

i also have a thing for religious art.

i have pictures and painting in my house of jesus and other religious scenes even though i put zero stock in it

its pretty weird

Let me just reassure you of one thing, your boss is the typical, bad example, hypocritical bullsh—-ter “religious” person that is everything displayed that gives “religion” a bad name. The non writing of 666 is his “religious” ego/pride, saying I’m better than you because, oh look, I refuse to write the “sign of the beast”. That’s all crud.

To be honest, I find it truly hard to belief or imagine a creator, or a God or Jesus as a savior. Our human intellect is not at a capacity to even fathom that. We can’t even fathom the size of the universe, in front of our eyes daily, or eternity. It is not in our capacity. It is through the relationship that the unthinkableness of it all is made acceptable.

Gambler - your video is good, he makes good points, but he is thinking too much. 15 years ago I would have bought it Hook, line and sinker. But he’s putting too much weight on his intellectual capacity. He has limited his self to what he’s intellectually able to fathom over the course of his 40 years of thought on it.

There is true freedom in Christ, and far be it for me to say perhaps other “religions” also, but for sure in being a follower of Christ. The chains of bondage are broken, yet it is a bondage that most of us deal with on a daily basis, so they have to be broken on a daily basis. I read the Bible early in life and again throughout my life, as I was passing judgement on it and it’s accuracy. It always confused me and could just never buy into it. My childhood consisted of loosely being raised catholic. It never made an impression on me, and it was more of a practice in memorization just so I could pass whatever part of catechism I was in at the time. We never really attended church on a regular basis, and once I left home at the age of 16, I completely turned my back on what little religion I had up to that point. Joined the military and remember running around at times saying I was the anti-Christ and laughing about it. Later in life, with some of that same mindset, I felt a calling that there was more to life than just the day in / day out life I was leading (not bad by any stretch of the imagination). I began seeking. I was very much in line with concepts much like gamblers video posting, some foundational truth in all religions, but organized religions (Christianity specifically) had it wron, was too exclusive and was a construct to control the masses. As I mentioned about 5 years ago, I had a different type of awakening in my heart. I discovered that as I went back to the Christian Bible, the stuff I had at one point thought was gibberish, manipulated texts, started taking on an entirely different meaning, and a more deep and profound message was being delivered (by the way, that is talked about in the Bible). At that point, Christ came into my life, and through Him, my relationship to the Father has deepened to a point that is unbelievably freeing and fulfilling. Am I better than anyone else, absolutely not. Am I smarter, not even close. Am i changed, in every sense of the word. Is it easy, not even close. But is it fulfilling, absolutely, today, tomorrow and hopefully whatever that thing they call eternity is.

originally posted by: TinySickTears
a reply to: Grambler

i will watch that.
i think i have seen it but most of the time when i have rogan on unless he is talking specific things at specific times its on in the background and i am multi tasking.

i dont think you need religion to have good morals though.
i think that is pretty clear because there are people like my boss who are life long follower that have a totally #ed up moral compass. he likes to pat his chest and say god lives in here but he also likes to talk about how the pussy fags are ruining america and he debates poking holes in his soon to be ex wifes condoms.

for me its also not only about all the # i think is terrible like the rabbi thing.

for me it simply does not make sense. it does not seem logical so it all kind of falls apart.
i see people like my boss that choose to believe so much he cant write the number 666 then he does things like i mention

it just does not make sense
the story of it
from the very beginning.
in 7 days god created everything
adam and eve
the rib thing
water into wine
the burning bush


just all of it from there very jump seems like the most illogical and incorrect thing ever.

again these are just my opinions but ive always felt this way.
my level of disgust has changed over the years but for as long as i could remember its always just seemed like a joke.

even when i was a kid i would think to myself

'people believe this #'

what really cemented it for me though was when i was 10 my mom and dad split. when i was around 13 she hooked up with my step dad. we moved across the country and oh wait... he was a half a pentecostal. so all of a sudden it was important i give church a try.
so from nothing to now i am in the pentecostal church. people are talking in tongues and #. holy spirit type stuff.
really opened my eyes to the bull#

a reply to: TinySickTears

Few years ago a really bad tornado flattened Moore Oklahoma, it was all over the news and Fema's response was covered pretty well. What the national news agencies did not cover was that tornado savaged a few small towns in the state as well, and Fema barely glanced at those places the assistance was delivered in large part by religious groups and some state agencies.


At least in Tornado alley churches are often the first to arrive at a disaster with food, medicine, water, and clothes for the people that just lost everything.

They also quite often have food banks for the poor to use, or run some sort of program to help the homeless.

I am not a big church guy but after being stationed in Louisiana, Oklahoma, and South Dakota and seeing what good they do for people it changed my tune on why we put up with them.