why do we as a people even tolerate religion?

a reply to: badw0lf

Wow, that was a really good and weirdly satisfying response. I need a smoke now.

You just don't want to go back to heaven because you would be bored out of your mind. But you are not quite at the point of admitting you love this reality. Soon, very very soon.

a reply to: TinySickTears

I get what you're saying though. Belief in god as an individual and intimate thing, is fine. We all have some belief in things. I do believe in paranormal things, but not an afterlife. I do believe that negative energy, remains where it was most experienced. As does positive energy. But not a different form of ourselves where we meet passed relatives and friends. No pearly gates, no tunnel and white light. NDE's are just that, near death. Where the brain is oxygen deprived or has a sudden influx of a certain tryptamine known to cause blissful journeys to where the soul is one and without connection to any existing attachments. But that's all it is, in my opinion.

But the individuals belief is one thing. It's the indoctrination of others, making them often zealots in the process, and the inherent corruption within it, that makes religion in my mind, more a cult than a spiritual gathering. Where people go to be brainwashed and have affirmations of their group belief set recited from a podium, and rituals enacting fables are performed to further disconnect the congregation from rational thought.

Religion fosters indoctrination and if that does not succeed, then segregation. Not all followers are like that, sure. But they're also the ones more likely to hold more of an intimate spirituality than feel part of a cult.

It is, after all, the goal of all main religions, to spread far and wide into every land...

Matthew 28:19-20 NKJV
“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

I think it’s a disgusting and perverted tradition in this day and age. Not knowing why it even ever started I looked into it. It seems there was a valid reason way back before the days of medicine and microscopes. It was a way to remove any blood, and from worry about clotting/decay - and what they thought of at the time as: phlegm, yellow bile, and black bile, and that stagnating blood decays.

In fact, any “mohel” (the person who performs the Jewish rite of circumcision) that didn’t do the sucking was recommended to be fired as it was dangerous for the baby. Cumin was then applied to the incision.

So, apparently there was a medical reason for the ritual. Personally, I believe that it has no place in this day and age and men should decide for themselves if it is something they need in their lives. It is as personal a decision as can be.

However, some traditions fail to die and often it’s a failure of a culture to move on.

However, in 1836, Rabbi Elazar Horowitz noticed that all the babies, some of which died, all were affected by the same disease - and had been circumcised by the same mohel. To make a long story short he consulted with a doctor friend who devised a new, more modern way of circumcision that didn’t require any mouth involvement. And Rabbit Horowitz wrote to the most important rabbi of the day who said it was fine to disregard the ancient way of circumcision. So - there is no reason to follow the tradition at all.

Info obtained from: www.haaretz.com...

originally posted by: ClovenSky
a reply to: badw0lf

Wow, that was a really good and weirdly satisfying response. I need a smoke now.

You just don't want to go back to heaven because you would be bored out of your mind. But you are not quite at the point of admitting you love this reality. Soon, very very soon.

You're on to me !! I knew it !!



ETA:
(actually, I don't mind this reality. Bit more than I did a year ago. Funny how not imbibing those ugly tasting things changes perspective I still think it's for nothing though. But it's got it's moments!! And there is nothing like a sudden and horrifying 3 month long existential crisis, to make you appreciate things a bit more, at least some things, when you come back..lol)

a reply to: TinySickTears
You have to remember that religion has been around for thousands of years. Think about the world, say 2,000 years ago, when Jesus was crucified (according to scripture). People weren't educated to today's standards. People needed guidance in how to behave. To worship something great and awesome kept people from devolving into barbarians. Part of religion teaches the believer to fear the higher power so if you don't live right, you'll live in eternal damnation.

Should we we be past all that by this day and age? Maybe, but we aren't. We're more educated but our instincts haven't changed much. In fact, because religion is on the decline in the western world, I can see a difference in todays generation from mine as I was growing up. I grew up without the church but my mother was very strict when it came to morals. I was taught to respect other people and be considerate so you can't just do whatever you want. That's definately missing today.

On the flipside, it's unfortunate that throughout history, people got so carried away with what they believe, they forced it on others to the point they were (are) willing to kill someone that doesn't believe as they do.

Human nature hasn't changed though. Look at politics or global warming. If we weren't civilized, I can think of quite a few people who would go back to beating the crap out of those that don't agree with their point of view.

It's complicated.

originally posted by: LogicalGraphitti
Should we we be past all that by this day and age? Maybe, but we aren't.

What's the point of having a tradition that you just dump because it's no longer fashionable? The whole point of traditions is to impose a level of consistency on the chaos of the world. When something horrible happens and you don't know where to go, or what to do, church is an option. It's always there.

a reply to: TinySickTears

now having said that i want to say that i feel like religion is one of the worst things that has ever existed or 'happened' to humanity.
i think it divided more than it brings together
i think it breeds more hate than love ....



It's like ..... water.. It's good, then you add flavors, then sugar, then carcinogens and pretty soon it is not water but someone's recipe for their own product/possession. Religion is a lot like that with competing factions vying for members and numbers and institutional possessions.

Pure Christianity has been adulterated since AD 33. Lots of agenda's, but do you believe in Jesus Christ, and all he said ? You blame Christ or God for all the evil that arises from the deceit/agenda/lies spread since forever.

But it's moot, either you have faith, or 'want' to have faith or you don't. There are many good and wonderful people that are atheists or agnostics. Be wary about the 'word of man' and .......well..

John 3:16 KJV. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

This is the foundation of my Faith. If you can not come to that same conclusion, no one will force it on you. It will come if it is meant to be.

Because everyone has their own delusions... for some, they just want a set of shared delusions as well, for the community of it. Also harder to be snapped back to reality when everyone around you also believes the same fantasy.

Religions are self-propagating laziness memes, where the effort of thinking for one-self is replaced with a ready-to-order smorgasbord of morals, spiritual paths and life guides.

Any challenge in life?...taste the flavour of your chosen religion, and there is an answer ready for you... maybe a bit one-size-fits-all in many cases, but that's okay, as we're going for the masses with group think, not the individual. Great when you're part of the masses.

Spirituality?... Done... God did it!... time to get on with the important things in life, like making babies and fixing the back patio.

a reply to: Blue Shift

times change. traditions fade.
traditions can also be wrong.
we grow smarter. we learn.

we realize that certain traditions are barbaric and total bull#...

again this is just my opinion.

and logical we absolutely should be past it

It's also about shared tradition. Tradition is often the stubborn adherence to stupidity in the face of all evidence for the sake of the "strong community" and point of difference.

Barbaric mutilation practice?... It's ok because we've always done it. If it was good enough for your ancestors, it's good enough for you. It's what makes us, us.

a reply to: puzzlesphere

but certain things only cause its tradition.

if you were to do this to even your own child your ass would be locked up
if a medical doctor did that after performing it his ass would be locked up

but a rabbi in a house is cool?

apparently it is but i just dont get it
i never will. i understand the idea of religion but when i dig in it just all reads as crap to me

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: LogicalGraphitti
Should we we be past all that by this day and age? Maybe, but we aren't.

What's the point of having a tradition that you just dump because it's no longer fashionable? The whole point of traditions is to impose a level of consistency on the chaos of the world. When something horrible happens and you don't know where to go, or what to do, church is an option. It's always there.

I never mentioned tradition. My arguement was about religion.

A. The belief that there is Supreme
being, Creator God with an infinite
Intelligence that is obvious in the
In the design we see everywhere in
our existence. By free will people
everywhere in the world find favor
with this possibility. Many forms of
religion generate from this basic idea.

B. The belief in nothing more than chance
and coincidence to the power of infinity.
Where if this turns out to be the case?
It could only be perceived to be a greater
miracle than all the miracles of the
testament put together. The entire canon
even.

Any questions?

For the most part I see religious folks breaking down into 2 groups: simple minded folks, and folks who need moral support. There are other types, like the true believers who have an experience.

I just don't want to take something so important away from folks who believe. I rarely discuss my viewpionts because i don't want to tell adults who still need santa that santa doesn't exist. Besides, it usually doesn't matter because people identify as their religion, and will ignore you.

My mom is religious, but is much less so after living with me the last 6 years.

Its scary to think that when you die, its over. Folks have a real hard time with that one in particular.

There is also the thing that we're not tolerating them, they're tolerating us. They are in the majority. In the past, you had to hide your beliefs (or non-beliefs) away or they'd just as soon kill you to allow God to teach you the error of your ways. We like to think that we're the enlightened ones and all those other people are simply fools, but that's also what the liberals thought before Trump got elected.

In all of human history, we're lucky to be around at a time and in the right part of the world where the religious aren't dragging us out and setting fire to us.

Maybe because it adds structure in day to day life and a certain sense of fidelity in community, or the mob/pack mentality, or conformity. Communals, Assemblies, and Masses of the masses. And yet, the fear of a wolf in sheep's clothing still lingers on a theology of where ignorance is bliss.

How could one destroy that beast without becoming one ourselves?

We solved the religion problem by inventing our own. We have rituals, traditions, dances, sacraments and a collection basket.

We have a stage band playing our own style of liturgical music while we dance like crazed monkeys; sometime naked, sometimes with robes and masks. The congregation is a motley group of artist, pole dancers, film people, drunkards and students of the absurd.

Deacon Jones owns a beer joint where the services and rituals are conducted. This is open to open minded adults, park your car down the street and you must check you firearms at the door. Other than that...no rules, no limits and no excuses.

Praise Bob....friday is $1.oo taco nite.

Uncut and proud.
Circumcision is like saying Gawd made a mistake that needs correcting by men who suck blood from mutilated baby penises.

Yuck.

why should I begrudge some little old lady who gains a bit of comfort from saying her rosary?

Because that little old lady supports evil people that take advantage of the stupid masses to enable war, corporatism and oppression.

And who doesn't fill the air with poisonous vapors and cover the earth with trash incessantly, or make their brother stumble or devise their own crafty ways to advantage...? a reply to: CB328